The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[Chiche]

Me again I do not know vicsinad, but why so much aggression aimed at him, must ONE totally agree with all the MTO leaders beliefs???

[Risto the Great]

First, your biases and state-of-mind led you to negate one of my very first posts, for which you "agreed with my conclusion."

Nice. What a shame you don't agree with your self.

"the identity and existence of a people can never be negotiated"

Macedonians presently cannot self-determine matters on culture or ethnicity which are at the very core of identity and existence. Macedonians in Macedonia need ethnic Albanians to agree on these matters in a manner which violates the rights of Macedonians. That is Badinter in a nutshell. So your article was in fact meaningless fluff when taken in context with your proven and disturbing mindset.

The rest of your points were merely helping paint a picture of your beliefs. But they can change from time to time.

[Vangelovski]

-I believe the only "right" the Badinter Principle gives to the Albanians is to veto certain matters in Parliament. Yes, I am okay with that.

That fact that you support the Badinter Principle in the Framework Agreement is one of your key anti-Macedonian triats. It is an anti-Macedonian provision in an anti-Macedonian agreement. In fact, its also an anti-democratic and racist provision and fundamental in upholding special privileges. You're the only one that hasn't yet come to terms with this fact.

[vicsinad]

That will always be the case. However, the morsels of intent you have blessed this forum with include the following:

- You wanted people to vote for your father as a Diaspora candidate of the SDSm party. (Followers to this party walk around with Serb flags)
- You think there is nothing wrong with playing Serbian or Greek music at Macedonian events. It doesn't degrade the Macedonian identity. You like Serbian music.
- You think the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia deserve the rights afforded to them under the Badinter principle.
- You don't like the OFA but believe the Badinter principle is not the problem with it. You have never explained the reason why you don't like the OFA other than to say Badinter is not the problem.
- You identify "a time where Vardar Macedonians stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers" and cannot seem to understand how that has effected the modern Macedonian identity.

Not sure if there is much more, but this kind of what we have on the plate about you.

My "state of mind" tells me that you are Macedonian but would best serve Macedonia's interests by staying out of matters pertaining to sovereignty for the Macedonian people. You will only confuse them with serious doses of wishywashyness.

First, your biases and state-of-mind led you to negate one of my very first posts, for which you "agreed with my conclusion."

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5553

Try being a little more objective.

Second, point by point:

-Yes, my father would have been an excellent representative. Sure, some SDSM followers walk around with the Serb flags, some VMRO members walk around with the Bulgar flag, and most politicians are inept or corrupt. However, most Macedonians from Macedonia that vote (and the Diaspora) either fall under SDSM or VMRO, and to state that being a member or supporter of either of those party already means that your Macedonianism should be question is ridiculous. My father has done much for the Macedonian Cause and to promote Macedonian culture, and of course I wanted to give people the option to vote for him.

-That is not accurate. I said I don't care whether Macedonians play Serb or Greek or whatever music at their own private family events. In addition, I said I wouldn't play anything but Mak music at my events. And yes, I like some Serb music like I like some Croat, Bosnian, Spanish, Italian and Russian music. However, I have been totally against things like playing Serb or other music at Macedonian parties and conventions.

-I believe the only "right" the Badinter Principle gives to the Albanians is to veto certain matters in Parliament. Yes, I am okay with that.

-That's because the MTO has an inability to proceed in discussions without attacks and insults. Yes, calling me anti-Macedonian is an insult.

-Yes, I think many Macedonians in Vardar Macedonia stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers. The basic fact is that Yugoslavia tried to Yugoslavianize the people, not Serbianize. The other basic fact is under Yugoslavia, Macedonians had it "relatively" good compared to Macedonians in Bulgaria and Greece.

All that said, I stand by what I said then, and what I said now.

[Risto the Great]

That is only part true. (Mis)Judgement of character is also formed from the biases and state-of-mind the reader or evaluator brings to the assessment.

That will always be the case. However, the morsels of intent you have blessed this forum with include the following:

- You wanted people to vote for your father as a Diaspora candidate of the SDSm party. (Followers to this party walk around with Serb flags)
- You think there is nothing wrong with playing Serbian or Greek music at Macedonian events. It doesn't degrade the Macedonian identity. You like Serbian music.
- You think the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia deserve the rights afforded to them under the Badinter principle.
- You don't like the OFA but believe the Badinter principle is not the problem with it. You have never explained the reason why you don't like the OFA other than to say Badinter is not the problem.
- You identify "a time where Vardar Macedonians stopped looking at Serbs as occupiers" and cannot seem to understand how that has effected the modern Macedonian identity.

