Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Giorikas]

Giorikas, all of Greece's actions have galvanised Macedonia. Don't you realise that Greece is Macedonia's best friend simply because its demands have been so utterly unreasonable that Macedonia has had no choice but to stand up and fight. You believe what you want, but Macedonia has never been more sure about this issue and Greece simply does not have a chance. What people like SoM (including myself) have done is express the will of Macedonians from around the world. this will is measured .... often. And it augurs well.

I believe that giving a country an enemy has the effect you describe. So I agree with that part. I also believe that it doesn't matter whether that unified goal is valid or not.

Whilst people like you even believe even believe the motley crew of ethnicities that (80 years ago) were shipped in from Turkey can be called Macedonians. The real Macedonians know who they are and don't need people with hidden agendas denying their identity.

Blablabla. Broken record Risto the Great style. These people are and were Greeks. Check with your good friends the Turks if you must, but it doesn't really matter what you think. Try reading a book called 'Istanbul' by Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk and you'll learn a thing or two about all that. Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

Now tell me Risto the Great. What have you concretely achieved all these years. Please enlighten me. Expressing your opnion is a means to a achieve a goal. It's not the goal in itself. Lol. 'Express the will of Macedonians around the world'..'measured' ... You really need a reality check my friend. You started believing in your own greatness.

[makedonin]

but it doesn't really matter what you think.

Same goes for you, and still you are playing as if you have something to say, like in your comment here:

Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

By default you say. I say your default is not mine or the worlds default. The very act that you perceive them shows that they are not what you perceive them to be, i.e. Macedonians.

In contrary to that, we didn't had the need to show off that we are Macedonians, but we simply were and are being Macedonians,
and if there weren't you and your wonnabe Turks, we wouldn't had any need to prove it or show it to the world, we'd just be what we are, Macedonians.

This Turk wonnabe "Macedonians" can't even come close to my Macedonian balls.

You know that and I know that, and they certainly know it, that is why they are so engaged in proving the opposite.

[Giorikas]

Giorikas, all of Greece's actions have galvanised Macedonia. Don't you realise that Greece is Macedonia's best friend simply because its demands have been so utterly unreasonable that Macedonia has had no choice but to stand up and fight. You believe what you want, but Macedonia has never been more sure about this issue and Greece simply does not have a chance. What people like SoM (including myself) have done is express the will of Macedonians from around the world. this will is measured .... often. And it augurs well.

Whilst people like you even believe even believe the motley crew of ethnicities that (80 years ago) were shipped in from Turkey can be called Macedonians. The real Macedonians know who they are and don't need people with hidden agendas denying their identity.

Ah, but then again, can't there be any truth in the observation that the Macedonian name issue is a political tool as this Macedonian politician states:

http://www.makfax.com.mk/en-Us/Details.aspx?itemID=6198

Auch, political marketing even...

[Risto the Great]

Blablabla. Broken record Risto the Great style. These people are and were Greeks. Check with your good friends the Turks if you must, but it doesn't really matter what you think. Try reading a book called 'Istanbul' by Turkish writer Orhan Pamuk and you'll learn a thing or two about all that. Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

Now tell me Risto the Great. What have you concretely achieved all these years. Please enlighten me. Expressing your opnion is a means to a achieve a goal. It's not the goal in itself. Lol. 'Express the will of Macedonians around the world'..'measured' ... You really need a reality check my friend. You started believing in your own greatness.

No worries Giorikas.
Read the following link:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1529

Your people spoke Turkish when they arrived in Macedonia 80 years ago. They went to the Patriarchal church though if that helps you get through the night.

What have I concretely achieved? I guarantee that I have brought cockroaches like you out of the woodwork who genuinely believes that his points are reasonable. We have hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum and realise that the little game you are playing is filled with deceit and hidden agendas. Reasonable people will understand that Macedonians are not the problem. It is the people who call themselves Greek nowadays who are.

Again, you are not from (occupied) Macedonia, you were not educated there. I urge you to read the link above to discuss the purity of Greekness you crave for the region. I simply kept seeing Macedonian, Turks, Vlachs and Albanians. I know where we Macedonians were an overwhelming majority. I am sure they are Greeks now if that helps you sleep better.

What have you achieved for Greece lately?

Being Greek doesn't make them (Greek) Macedonian of course but for me they are by default 10 times more entitled to call themselves Macedonian then you.

Good on you, you felt the need to use that rather unnatural descriptor "(Greek)" next to what everyone else understands by Macedonian. You have solved the name dispute my friend. Please tell mother Ellada.

For you a goat herding Turk from Anatolia is indeed more Macedonian than me. But you need to step forward 2000 years and smell the baklava.

