Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Vangelovski]

Once again,I was only referring to their action:stop all negotiations and stand for what they believe in and what they want,that's all,I'm not comparing the countries.It's far beyond comparison.Just end all negotiations now and let them whine about it as much as they want.

Asking the UN General Assembly to hold a vote on our name is not standing up for our rights. Its doing the complete opposite. Instead of Macedonia determining its own name, this UN suggestion would have every country in the world having a say. That's Greece times 200.

[George S.]

greece should start to respect us & recognize us for who we are if it doesn't like it it should be booted out as there is noplace for them in the un or any other sphere.We should have more & more support from other countries.Don't let others decide your fate.WE should decide for ourselves.We shoul d say to the un this is our constitutional name & be recognized by that.Greece cannot be allowed to interfere in our affairs.Are we allowed to interfere into their affairs? no.Some people are prepared to write us off but only if we let them Yes we have rights & we must insist on them to the point of unwavering.Just remember they want us to forego our rights to our name again if we let them.The UN will listen in the right way that we approach it.In reality all these years while the greeks have been lobbying & interfeering we have watched idly & did virtually nothing.The greeks were doing everything to us.Stand up & be counted ask for your rights.Speak out.Silence won't help you.Your name is allready your name there is nothing new.The republic of Macedonia name was allready registered with world authorities ssince 1944.We have an absolute right to the COUNTRY NAME .In contrast GREECE is dilley dallying with the nAME OF A PROVINCE Named after 1978.Whils't denying macedonian existence.What greece is doing is negating us as to not having rights to our name.but as explained we do & we have to insist on it.Do not let the likes of greece bully us out of our name.!

[julie]

I have been in a cocoon last few weeks, few reasons for it, but OMG what a revolting sign, flag and uniform, looks like clownsuits - is it too close to home to actually use the red and yellow colours as well? Pathetic

[DedoAleko]

FM Poposki: Response to greek Memorandum of Understanding is ready

The Government has prepared a response to the draft-memorandum of understanding that greece sent to Macedonia at the beginning of October. Macedonia’s response, which will soon be submitted to Athens, includes a requirement for respect, in a non-selective manner, of all obligations undertaken in the past and full commitment to dialogue, Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki said at Thursday’s press conference.

“The most significant thing is that we must focus on the main idea within the common goal – EU integration – which is observance of certain rules and norms, referring in a non-selective manner to undertaken obligations and established relations. Republic of Macedonia will do everything in responding positively to every initiative towards bringing that common idea closer, and every country in the region has interest in contributing to the realization of this idea”, said FM Poposki.

According to him, if countries agree on this, it would largely facilitate communication at all levels, adding that cooperation among citizens and businesses was excellent.

“What we should reflect is sincerity and commitment to the mutual agenda in the coming period. I see opportunities for certain cooperation in this direction while respecting all obligations undertaken in the past and full commitment to dialogue we want to have”, added Poposki.

With regards to the proposal that a solution should be sought in a name with geographic qualifier for all uses, the FM stressed the most significant thing is to be impartial to the memorandum, “meaning to take into consideration those impartial assessments regarding any difference”, and referred to the International Court of Justice ruling.

“The highest UN legal body has presented its view over the rights and obligations, as well as their observance. In the section regarding Macedonia’s commitments it is noted that the country has always met its obligations, proactively approaching any commitment, including the open dialogue with all neighbors. Macedonia’s approach is constructive and principled”, said Poposki.

Pertaining to the formula for settlement of the name issue in the early stage of EU accession negotiations, as recommended by the European Commission, FM Poposki referred to the existing practice in the Union to separate bilateral issues from the accession process.

“We must respect an established rule within the EU, according to which all bilateral issues are treated bilaterally. The EU integration process must be fixed on those rules given within the Union legal framework, whereas the EU has no interest in combining bilateral issues with those related to the integration dynamics. The most important thing is to maintain the logic when meeting certain criteria and transferring into the next stage. The fact that the goal is common – EU membership – should represent an additional factor for facilitation of any bilateral difficulties. This is the only way to overcome all bilateral issues existing from all prior enlargement rounds. We must not allow that the rule is broken in this case”, emphasized Poposki.

