Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[makedonin]

Reading this, I got a mental image of Elmer J. Fudd trying to outwit Bugs Bunny. Just saying.

was trying to point out the stupidity of theirs.

It is not my real opinion on the issue! just for the record.

[Makedonetz]

Enough Is Enough!

Rasmussen: bold decisions needed to resolve the dispute
Unlike the notion of NATO Secretary General that there is a willingness to resolve the dispute, Gruevski said that after the last meeting with Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has not seen a willingness on the Greek side solution

It takes courageous political decisions of all parties involved in negotiations on the name in order for Macedonia to join NATO. With such a message came yesterday in Skopje, NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen. With such a message came yesterday in Skopje NATO Secretary General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen.Before the first official visit to the country, Rasmussen his account of the social network Facebook, wrote that the invitation to Macedonia for NATO membership will be activated as soon as they settle the dispute with Greece.

After the yesterday's meeting with Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, he called for quick settlement of the dispute, without mentioning the November summit as possible to receive an invitation for membership.

We encourage Macedonia and Greece to agree and soon find a solution. Macedonia will say and repeat that it is ready to join NATO, but must resolve the name issue. Macedonia will say and repeat that it is ready to join NATO, but must resolve the name issue. We encourage both sides to continue negotiations. We encourage both sides to continue negotiations. We are pleased by the commitment of Macedonian peacekeepers in the Alliance. We are pleased by the commitment of Macedonian peacekeepers in the Alliance. Continue with the reforms and will soon be part of NATO - said Rasmussen. Continue with the reforms and will soon be part of NATO - said Rasmussen.

Unlike his impression that there is a willingness to resolve the dispute, Gruevski said that after the last meeting with Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou has not seen a willingness on the Greek side solution.If there was good will they would have had the solution - said Gruevski, who stressed that NATO remains a priority for Macedonia.

So there is no progress to resolve the name dispute, despite information in Greek media that the two sides are close to the decision which should be expected this summer, said last speakers of the Greek Deputy Foreign Minister Dimitris Drucas in the Greek Parliament. He told Greek lawmakers yesterday praised the Greek diplomacy has achieved success in recent months because it prevented the EU threat to allow commencement of negotiations with Macedonia without resolving the issue. He told Greek lawmakers yesterday praised the Greek diplomacy has achieved success in recent months because it prevented the EU threat to allowcommencement of negotiations with Macedonia without resolving the issue. This danger, according Drucas are created by the decision of the European Commission recommended the start of negotiations with the country. This danger, according Drucas are created by the decision of the European Commission recommended the start of negotiations with the country.

In the last few months we managed to make a turn. Now the pressure is not carried out on Greece, but only on the Skopje - Drucas boasts floor to the Greek Parliament. Now the pressure is not carried out on Greece, but only on the Skopje - Drucas boasts floor to the Greek Parliament.When asked by the President of LAOS party ultradesnicharskata George Karadzhaferis whether possible solution is "Republic of Vardar Macedonia" Drucas responded that is meaningless to talk about names when Gruevski is not ready for serious negotiations.
No sense and against our interests is to negotiate among themselves, when Gruevski remains stubbornly to his - he estimated.

Drucas: Gruevski referendum hiding behind public opinion

The insistence Karadzhaferis, Greece to hold a referendum on the name, address Drucas he is not afraid to take responsibility, as did Albanians.
We all know that Mr. Gruevski wants to hide behind the public opinion of his country. Systematic encourages its followers of extremism, the voters have represented our country with negative stereotypes and joyfully announces that it is against a decision and then hiding behind the verdict of the people - Drucas said. Systematic encourages its followers of extremism, the voters have represented our country with negative stereotypes and joyfully announces that it is against a decision and then hiding behind the verdict of the people - Drucas said.

[b] When is gruevski going to realize greeks are not democratic when it comes to negotiations. Clearly their wanting to drag this out just like they have done with Turkey in EU relations,

"When asked by the President of LAOS party ultradesnicharskata George Karadzhaferis whether possible solution is "Republic of Vardar Macedonia" Drucas responded that is meaningless to talk about names when Gruevski is not ready for serious negotiations."

These people must be Tupani na Glavoto because apparently they dont understand politics and do what they do best is pussy foot around everyhting.