[Risto the Great]

Ah, but then again, can't there be any truth in the observation that the Macedonian name issue is a political tool as this Macedonian politician states:

http://www.makfax.com.mk/en-Us/Details.aspx?itemID=6198

Auch, political marketing even...

Wow, an Albanian in Macedonia making a statement to undermine the ruling party politicians. This is unheard of in Greece .... mostly because the Albanians are Greek now.

[Giorikas]

Wow, an Albanian in Macedonia making a statement to undermine the ruling party politicians. This is unheard of in Greece .... mostly because the Albanians are Greek now.

I thought he was Macedonian. Why why else would he be heading a political party there. So you're saying that a non-Macedonian be elected a PM in ROM then ... strange.

Oh forgot. We went through that. You tried to convince me once that an Australian without a Macedonian passport who never set foot in ROM and who doesn't necessarily speak Macedonian is still more Macedonian then a bilingual Albanian-Macedonian.

Now what was it again,.... Greece is racist for not distinguishing along ethnic lines, and ROM is champion of human rights by distinguishing between 'real Macedonians' and 'not real Macedonian'.

Thanks for demonstrating that. I rest my case.

[Risto the Great]

Giorikas.
You got me there. You proved that an Albanian is given more rights in Macedonia than in Greece.

Greece does not distinguish along ethnic lines because Greeks would become the minority.

[Giorikas]

No worries Giorikas.
Read the following link:

http://macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1529

Your people spoke Turkish when they arrived in Macedonia 80 years ago. They went to the Patriarchal church though if that helps you get through the night.

Funny. Now not excluding the possibility that some refugees indeed did not speak Greek, surely you understand that they were the exception. We went through that. As you cunningly discovered no doubt through your greatness, Greeks ( who were themselves Albanian & Vlach speaking as you tought me) were in the process of sucessfully and at record speed learning Greek themselves, to then reeducate & indoctrinate Slav speaking Macedonians plus the Turkish speaking Greek refugees. Ha ha. Another classic Risto theory

What have I concretely achieved? I guarantee that I have brought cockroaches like you out of the woodwork who genuinely believes that his points are reasonable. We have hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum and realise that the little game you are playing is filled with deceit and hidden agendas. Reasonable people will understand that Macedonians are not the problem. It is the people who call themselves Greek nowadays who are.

You're being very rude calling me a cockroach Hopefully when I reach your age I will be serving the cause too calling my oponents cockraches and so on haha. I think banning Greeks for quoting Wikipedia for example is a more accurate description. Or banning Greeks for breaking rules that do not exist is also accurate. Or how about a dual role, Risto who discusses and Risto who moderates, and when Risto who discusses tells Risto who moderates that an unwritten forum rule is broken, Risto the moderates acts. On a more serious note. What have you actually concretely achieved? Did you manage to break off the name negotiations or something like that ?

Again, you are not from (occupied) Macedonia, you were not educated there. I urge you to read the link above to discuss the purity of Greekness you crave for the region. I simply kept seeing Macedonian, Turks, Vlachs and Albanians. I know where we Macedonians were an overwhelming majority. I am sure they are Greeks now if that helps you sleep better.

Neither are you. You are an Australian. I always love those guys, born and raised far away having visited a few times saying ' I am Egean Macedonian'.

What have you achieved for Greece lately?

Oh. Nothing. But then again, my goals are fairly modest. I'll stick around here for a while trying to understand what makes you guys tick. Nothing more. I am not 24/24 on this or any other forum.

Good on you, you felt the need to use that rather unnatural descriptor "(Greek)" next to what everyone else understands by Macedonian. You have solved the name dispute my friend. Please tell mother Ellada.

Hurrah. Open the champaign.

For you a goat herding Turk from Anatolia is indeed more Macedonian than me. But you need to step forward 2000 years and smell the baklava.

The horror...., the horror ...

Do some research one time on what you're saying and find out to which extent Ottoman Turks regarded Greeks as Greeks.

[Giorikas]

Giorikas.
You got me there. You proved that an Albanian is given more rights in Macedonia than in Greece.

Greece does not distinguish along ethnic lines because Greeks would become the minority.

Actually. Albanian is incorrect. Their passports say Macedonian. Not Albanian Macedonian, not Albanian. And I for 1 support them and I sincerely hope that their background is somehow reflected in the upcoming new name that is on the drawing board. We wouldn't want to violate the Ohrid accord now, would we ?

[Risto the Great]

You will note the Macedonian constitution refers to Albanians.
What does the Greek one refer to? ... I should read it for a laugh one day.
I will get back to the rest of your dribble later, I hope you hold your breath.