On the accusations by Bulgarian authorities over Macedonia’s violation of good neighborly relations and the discriminating relation towards citizens who declare themselves as Bulgarians, he assessed that such statements do not reflect the reality, since there is no concrete example that could confirm such claims by official Sofia.

“This assessment does not reflect reality. I cannot find any specific example that would turn such qualifications into a concrete action. What is concrete is the climate we have continually created, which is building good neighborly relations in an essential way. I believe the definition for good neighborly relations is sincerity with neighbors. This is the highest priority, and I believe that relations should be in such climate from the aspect of a common future that we expect to have within the EU”, underlined Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki.

izvor: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/22123/45/

[Vangelovski]

Macedonia’s response, which will soon be submitted to Athens, includes a requirement for respect, in a non-selective manner, of all obligations undertaken in the past and full commitment to dialogue, Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki said at Thursday’s press conference.

Translation: Implement the Interim Accord and call us FYROM.

[Risto the Great]

Translation: Implement the Interim Accord and call us FYROM.

Haha, that was my conclusion too.

[makedonche]

I would have responded a little more firmly, such as:-
"Since you and your country have failed to live up to an agreement that was signed, it is blatantly obvious you have little or no credibility or desire to resolve anything and little or no regard for legal instruments entered into by your country, it is therefore a waste of time and effort engaging in any further agreements or consultation with you or your country. It is without further hesitation we withdraw from the Interim Accord and declare it null and void due to your careless disregard for international law and common decency. We hereby declare the Interim Accord Null and Void, no further correspondence is required or will be entered into.
Youirs Faithfully
The Real Macedonians!"

[DedoAleko]

Macedonian Ambassador hands over response to greek Memorandum

Macedonia's Ambassador Sasko Stefkov at Monday's meeting in Athens with greek Deputy FM Dimitris Kurkulas handed over a letter of Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki for his greek counterpart Dimitris Avramopoulos.

Full letter's text:
Dear Colleague,
I would like to thank you for your letter of 3 October in which you have expressed an intention to qualitatively move towards a resolution of the longstanding issue in the relations between our two countries.

Your gesture to propose a Memorandum of Understanding is understood as a response to the initiatives that we have undertaken. I would like to mention here the letter of 31 July 2012, from Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski to Prime Minister Samaras, in which we laid out a series of proposals aimed at intensifying the level of cooperation and increasing trust between our two countries. I believe that our common objective should be to improve mutual confidence, promote good-neighbourliness, strengthen bilateral cooperation and highlight common values and visions for the future. These were clearly the principles of our previous correspondence addressed to you on the topic.

It is certainly worth underlining that the proposed draft MoU reaffirms to a significant extent some of the fundamentals of the 1995 Interim Accord, the commitments of which are still very relevant and certainly not exhausted. They include inviolability of the existing borders, respect of sovereignty and territorial integrity, refraining from the threat or the use of force, non-interference in internal affairs of the other, promotion of good-neighbourly relations and cooperation in many important fields.

In this regard, I would like to emphasize once more that we define these principles as key pillars of our constitutional order and foreign policy. Furthermore, I would like to reiterate our commitment to continuously honour the obligations that we have assumed in this respect. I hope that the proposed MoU implies your readiness to fully observe all obligations assumed under the Interim Accord as well.

I entirely agree, dear Colleague, with the assessment that both Macedonia and the Hellenic Republic have a paramount duty to be full-heartedly engaged in the longstanding talks under the auspices of the Secretary-General of the United Nations. Both sides should therefore approach these talks in good faith and in a constructive manner, while respecting the democratic principles and human rights in line with international law and the relevant international instruments of which both states are parties.
I believe that such a spirit can lead us to a resolution of the difference over the name, as noted by the Security Council in its Resolutions 817 (1993). This Resolution as well as the UN Security Council Resolution 845 (1993) and the 1995 Interim Accord provided the framework for the process. The assessment and consequent decision of the highest UN legal organ, the International Court of Justice in The Hague, on this matter is clearly our common asset. In fact, its Judgement addresses in an impartial way several aspects of the issues that have been raised in the proposed MoU.

