Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Risto the Great]

If we accept Rogi's (realistic) predictions ....
would it then be safe to assume that those who support negotiations are in fact "enemies of the State"?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes to Rogi's answer.

Yes to RTG's last response.

[Daskalot]

If we accept Rogi's (realistic) predictions ....
would it then be safe to assume that those who support negotiations are in fact "enemies of the State"?

That is a correct observation. :rmacedonia

[osiris]

good question risto, either traitors and sellouts, naive and trusting fools or very wise tacticians who want to prolong the process untill its no longer an issue in the political reality.

i think they are naive and foolish. but if they do accept a name change they will become traitors.

[Venom]

In all reality, if a name change is accepted by one of these idiots, they will more than likely get killed.

We will all support Macedonia. Outside and inside. Don't worry about the propaganda the papers and shit spit out, most of the people in Macedonia are strongly against a name change and I would say a lot are against joining the EU if that was a criteria.

[Venom]

Nah he is right gorillas, you're a racist piece of shit who is telling US to get a reality check. You don't even know why you are against us, you just spew the same tired shit over and over again. Fuck off.

Good on Ivanov for taking action against people willing to compromise a name which does not belong to them, rather the Macedonian people as a whole.

And what is it with these apes coming on here with their latest scary phrase "the west will make you change it." Wasn't Obama supposed to do that the second he became president? How many times was it supposed to happen by now? Fucking dogs.

[slovenec zrinski]

So let´s see..if there is a delegate from Great Britain at this imaginary meeting there will be a sign that reads "Great Britainian" for the language spoken by that delegate???????

[osiris]

your observations are too subtle for most greeks to understand zrinski.

[Volk]

Interesting thread... I wonder the real strength behind the Macedonian diaspora...

Can we agree that it was insignificant in 2001? We can all remember the major news outlets denationalizing us by calling us Slavs. Ragtag army...ect ect. Hopefully we have grown stronger since then.

[Soldier of Macedon]

That is the best way to get an answer from these racists, simply put forth a hypothetical situation that requires a simple and clear answer. And they show their colours.

I will never respect a person who will not allow me the dignity of my identity. "North" what? Nothing. I am Macedonian only, and Macedonian I will always remain. That is not up for negotiation. So we have nothing to talk to the Greeks about. Ivanov and Gruevski should toughen up and stop spewing this referendum garbage, get out of the negotiations, NOW. The game is over with these Greeks, everybody knows what they want, and changing the name of our state is only the beginning, there is nothing left to talk about with these racists. The Macedonian leadership needs to end this fiasco now.

[Risto the Great]

We will all support Macedonia. Outside and inside. Don't worry about the propaganda the papers and shit spit out, most of the people in Macedonia are strongly against a name change and I would say a lot are against joining the EU if that was a criteria.

Aha, thanks Venom. You have cared to discuss the sentiment within Macedonia. Do you think they have more of a desire for self preservation than we do here in the Diaspora?

Perhaps a better question is are we more idealistic in the Diaspora? Does the economic and geographic detachment we have allow us the opportunity to more fully appreciate the treachery of these negotiations?

People under duress do not make decisions they are comfortable with. We in the diaspora are under no pressure whatsoever and see the negotiations for what they are.

I am feeling a little militant today. I am sick and tired of wishy washy politics when it comes to matters of identity.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Venom is right, most people in the republic don't want a name change, but you make a good point RTG, under duress people don't make comfortable decisions. The question is, how do we keep them from caving in, in the case that they cannot do it themselves?

[Risto the Great]

Interesting thread... I wonder the real strength behind the Macedonian diaspora...

Can we agree that it was insignificant in 2001? We can all remember the major news outlets denationalizing us by calling us Slavs. Ragtag army...ect ect. Hopefully we have grown stronger since then.

Jeez I should remember this quite well.

I was in the executive committee at our little Adelaide community during those times. We were constantly writing to various Government departments rejecting letters and demanding apologies for the rapid change in "stance" that seemed to happen overnight.

I am not sure whether the Diaspora made much of a difference at all. As stated earlier by Rogi, the negotiation of our identity would have a very damaging effect on the psyche of all Macedonians. Something similar happened in 2001 due to the helplessness of the situation. Personally, I have had business interests on the boil for quite a while and feel very reluctant pursuing them in a country that appears not to respect the desire of its majority.

I am of the opinion that the rapidly growing national consciousness within Macedonia is a good thing and must not be hampered in any way at this stage. To see Macedonians as victims in 2001 was very damaging and we should never forget who made the erosion of our sovereignty possible.

Hard question Volk. The Diaspora has not been utilised anywhere near enough by consecutive Macedonian governments. If Macedonia was clever about it, much more could be gained from its Diaspora.

[Risto the Great]

The question is, how do we keep them from caving in, in the case that they cannot do it themselves?

I don't think we can do it by shaming them. You know ... calling them sellouts etc. That will have the opposite effect, they will get their backs up and remind us we don't know what it is like to suffer in that country .

The Grkomani did this in Greece many years ago.

Gentle, forceful reminders within Macedonia might be useful along with fierce Diaspora resistance to the wolves that seek to eliminate us. This is worthy of more thought I reckon.

[Risto the Great]

Hey, can I be a North Macedonian from Southern Macedonia?
I would imagine this will only be possible if there is a Southern Macedonia. I can't wait for Greece to give up its New Territory and restore its rightful name. I will even be happy if the new country is called South Macedonia .... for now.