[Mr. MASO]

YouTube - The population in the Ottoman Empire
Giorikas if you still believe in the OTTOMAN cencus than check this.
Kosovo Province
Bulgarians - 531,000
Greeks - 91,000
If you please explain this Id like you to help me. This land is sacred for only two ethnic groups. Albanians and Serbs. But funny enough neither both exist in this province.

[makedonin]

Actually. Albanian is incorrect. Their passports say Macedonian. Not Albanian Macedonian, not Albanian.

Their passport says clearly Macedonian Citizenship with Albanian Nationality. Mine is saying Macedonian Citizenship with Macedonian Nationality.

Nationality is actually referring to the Ethnic background, and the Citizenship to the Nationality in your language.


Have you ever seen Macedonian Passport Mr. ?

It seems to me, you are talking all the time about things you don't really comprehend or know, but just guessing

I would really like to see how many EU Passports are taking care of this tiny little differences. Hint for you, NONE as far as I know.

[Giorikas]

You will note the Macedonian constitution refers to Albanians.
What does the Greek one refer to? ... I should read it for a laugh one day.
I will get back to the rest of your dribble later, I hope you hold your breath.

So the Macedonian constitution refers to them as Albanians ? So they are not Macedonian now but Albanian ? Their passport will show that too ? Now who dedides who is Albanian or who not ? Do they choose themselves or does the state do that ? If I am an Albanian in Skopje, can I choose to be Macedonian or can I not ? Children from mixed families are what exactly ? And where does it say who is counted as what ? The passport, the municipality ? Is there a way for an Albanian Macedonian to move to Macedonian ?

Or let's say that Greece will do the same as your little paradise of equality and liberty. Who decides who is 'normal Greek' and who is something else ? Should someone who you consider to be 'Egean Macedonian' be by default labelled as something else then Greek, even against his or her will?

On your question; you know the answer to that. An Albanian in Greece can be an immigrant and remain an Albanian working in Greece with a green card. No problem. As long as Greece needs them of course and that's certainly the case now. Those who manage to obtain the Greek nationality will become Greek, no matter what they really feel themselves. Or as third option, they can be illegal immigrants. Those are the options. Now how racist is that, eh ?

Dribble eh. Yeah well. Looking forward to hear from you your best Ristorian theories. I especially like the classics. Explain me again how there were no Greeks, just Vlachs & Albanians who brainwashed themselves to learn Greek, forgot their native tongue in the process, and to then brainwash those poor Slavic speaking Macedonians, Bulgarians and of course the Christian Turks refugees. They then terrorized their fellow Vlachs and Albanian who they forgot to brainwash. Must have been plenty of brilliant minds back then eh to learn all this so quickly too. This must have been done in no-time. Amazing.

[Giorikas]

Their passport says clearly Macedonian Citizenship with Albanian Nationality. Mine is saying Macedonian Citizenship with Macedonian Nationality.

Nationality is actually referring to the Ethnic background, and the Citizenship to the Nationality in your language.


Have you ever seen Macedonian Passport Mr. ?

It seems to me, you are talking all the time about things you don't really comprehend or know, but just guessing

I would really like to see how many EU Passports are taking care of this tiny little differences. Hint for you, NONE as far as I know.

Ah. At least that's an answer. Bravo. These are not tiny differences at all. You're right, I never saw such a passport and neither have most of those living abroad I suppose. Have you ever wondered why no other EU passports 'take care' of this ? And do you now want Greece to do the same ?

That in fact is discrimination, which means in this context that you discriminate between different peoples within a country. Now all here are very happy about that when it concerns ROM but actually, most countries would find that a very bad idea. Otherwise they woiuld have implemented that wouldn't you say? So I wish you all luck trying to sell that brilliant concept outside of ROM but Greece for 1 is not buying.

[makedonin]

Ah. At least that's an answer. Bravo. These are not tiny differences at all. You're right, I never saw such a passport and neither have most of those living abroad I suppose. Have you ever wondered why no other EU passports 'take care' of this ? And do you now want Greece to do the same ?

That in fact is discrimination, which means in this context that you discriminate between different peoples within a country. Now all here are very happy about that when it concerns ROM but actually, most countries would find that a very bad idea. Otherwise they woiuld have implemented that wouldn't you say? So I wish you all luck trying to sell that brilliant concept outside of ROM but Greece for 1 is not buying.

See, you can describe it as discrimination, but it is the Minority will. They wanted it, not we.

On the other side, it was Yugoslav concept. On the passport, all were with Yugoslav citizenship with paragraph on the nationality.

You may look at it discriminatory, but it is actually the free will of the Minority's and people's of the state.

All others are avoiding it, since they think it is the way of feeding separatism.

That's it.