Furthermore, I hope you will also agree with the recent assessment of the European Commission that a decision of the European Council to open accession negotiations would contribute to creating the conditions conductive to finding a solution to the name issue, under the auspices of the United Nations. I am confident that in this framework we will be able to overcome the difference between our countries and enhance good-neighbourliness in a genuine manner, the manner which upholds the core values of European integration, such as respect of national identities and cultural, religious and linguistic diversity, as well as the right of self-determination.
Dear colleague, our citizens deserve a better future. They also wish for peace, stability and prosperity in our region. The European integration is undoubtedly a process that offers such perspective. Being the oldest member state from our region, the Hellenic Republic could certainly have an important role in leading the whole region forward. People and businesses across our borders are persistently building bridges. As good neighbours, we should engage vigorously in eliminating the fears of treats of any kind. No one should question territorial integrity, political independence and sovereignty of both countries. The political elites must seize this opportunity to bring our nations ever closer. Our wish is to walk this road together.

It is our firm desire to overcome the difference over the name. This will benefit both countries and the region as a whole.
Starting from this shared vision, I welcome the intention, expressed in your letter, to move the talks on the difference over name decisively forward. With this in mind, we recognize the need to create a more balanced and credible way ahead. I propose to give this task to our respective representatives in the talks with the mediation of Mr. Matthew Nimetz. At the same time, I would like to reaffirm our stated commitments for increased communication on all political and diplomatic levels. In that spirit, I avail myself of this opportunity to invite you once again to visit us as soon as possible.

Taking into consideration the importance of the issue, I would like to underline the need for full commitment by both sides. It is exceptionally important that we maintain open and consistent communication at the highest political level. For that purpose, I would like to renew the standing invitation that Prime Minister Gruevski has sent to Prime Minister Samars for a meeting at any place and any time, Poposki says in his letter to Avramopoulos.

izvor: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/22144/1/

Here you can find the original text in Macedonian:

http://www.utrinski.com.mk//memorandumnikolapopovski.pdf

[Risto the Great]

English translation of the English translation:

We stand by the interim accord and not a brass razoo has changed since 1993.

[Stojacanec]

Did it take 30 days for the Macedonian Government to cut and paste the same old dribble about sharing common goals?

Greece interfers with our internal affairs on a daily basis, therefore that response is not worth the paper it's written on.

[TrueMacedonian]

Macedonia warms to Greek name solution initiative

http://www.euractiv.com/enlargement/macedonia-warms-greek-name-solut-news-515915

Macedonia warms to Greek name solution initiative
Published 08 November 2012

Skopje has made a promising opening to Greece by reacting favourably to a proposal aimed at resolving the long-standing name dispute between the countries.

A letter from Macedonian Foreign Minister Nikola Poposki to his Greek counterpart Dimitris Avramopoulos was given to Greek authorities on 6 November in Athens, one month after Greece tabled a proposal aimed at a solution.

In an unusual move, the letter was made public and welcomes the Greek intention to move the issue “decisively forward”, reflecting a potentially positive course.

The letter was given to Greek Deputy Foreign Minister Dimitris Kourkoulas, who recently joined his country’s foreign service. Kourkoulas is an experienced diplomat who had previously worked for the European Commission.

Poposki insists that the Greek proposal for the two countries to sign a memorandum as a basis to unblock the name issue has come as a response to initiatives from Macedonia, an EU candidate. Greece has long objected to the unqualified use of "Macedonia" because of its own province of the same name.

Enlargement Commissioner Štefan Füle has lately pressured both sides to solve their differences. From the European Commission’s perspective, there is a need to lift the Greek veto for Macedonia to begin EU accession talks, and put the country on a more stable track in light of growing ethnic tensions in the former Yugoslav republic.

The Commission issued a recommendation to start accession negotiations with Macedonia in December 2005. Without the Greek veto Macedonia - at least in theory - could have wrapped up the negotiations. Croatia, another former Yugoslav republic, started accession negotiations in 2005, completed them in 2011 and is due to join the EU on 1 July 2013.

Greece plans ambitious EU presidency

The Greek political thinking has apparently evolved lately. The country has ambitious plans for the Western Balkans during its EU presidency in the first half of 2014. On 5 October, Avramopoulos sent a letter to Poposki with a proposal for a bilateral memorandum as a basis for finding a solution to the name dispute.