[makedonche]

Quote:-
"This is a thread on "News and Politics" of the Macedonian Truth Forum, Makedonche. The fact that a Greek newspaper said something about Macedonia is both "news" and "politics" as far as I am concerned, disregarding if we support it or not."

johnMKD
This is neither news nor politics, this is a game the greeks keep playing in order to keep Macedonia suppressed. There are two ways to put this fire out - douse it with cold water or stop feeding it and it will die down.
Every time we engage in banter about this non-existent dispute we feed it, why not declare it doesn't exist, refuse to capitulate and ignore it! Instead of coming up with alternatives, suggestions, different names, different solutions - if no problem exists then no solution needs to be found! The very moment you begin to engage in any type of discussion you have become part of the problem! To say it's ok we're only talking about it gives the problem credibility- gives it a life of it's own. This problem Greece has is exactly that, Greece's problem, we need to stop feeding it and giving it credibility!


Btw - this is the macedonian truth organisation, not the Greece has got a problem forum!

[Stojacanec]

We shoud refrain from using the word dispute. Because the word dispute means at least two people have a problem.

Consider this:
If I come up with same dilluded idea that someones face is green for example and they protest to me that it is not. We are NOT in dispute, moreover I have a mental problem. The word is problem not dispute.

The Greeks have a problem with our name therefore the term of reference should be in ALL cases " The Greek Problem with our Name".

[fyrOM]

Makedonce you say this is a game the Greeks keep playing in order to keep Macedonia suppressed and maybe it is but is it a non-existent dispute and if no problem exists then no solution needs to be found. Then why don’t we just go to the eu or un meetings with a badge Republic of Macedonia and throw away our old badge at these forums. Oh yeah.. I remember now…last time Macedonia did this they closed the door on them. When there is empty space infront of a person he usually can walk forward but when he comes to a wall he needs a solution even if his neighboure put up the wall. I would suggest to you that to make it This problem Greece has is exactly that, Greece's problem you need to discuss it as it is your problem.

[johnMKD]

It is truth that the problem should not be existent in the first place, but since it does Macedonia needs to stand out and face it. This is the major problem Macedonia is faced up these days and in fact half of the threads of this forum discuss this, fair enough. My goal was to publish this rediculous article and to bring it in everybody's attention. The name of the thread was the name of the newspaper article, and NOT my personal of course.

[makedonche]

Makedonce you say this is a game the Greeks keep playing in order to keep Macedonia suppressed and maybe it is but is it a non-existent dispute and if no problem exists then no solution needs to be found. Then why don’t we just go to the eu or un meetings with a badge Republic of Macedonia and throw away our old badge at these forums. Oh yeah.. I remember now…last time Macedonia did this they closed the door on them. When there is empty space infront of a person he usually can walk forward but when he comes to a wall he needs a solution even if his neighboure put up the wall. I would suggest to you that to make it This problem Greece has is exactly that, Greece's problem you need to discuss it as it is your problem.

OziMak
No I don't, because I don't have a problem - the greeks have a problem! I don't intend on making it my problem therefore I have no need to discuss some racist/facist ignorant countries problem by entering a debate/discussion/compromise that they have conjured up. my view is simple, I am Macedonian, my language is macedonian, my country is the Republic of Macedonia (part of it), my culture is macedonian, my religion is Macedonian- it's that simple, it's not up for discussion or negotiation or trade in return for entry into any club or association! Should you wish to negotiate your name or identity or the name of your country by all means feel free to cop it from behind, but don't come to me and bitch after you've compromised and you aren't happy with the outcome. If you don't agree with a name change then say so and stand up and fight for it!

[julie]

ABre Makedonche, taka e!

[Vangelovski]

Makedonce you say this is a game the Greeks keep playing in order to keep Macedonia suppressed and maybe it is but is it a non-existent dispute and if no problem exists then no solution needs to be found. Then why don’t we just go to the eu or un meetings with a badge Republic of Macedonia and throw away our old badge at these forums. Oh yeah.. I remember now…last time Macedonia did this they closed the door on them. When there is empty space infront of a person he usually can walk forward but when he comes to a wall he needs a solution even if his neighboure put up the wall. I would suggest to you that to make it This problem Greece has is exactly that, Greece's problem you need to discuss it as it is your problem.

OziMak,

Why? Why does Macedonia NEED to find a "solution"? WHAT do you think will happen if Macedonia does not find a "solution" and WHY?

[makedonche]

It is truth that the problem should not be existent in the first place, but since it does Macedonia needs to stand out and face it. This is the major problem Macedonia is faced up these days and in fact half of the threads of this forum discuss this, fair enough. My goal was to publish this rediculous article and to bring it in everybody's attention. The name of the thread was the name of the newspaper article, and NOT my personal of course.

johnMKD
I understand it isn'tyour view and yes it is a topic of many discussions on many threads, but are we giving it too much creedence? Would'nt we be better off discussing it as "greece's problem". and help them find a cure to thier mental dillusions

[julie]

NATO can shove it where the sun dont shine
Am sick and tired of RoM being dictated to by non entities to change their sovereignty to appease HellAss.
When is RoM going to stand up and shout NO to all of your resolutions and renaming of our people, they are blatantly discriminating against RoM and yet gladly accept Macedonian soldiers in Afghanistan for their own materialistic gains, to die under the guise of NATO
am tired of HellAss, EU and NATO, these are the country clubs that are dictating my beautiful name must change for entry. The only entry RoM is receiving from these organisations is a rear entry one with their stupid insistence in negotiating

[Stojacanec]

I could swear I was in a time warp. I think I've read the same article years ago !!