Not sure if there is much more, but this kind of what we have on the plate about you.

My "state of mind" tells me that you are Macedonian but would best serve Macedonia's interests by staying out of matters pertaining to sovereignty for the Macedonian people. You will only confuse them with serious doses of wishywashyness.

[George S.]

Does not apply to bs artists who do not admit who they are.They are out to deceive other people.State of mind is you were hallucinating on a identity drug that you were an albanian to us but according to you dressed in macedonian clothing.So whatever you did was a wasted space & time.In other words you are bloody clown & fool to boot.

[vicsinad]

Remember, in this arena, judgement of character is formed from the views conveyed within the contents of your posts.

That is only part true. (Mis)Judgement of character is also formed from the biases and state-of-mind the reader or evaluator brings to the assessment.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Fair enough.

Remember, in this arena, judgement of character is formed from the views conveyed within the contents of your posts. Right now, the views you have conveyed within the majority of your posts justify questioning the validity of your character and how such ideologies ultimately conflict with the idea of a free and independent Macedonia for the Macedonians.

If this was not your intention, then I suggest you take a moment of reflection and think through the logical conclusions of your future statements so as to define what you stand for. Once you feel you have, then I would say the majority would be happy to take into consideration your opinion on a more serious level, after all, like I mentioned before, Macedonians need to start to learn to understand one another if we are ever going to evolve and survive as a people.

[MKPrilep]

When visiting Bulgaria, in particularly major holiday destinations , one is able to view dozens of TV channels from all of Bulgaria's neighbors. The only channels missing (scrambled) are those from Macedonia.

And in Macedonia you can see Bulgarian channels all the day
and you have bulgarians nights in clubs, mostly in eastern-macedonia
(strumica and so on).

[Chiche]

Fair enough.

[Tomche Makedonche]

A Person who wants peaceful dialogue should not be abused because he has not yet been accepted. Lads I come in peace

So did the Bulgarians, Greeks, Serbians, and usually all Macedonian traitors. Therefore please forgive and be accepting of those Macedonians who have sought to learn some valuable lessons from the past by no longer limiting their judgements of a person’s character on face value alone.

[Chiche]

"Chiche, you really sound pathetic'

AGAIN, WITH ABUSE!!!
All I ask is don't call our people names!!! I have stated I do agree with you all that the Government of the Republic of Macedonia is wrong, the UMD may also have some errors in their ways.

A Person who wants peaceful dialogue should not be abused because he has not yet been accepted. Lads I come in peace

[Vangelovski]

George does have a very good point. Lets not kid ourselves. Macedonian politicians are amongst the most morally corrupt, self-interested, plainly stupid and inexperienced in the world. Every word and action that comes out of them is a testament to this, let alone the gigantic anti-Macedonian F up's they have made and continue to perpetuate. The only thing I'm unsure about is whether their lapdogs in Macedonia and the diaspora are worse.

[Risto the Great]

George makes a point about controlling minorities in Bulgaria. Bulgaria managed to gain EU entry without offering disproportionate rights to (for example) the ethnic Turks of Bulgaria.

Macedonia is always jumping through hoops to satisfy other nations and/or organisation's desires for political experiments. Macedonia has agreed to these to it's own detriment every time.

[Risto the Great]

Lad you cannot awaken a nation by abusing its people, get real! they will turn on you, the Abuser!!!

Chiche, you really sound pathetic. There is mob called UMD who have repeatedly changed their ideology and tried to present themselves as the voice of the entire Macedonian Diaspora. Join them. You should be able to relate to them.

I'm sick and tired of Macedonians who think they have some superior knowledge when in fact all they rely on is principles like:

"Macedonia is and always will be"
"I know what I am"
"We had no choice"

Chiche, you are a Macedonian sheep. The type that Goce Delcev was talking about. You will never facilitate change. If you are lucky, you might evolve. But I don't think so. It would be a pleasure if you did.

This forum (for me) is meant to challenge the "we have no choice" mindsets and hopefully offer some kind of empowerment to Macedonians who feel as though they are victims. Not everyone is a victim. Just "lads" like you.