On this basis, the Commission has a plan according to which Skopje could start accession negotiations even before a resolution of the name dispute with Greece is found. In its recently published 2012 enlargement strategy paper, it calls for finding a solution to the name dispute at “an early stage of the accession negotiations”.

In his letter to Avramopoulos, Poposki repeats many formulations used previously by his Greek colleague regarding improving mutual confidence, promoting neighborliness and strengthening bilateral cooperation.

“I hope you will also agree with the recent assessment of the European Commission that a decision of the European Council to open accession negotiations would contribute to creating the conditions conductive to finding a solution to the name issue, under the auspices of the United Nations," the letter says.

"It is our firm desire to overcome the difference over the name. This will benefit both countries and the region as a whole. Starting from this shared vision, I welcome the intention, expressed in your letter, to move the talks on the difference over name decisively forward,” Poposki wrote.

United Nations special mediator Matthew Nimetz, a US diplomat, is mediationg between Skopje and Athens over the name dispute.

According to various reports, a compromise to the name would contain a “geographical qualifier” given that Macedonia is a geographical region that overlaps the territories of Greece, Bulgaria and the former Yugoslav republic.

Diplomats have been speculating whether “Northern Macedonia” or “Upper Macedonia” could be acceptable to both sides.

Bulgaria spoils the party?

The auspicious diplomatic exchange may be dimmed by statements from Bulgarian President Rossen Plevneliev, who told Füle last week that Macedonia is “not ready” to start accession negotiations. Plevneliev’s positions were repeated during Füle's meetings at government level.

As the Commission wants to table the proposal for starting negotiations with Macedonia at the 13 December EU summit, Füle visited Bulgaria in a bid to clarify the government's position with respect to Macedonia, and learned that Skopje could count with a Bulgarian veto.

Bulgarian officials at various levels have accused Skopje of stealing from Bulgaria's history, manipulating historical facts, discriminating against Macedonian citizens with Bulgarian citizenship and badmouthing the neighbouring country.

Commission officials are trying to figure out how serious the Bulgarian veto threat is, EurActiv was told. Bulgaria is holding parliamentary elections next summer and a “firm position” vis-à-vis Skopje appears to have the support of the majority of the Bulgarians.

The Commission said it welcomed the exchange of correspondence between “the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia” and Greece.

[TrueMacedonian]

“I hope you will also agree with the recent assessment of the European Commission that a decision of the European Council to open accession negotiations would contribute to creating the conditions conductive to finding a solution to the name issue, under the auspices of the United Nations," the letter says.

"It is our firm desire to overcome the difference over the name. This will benefit both countries and the region as a whole. Starting from this shared vision, I welcome the intention, expressed in your letter, to move the talks on the difference over name decisively forward,” Poposki wrote.

Treason! Absolute treason!

[DedoAleko]

google translate:

eu to greece: no veto or no more money

The European Union has asked the greek government to unblock the start of Macedonia's accession negotiations for membership in the European Union's December summit, says the Courier of Athens.

greek diplomatic sources, an eminent greek media informed that the European Union requires greece to allow negotiations to begin without a solution to the problem that Athens has with our name and identity.

This requirement according to the same sources, is part of a broader package of policy measures that the Union has advocated for further extension of the program to save the greek economy from bankruptcy.

According to greek diplomatic sources, Union policy measures advocated in this period are the subject of negotiations between the three-party coalition government Samaras and representatives of the international community.

According to the same sources, despite pressures from Europeans, Greece made parallel pressure from the Americans to overcome differences to Macedonia to get a well deserved place in the NATO Alliance.

izvor: http://denesen.mk/web/2012/11/15/eu-...a-poveke-pari/


google translate:

"Radikal": Trading for Macedonia's EU and NATO membership



Trading for FYROM's accession to the European Union and NATO, under this title leftist newspaper "Radikal" announces that the mass of the Greek government coalition partners is put unblock Macedonia's Euro-Atlantic path for extension of financial assistance from the Union.

