Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Vangelovski]

There is the possibility of greece supporting the albanians , Ahmeti and Bakoyanis had a series of meetings in case you forgot. This scenario warrants attention, if you dismiss it explain yourself.

I agree with you, EU and NATO will not be entered. A void IA agreement may increase ethnic tension due to the fact the albanians will need to reassess what they want (I have stated it in a above post)

A possibility of Greece supporting the Albanians who may engage in violent conflict at their own initiative is very different to the Albanians engaging in violent conflict at the behest of the Greek government and as a result of Macedonia declaring the IA null and void.

If Macedonia is never likely to enter either NATO or the EU, then what exactly does the IA have to do with Albanian intentions??? It is a non-issue and another BS ill-thoughtout scaremongering "scenario" you have pulled out of your backside.

[Serdarot]

That "инијацитивата" that you "целосно" support includes the use of the new flag of capitulation. Like I told you before, start showing some consistency.

Koj koga kogo terashe da go koristi ventilatorot pri prakjanjeto na tekstot preku elektronska poshta?

POKAZHI kade pishi da prakjate emails i slika od ventilatorot

[Soldier of Macedon]

Koi gi natera prijatelive da go koristat 'ventilatorot'?

[Serdarot]

na prashanje da se odgovori so prashanje e hm...

"proshetaj" niz 24 strani na temata, i izbroj kolku pati e napishano "pushtete go samo tekstot" ili neshto vo takov stil...

opstrukcijata koja ja napravivte na inicijativata e vash lichen sram, ama ste premnogu "patrioti" za da go sogledate ili priznajte to

no za srekja, vasheto vlijanie e tolku malo, da ne recham nikakvo, taka da shtetata ne e golema

[GStojanov]

Macedonians against NATO membership if we have to change the name

The vast marjority of Macedonianas, full 78.8% are against membership in NATO if we have to change our name to be admitted (62.2% from the entire population):

http://vecer.com.mk/?ItemID=CEDC8D17D74B5045A8DD1EDD8E3E9E64

[indigen]

The vast marjority of Macedonianas, full 78.8% are against membership in NATO if we have to change our name to be admitted (62.2% from the entire population):

http://vecer.com.mk/?ItemID=CEDC8D17...DD1EDD8E3E9E64

It is not clear to me what exactly the SPM (Socialist Party of Macedonia) mouthpiece "Vecer" (SPM boss Dzingo owns it and "Sitel" TV station and has been in coalition with "dpmne" since 2006.) is trying to say when using such language as not wanting to change the "constitutional name" in order to join NATO. That, IMO, could mean any number of options if we take into account all the double-speak involved in these name game intrigues. For instance, that could mean that people have been duped into not wanting to change the constitution in order to reflect in it a name for international use, which has been the mantra of the dpmne-ovcite, and they may well be happy to join NATO as BAJRAM or Republic of X but keep the "constitutional name" for home use (i.e. "not changing the 'constitutional name' in the constitution to reflect the international reality").

[Lügendetektor]

Nice picture. But your contradictions of pretending to use a freely chosen symbol (we cannot confirm whether this is true) and actually supporting the use of the ventilator, a symbol forced on the Macedonian people against their own will, are quite evident. What would you have us now believe? Are you willing to retract your previous support for Edi's ventilator promotion or are you in fact supporting treason or are you just confused?

Who asked me, by the etsablishing of an symbol which represents in todays meaning, an era - which today is (falsified) coined "hellenism", as the national flag od independent Macedonia?

No one, but i accepted it, as i accept that the temporary known national flag of Macedonia is the "ventilator".

But yes, i have my own mind, so i dont bother with ur guys discussion about a symbol.
But if u wanna discuss, let me ask u, when did ur communities started to use the sun of Kutlesh? I am honest, i have no knowledge about the use of that symbol in ur communities, so i would be pleased if someone can tell me more about it, so i might understand some (in my eyes) pathetic quotes here better.

My opinion is, that the sun is the real symbol of the Macedonians, but i dont fuckin care about the rays, because as it is shown here in the thread, Macedonians did not used exclusively a 16 rayed sun, except, in a era which i mentioned above...but even there it wasnt exclusively a Macedonian symbol.

Cheers

As i said in a quote above, u have no fuckin idea, so ask, and u might be smarter

[Risto the Great]

I thought the same thing. It has been such an unnecessarily complicated concept that we cannot be sure we are all talking about the same thing nowadays when we hear the "constitutional name" of Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

I think, on this forum at least, we have come to the conclusion that the phrase "constitutional name" is meaningless and could potentially even be anti-Macedonian.

[Vangelovski]

Lugendetektor,

The sonce has been used in the Australian Macedonian communities since the late 70's. In fact, if you did some basic research, you find that it was also used among independence-minded Macedonian patriots in Macedonia from that time as well. Some others on this forum may have further information.

The Sonce was also freely chosen by a democratically elected government. The ventilator was chosen by a government that rigged elections in order to maintain power and that was forced into choosing a new flag by a foreign government. Do you see the difference?

As for your line about a "hellenic" symbol (which isn't really "hellenic") being chosen as a Macedonian national flag, I don't think that you even you know what you're talking about.

[Pelister]

What has surprised me is that no politician has as yet used the ticket 'end the negotiations' as a campaign slogan. The politician who can do this, is likely to win the support of the people, and the people will slowly begin to realise that Gruevski has been deceiving them about the nature of the 'talks'. But politicians need to be clear about it, and clearly they are not. Your right Indigen, there has been so much tinkering, so many proposed 'deals' with qualifications and limitations on the use of the name 'Macedonia' and even what it means, that everyone is in the dark about what these politicians mean when they say it. I think that there is alot of treachery in all of this. I don't like any of it. The use of the terms 'constitutional name' is deeply problematic.

[Soldier of Macedon]

na prashanje da se odgovori so prashanje e hm...

Tvoeto prashanje nema vrednost. Ne mi e gajle ako go prakjat samo tekstot, novoto zname ich ne trebashe da se koristi, i tochka.

no za srekja, vasheto vlijanie e tolku malo, da ne recham nikakvo, taka da shtetata ne e golema

Haha, koi te smeta tebe bre, ne da daish nekoja vredna kritika, tuka ke mi brborish so ovie detski muabeti. Chuvai si go novoto zname, go ostavame za Makedonci kako tebe.

As i said in a quote above, u have no fuckin idea, so ask, and u might be smarter

When somebody writes something like this:

Who asked me, by the etsablishing of an symbol which represents in todays meaning, an era - which today is (falsified) coined "hellenism", as the national flag od independent Macedonia?

No one, but i accepted it, as i accept that the temporary known national flag of Macedonia is the "ventilator".

It is clear who has no idea. By your own fickle reasoning you would have accepted any flag.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The Macedonian people may be interpreting 'constitutional' in one way, but the government is almost certainly intending it in another.

[Belomorec]

How long? How long must we keep playing these stupid games? Honestly?

NO name change, no matter the cost. Simple.

Freedom or Death. Remember, Macedonians?

[Volk]

Freedom or Death. Remember, Macedonians?