[Rogi]

Makedonetz, please also paste the link to the source of the article.

[fyrOM]

Do you really think that if we end everything with a flat out No today that tomorrow everything will continue as business as usual.

Do not necessarily assume the word solution means compromise. It could but not necessarily. What I’m saying is it is useless to just say it’s the greeks problem and we don’t need to say anything. It is like being accused of a crime you know you absolutely did not do but some circumstantial evidence is being levelled against you which others are believing. The attitude you prescribe is perfict if there was no consequence of the accusations. But if the accusations are now preventing you to do what you want in life then you need to take some kind of action to create free passage for you to do what you want. Inaction is just standing still. Then what action should we take. Declairing to the world the name issue is a greek problem and anybody who doesn’t like it can go jump also has reactions. Multiple joices with multiple outcomes. Which do we prefer. But there always are repercussions. Your points seem to ignor this.

In any thread where I have posted in relation to the name issue I have never suggested any compromise is suitable and nor am I about to begin to. I think the only change I have said that I could not think of a reason against was the Democratic Republic of Macedonia. There can never be a compromise because as we all know it is not just about a name but our very identity and everything that goes with it. This is a huge issue and I absolutely hate people from other countries who trivialise it and say bold decisions need to be made for the good of the country.

The government is on the right track in playing along to put reforms through and modernise the country. I get the feeling many of you know the outcome you would like and being raised in countries where you have the right to demand your rights you think in terms of right is right but in the un popularity also plays a big part. The problem with the governments actions are that one day the hard word will be put on them to follow through. While the reforms were going on a convenient excuse existed to put off a final decission but ofcourse the reforms have a natural end and then what.

Macedonia is fast approaching this point of having to give a concrete reply. There is only one answer Macedonia can give without all out riots. This is a forgone conclusion. The posturing to date has been a show to make people think something is being done while at the same time lets see if they are dumb enough to blink. It then becomes the eus problem of how much they want Macedonia. Sometimes people know the answer they want to give but don’t want to be seen as leading the cause as it automatically alienates them from others. The kind of thing they have been asking Macedonia to do a bold move. The alternative and often seen as a more safe option is to join in a chorus pushing in one direction. But who should lead this chorus an outsider who will champion macedonias cause or Macedonia herself. A champion would be the easier solution for Macedonia but how realistic is this given the co dependencies that exist already and besides can we really entrust our identity on a bet that a chapion will show up. You already know the answer to this and it is obviously No.

What should Macedonia do. End the discussions as you say but when and what else can any of us do to prepare for this inevitable conclusion and stear to a more favourable reaction. A wealth of information exists on the MTO and many have shown great knowledge in historical maters and great skill in being able to sort through countering claims to argue a logical conclusion to the truth. Many threads have ended with another myth destroyed. It is this knowledge that has been allowed to perculate via discussion to the truth that needs to be drawn together as evidence we are Macedonians. The reason for this reply is it seems many of you subscribe to the notion we know who we are and nothing more needs to be done but this inaction creates a situation for Macedonia’s detractors to repeat their false propaganda as truth trying to force an endless muddying of the truth and thereby forcing their version of reality on everyone. Sometimes the so called truth is just a lie repeated enough times that it becomes the accepted truth. So can you see that when someone is trying to muddy the truth inaction from a self righteous position is an action in itself agaist Macedonia.

I don’t know what steps and to what degree Macedonia has taken to establish a timeline of histrical truths each in themselves argued logically as they have been at the MTO to answer the question we are Macedonians because and here are the counterclaims and why they are not. In a time of common struggle each individual needs to bring everything they can to the forefront. This is where I see the strength of the MTO not only to produce the truth for the masses to uplift their spirits and strengthen their resolve but also to harness the countless hours many have put into researching the truth as a ready aid to any in Macedonia who would be preparing such a defence. One might ask those of you with any connection to those in political and educational circles where is Macedonia at with clearing the lies from history and where and how can the wealth of knowledge at the MTO help. Are we satisfied with what people in Macedonia have done to date and is there anything we could add. Remember inaction is an action in itself and each action has consequences.

[Makedonetz]

SOurce:

http://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/