Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[tchaiku]

Mathematics and statistics ARE my strength and you're lucky to discuss with an expert in the field. The number I gave was a very quick and rough estimation and I would correct it to 35-40%.

I love mathematics too.

[Karposh]

Well that would be one hell of a job to get paid for, to shoot the shit with the five of us.

That’s right! Amphipolis has his hands full whenever he takes on “the five of us”…BTW, I naturally assume you mean me too when you speak of the fabulous five…right?

I reckon we should name the rest of the members of our esteemed group don’t you think Gocka? We can’t have the riff-raff of this forum thinking they are special too. I’ll start the list off, here it goes:

There’s me (of course), then there’s your good self Gocka…Now about the other three? Hmmm…I really need some help here. There are around 50 or so active members to choose from on this forum and sorting out the really special ones from the duds isn’t that easy actually as they’ve all had something interesting and valuable to contribute from time to time. I give up, this is too hard for me Gocka…All yours mate.

[Spirit]

3. I think I’ll insist on this. This isn’t so. The representation of diaspora is not small (as you imply) but larger than normal given that one MP corresponds to a very-very small number of voters. If I remember correctly one of three seats was recently left vacant as literally no one bothered to vote (i.e. less than a very low threshold). Secondly, I really doubt that people from Aegean Macedonia are denied citizenship in the Republic of Macedonia. Lately, I see too many people crying that they are stateless and usually this is a lie.

Careful Amphipolis you are slipping, I believe this is the first time you have actually referred to the Republic Of Macedonia by it’s constitutional name on this forum, if not well it’s the first time I have seen it. Now that wasn’t so hard was it

[Risto the Great]

I hate any reference to the "constitutional" name. It suggests it ought to be hallowed and respected as though it's set in concrete. The same constitution nowadays give ethnic Albanians disproportionate rights and could (in an instant) give Macedonia a new constitutional name. Then people will be desperate to find a new way of saying "Macedonia" in the future. Something like "aspirational name" or "historical name" or "diaspora name".

[Risto the Great]

news.com is a pretty trashy site at the best of times...most of the stories that they run with are just sensationalist bullshit.

I think from day one of the name dispute the greeks have been full of shit and have always tried to play the victim...it's always about portraying the Macedonians as the aggressors and usurpers...I don't believe that anybody is falling for that shit anymore...the greeks have lost all credibility through their own general incompetence, economic mismanagement and endemic fraud...the glittering turd has truly lost its lustre...

The shit talking started in Neos Kosmos as some kind of fake news, then it filtered into mainstream media.

[Amphipolis]

I love mathematics too.

In that case you should revisit your last post and edit all the numbers

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=172231&postcount=24

[tchaiku]

In that case you should revisit your last post and edit all the numbers

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...1&postcount=24

Yeah Google Translate but it is not hard to guess it is just the unnecessary dots that are misleading I see some wrong centuries in it though. I'll translate it by myself when I have time.

[Pelagonija]

Well done to the Macedonians who turned out in Australia today in support of our right to self determination.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5459355/Macedonian-Australians-rally-protest-Macedonias-sovereignty.html

I feel very proud today to be Macedonian, it's been a while.

[Karposh]

Well done to the Macedonians who turned out in Australia today in support of our right to self determination.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5459355/Macedonian-Australians-rally-protest-Macedonias-sovereignty.html

I feel very proud today to be Macedonian, it's been a while.

"An estimated 30,000 Macedonians attended the Sydney demonstration"

That's pretty impressive. Congratulations to all who attended the Sydney demonstration. Besides Sydney, they would have come from all over the place (Wollongong, Newcastle, etc) and the number speaks for itself - 30,000 Macedonians. Awesome number. I'm very proud to be Macedonian today too.

[Risto the Great]

Pretty nice to see.
I think it's pretty sad to still be protesting against Greeks. It's even sadder to be protesting against Fyromians.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Excellent turnout across Australia, well done to all those involved and in attendance

[Risto the Great]

Excellent turnout across Australia, well done to all those involved and in attendance

Was this protest about the "vibe" of what is going on?
I honestly am not sure who the adversary is here and how the protest was framed. Great to see so many Macedonians out, but I still remain confused about what they hoped to achieve given nobody is doing this in the RoMacedonia.

[Vangelovski]

Was this protest about the "vibe" of what is going on?
I honestly am not sure who the adversary is here and how the protest was framed. Great to see so many Macedonians out, but I still remain confused about what they hoped to achieve given nobody is doing this in the RoMacedonia.

It was good for community solidarity and perhaps preparation for further political battles here in Australia regarding our identity in this country, but as for what is happening in Macedonia it was a bit disjointed. I read all these facebook posts of people who thought it was calling for Australia to recognise Macedonia. I felt like asking them if they knew what day it was.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Was this protest about the "vibe" of what is going on?
I honestly am not sure who the adversary is here and how the protest was framed. Great to see so many Macedonians out, but I still remain confused about what they hoped to achieve given nobody is doing this in the RoMacedonia.

I would say the protest’s central theme was about declaring the diaspora’s position on the name negotiations (being that they should cease), and declaring we are Macedonia. There is obviously nothing to disagree with in that respect.

From what I’ve been able to gather based on the content of the multiple speeches, which varied at each venue, the main adversary appears to be the current government, as generally all seemed to be directed against SDS and Zaev, with comments of illegitimacy, forceful instalment by foreign powers such as US and EU, and treason, etc. There did not seem to be much, if any, direct criticism of DPNE which is a shame, as objectively, it creates the perception of a DPNE bias.

All seem to mention and condemn the bill introducing bilingualism, however I don’t think I heard any mention of the Ohrid Framework Agreement.

All seem to mention and condemn the “Friendship” Agreement with Bulgaria.

All mentioned the Treaty of Bucharest and highlighted the denationalisation of our people by the Greeks as well as the plight of our minorities in the occupying territories, which is something that needs to be emphasized at every opportunity since the Republic has had no intention of publicly addressing the issue.

All appeared to denounce NATO, the EU and the UN for their approach regarding the name issue.

None however appeared to delve into any introspective criticism of our nation

Although all speeches I’ve heard were generally well conveyed and received, if I was to have to pick one to be highlighted it would be that by Chris Angelkov at the Perth rally.

What they hoped to achieve?, I guess by showing the diaspora’s strength and solidarity regarding this issue, it would hopefully influence and encourage more people in the Republic to start to stand up and fight for their rights. Whether these attempts will have any success?, I guess we are all well aware of the cynicism shared amongst us regarding this matter, however for the time being, there really is no harm in giving hope a shot for now.

Irrespective whether these diaspora protests do produce any results in the Republic, as Vangelovski pointed out, domestically I think this event did good for the community which will hopefully lead to a strengthening in solidarity for the political battles to come, even if many were not fully in tune with the context of the protest. In this respect, admittedly, these events help to introduce and raise more interest amongst those same people, which then provides the opportunity for them to become more active and aware of the real issues facing our nation.

[Rogi]

It was a global protest, in many cities around the world and of course including Skopje which, despite the freezing below zero weather and despite the fact the both major parties in Macedonia either didnt support it or actively tried to stop it, there was still a massive turnout.

It was non-partisan in the Diaspora, both major political parties in Macedonia were condemned, but more was addressed toward the current Government given the most recent developments.


Video of the Melbourne rally below, you can get a sense of the size of the crowd although you dont see all the crowdcon the left side of Parliament and along the Imperial Hitel which was quite a large portion of the crowd

https://youtu.be/hJSsAzWpf5s