- Unnamed sources from the greek Ministry of Foreign Affairs, arguing that the government has received a request from the European Union to unblock the process of accession negotiations with Macedonia Summit in December. Indeed, last Friday in an interview with Reuters EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Füle confirmed that Macedonia can start negotiations with the EU next year and without the name dispute with greece - the "Radikal".

The newspaper adds that the pressure for immediate unblock performed simultaneously by Europeans and Americans and for the EU and NATO.

Ambassador Nikovski does not believe that greece is blackmailed, but does not exclude the possibility of a positive outcome of the December summit.

- Certainly not blackmailed in a given situation, but expect and want, because the idea and the proposal give Fillet is not his, it was agreed in the EU and that a higher level. It is, therefore, action Brussels and Brussels wants to get out of the impasse, because, let's not forget the Hague ruling is a strong blow to all of them. And those who vociferously advocate and seek justice, legality and the rule of right, suddenly priznavat court judgment najvrvnata jurisdiction in the world. Chances to give us a date for negotiations not small - says Nikovski.

However ambassador warns the trap in which you can catch with the acceptance of the accession negotiations in parallel with the resolution of the dispute at an early stage of the same name.

- In fact the idea that gave Fillet means negotiations in parallel with the problem at an early stage is very dangerous, a way for us, and even in the interest of greece. If we accept that he walk the track, that means we give directly ekspilictno of Article 11 of the Interim Accord that greece must not interfere in the integration process, and secondly give up Hague sentence as we begin a new path that previous no connection - considered Nikovski.

Indicative that after a delay of one month Matthew Nimetz still convene a new round of name talks with negotiators Jolevski Vassilakis November 19 and 20 in New York. What signals received from both sides in the dispute mediator will know as early as next week after the conclusion of the negotiations.

izvor: http://sitel.com.mk/node/44240

[Vangelovski]

Macedonia Keeps Toying with its Name

So why not everyone else?

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti...-name-deadlock

The lead analyst of the European Stability Initiative, Gerald Knaus, said the solution would foresee a change to Macedonia’s name that would come into force permanently on the day that the country joined the EU.

In a blog post, Knaus upgraded an ESI initiative from 2010, called “Breaking the Macedonian deadlock”, saying a suggestion that incorporated the bottom lines of both Athens and Skopje was needed.

Macedonia and Greece are locked in a two-decade dispute over the use of the name “Macedonia”.

Athens insists that use of the term “Republic of Macedonia” implies territorial claims to its own northern province, also called Macedonia.

Because of Greece’s objections, Macedonia joined the UN in 1993 under the cumbersome formula of Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, FYROM.

In 2008, Greece blocked the country’s accession to NATO on the grounds of the unresolved name row.

Since 2009, the EU has recommended that Macedonia receive a start date for membership negotiation talks with the EU.

But this offer has also been blocked by Greece, citing the unresolved dispute.

In December the EU Council will again discuss the possibility of offering a date for negotiations with Macedonia.

Knaus said Macedonia should take the first step by adopting constitutional amendments, changing the name of the country and adding a geographical qualifier.

“This would replace the provisional name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia [used in UN and international organizations] and allow Athens to support Macedonia's EU accession talks,” Knaus wrote.

This amendment should be provisional and would come into force only if and when Macedonia joined the EU. The same should apply for Macedonia's NATO bid.

According to the proposal, both sides would seek active mediation to find an agreed compromise name with a geographical modifier.

In parallel to this, Greece would commit itself to supporting Macedonia’s NATO membership.

“From the day that the Republic of Macedonia joins the European Union the international name of the country will be XYZ, used erga omnes in all languages other than the official languages of the country,” Knaus proposes.

“Neither side will lose leverage in future. If future Greek governments block the EU accession … [and] make additional demands judged unacceptable in Skopje, this would also delay the entry into force of the core provision of this compromise,” the Knaus proposal explains.

At the end of the process a referendum on EU accession, which would also be a de facto referendum on the name issue, would be organized.

[makedonche]

What a tiresome exercise this whole debacle is! Since when did Macedonia need anyone's permission to call itself Macedonia?
The more we engage fools like this imbecile "Knaus", in any negotiation or discussion, the more risk Macedonia faces in being named something completely foreign to it's origins/language/people. When is enough going to be enough?