Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Ljubanec]

How is Macedonia in a better position today than in 91, can you please clarify

You don't know!?

Have you been there in the 70's or 80's? Have you there in the 90's? Have you been there lately? Have you lived there at all?

[Vangelovski]

If you guys do not realize that we are in a better position now then we were back in 91, then I don't know what to say

In 1991, Macedonia was a Macedonian state. Now it is the state of various peoples who, according to our new Ramkovist constitution are all equal co-constitutive nations of the Ramkovist State now known internationally as FYROM.

As for Gruevski, this has already been pointed out numerous times, but it seems that every apologist newcomer needs to make a fool of himself rather than reading up on what has already been posted or thinking for themselves. Gruevski is a traitor because he has accepted and continued to implement the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, among other treasonous acts. A name change would only be the final act of treason in a long line of capitulations that Gruevski and Ivanov have accepted and are selling to the Macedonian people as "necessary", just like their predecessors did.

[Soldier of Macedon]

One of you even suggested raping and killing Gruevski's wife and daughter.

Please be mindful of the following:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/about/

The Macedonian Truth Organisation has a dedicated website and forum where all topics concerning Macedonia and the Macedonian people are discussed. Statements and opinions range on the forum due to the various origins of the members, hence they are not the official view of the Macedonian Truth Organisation, which is impartial and not aligned with anything other than that which itself promotes. The view of the Macedonian Truth Organisation is expressed only through the official channels of the website.

The comment is unfortunate, and I am in no way condoning such threats, in fact, I totally disagree with them. However, 99.99% of us will not be held responsible for the words of an individual. It's like saying one our members (incorrectly) said 'Macedonians are Greeks' - sure, there may be a Greek member or two that have ventured down such a path, but that is not representative of all of us.

If you come across such comments that you consider inappropriate, let one of the admins know.

[indigen]

In 1991, Macedonia was a Macedonian state. Now it is the state of various peoples who, according to our new Ramkovist constitution are all equal co-constitutive nations of the Ramkovist State now known internationally as FYROM.

As for Gruevski, this has already been pointed out numerous times, but it seems that every apologist newcomer needs to make a fool of himself rather than reading up on what has already been posted or thinking for themselves. Gruevski is a traitor because he has accepted and continued to implement the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, among other treasonous acts. A name change would only be the final act of treason in a long line of capitulations that Gruevski and Ivanov have accepted and are selling to the Macedonian people as "necessary", just like their predecessors did.

Vangelovski, You make an excellent (even ideal) spokesperson and ideologist for the Macedonian Cause! Thanks for the CLEAR and CONCISE articulation of the main points relevant to this discussion!

So pochit,
I.

[Ljubanec]

In 1991, Macedonia was a Macedonian state. Now it is the state of various peoples who, according to our new Ramkovist constitution are all equal co-constitutive nations of the Ramkovist State now known internationally as FYROM.

As for Gruevski, this has already been pointed out numerous times, but it seems that every apologist newcomer needs to make a fool of himself rather than reading up on what has already been posted or thinking for themselves. Gruevski is a traitor because he has accepted and continued to implement the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement, among other treasonous acts. A name change would only be the final act of treason in a long line of capitulations that Gruevski and Ivanov have accepted and are selling to the Macedonian people as "necessary", just like their predecessors did.

There will be no name change, but you and a few others here wish it would happen. To illustrate that we are "fool apologist newcomers". Btw have viewed this forum since its inception only just recently started posting. So I am not a newcomer, I am not apologizing for Gruevski so I'm not an apologist. I don't post random pictures of goats so I am not a fool. Maybe we can discuss ideas in a civilized manner or you can insult people and hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

[Ljubanec]

Please be mindful of the following:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/about/

The comment is unfortunate, and I am in no way condoning such threats, in fact, I totally disagree with them. However, 99.99% of us will not be held responsible for the words of an individual. It's like saying one our members (incorrectly) said 'Macedonians are Greeks' - sure, there may be a Greek member or two that have ventured down such a path, but that is not representative of all of us.

If you come across such comments that you consider inappropriate, let one of the admins know.

I am mindful and I didn't say everyone said that. I said one person did. I can't find the comment any longer so I assume it has been deleated. Don't have anything against the poster who wrote it, except that I disagree with him on this comment.

[Vangelovski]

There will be no name change, but you and a few others here wish it would happen. To illustrate that we are "fool apologist newcomers". Btw have viewed this forum since its inception only just recently started posting. So I am not a newcomer, I am not apologizing for Gruevski so I'm not an apologist. I don't post random pictures of goats so I am not a fool. Maybe we can discuss ideas in a civilized manner or you can insult people and hide behind the anonymity of the internet.

If you have been reading the posts on this forum then you would not have been repeating the same tired old rubbish that you have. Seeing as Gruevski and Ivanov have already accepted FYROM, your comments are ridiculous.

As for anonymity, YOU are the one hiding behind a fake internet name. Again, if you have been reading this forum, you should realise by now that my REAL NAME is Tom Vangelovski and I live in Canberra, Australia.

You don't need to post pictures of goats to be a fool, you are doing a good enough job as it is.

[Ljubanec]

If you have been reading the posts on this forum then you would not have been repeating the same tired old rubbish that you have. Seeing as Gruevski and Ivanov have already accepted FYROM, your comments are ridiculous.

As for anonymity, YOU are the one hiding behind a fake internet name. Again, if you have been reading this forum, you should realise by now that my REAL NAME is Tom Vangelovski and I live in Canberra, Australia.

You don't need to post pictures of goats to be a fool, you are doing a good enough job as it is.

It only took a few minutes for that retort! Ouch! What time is it down there 7:00 am? Wow, Tom you are a sharp one in the morning!

[Vangelovski]

It only took a few minutes for that retort! Ouch! What time is it down there 7:00 am? Wow, Tom you are a sharp one in the morning!

Its 11am, but I work better at night.

[Ljubanec]

Its 11am, but I work better at night.

Working as a troll for this forum doesn't pay much.

But since you are a mental midget, maybe you could enlighten me as to why Gruevski is lobbying other countries to recognize us by our constitutional name. Why are we putting up a statue of Alexander in Macedonia square. Note that it is Macedonia square not Fyrom as you would like it.

[Vangelovski]

Working as a troll for this forum doesn't pay much.

But since you are a mental midget, maybe you could enlighten me as to why Gruevski is lobbying other countries to recognize us by our constitutional name. Why are we putting up a statue of Alexander in Macedonia square. Note that it is Macedonia square not Fyrom as you would like it.

What lobbying has he undertaken? You mean Zimbabwe? To what purpose, when he continues negotiations and all these "recognitions" are on a conditional bilateral basis, due to modification should an agreement be reached with Greece?

What does a statue have to do with anything? Perhaps he can point it out to weak minded fools as "credentials" of his patriotism while he implements treasonous agreements that have destroyed Macedonian sovereignty and turned what was a Macedonian state into a multi-national state of an innumerable amount of "peoples" (see the Ramkovist Constitution, Amendment IV).

[Soldier of Macedon]

Ljubanec, what is Gruevski negotiating with Greece?

[Ljubanec]

Ljubanec, what is Gruevski negotiating with Greece?

I do not agree with the negotiations. It is a waste of time. What I disagree with is calling Gruevski a Traitor. I think this takes away from the purpose of this forum.


I think it was much more fun reading comments about dora bakoyanni being a horse faced drag queen, but instead we hear bullshit comments about the prime minister.

Tom, post the agreement signed by Zimbabwe and Macedonia. You are making assumptions as to what was written. I have not heard that this was an agreement subject to Greece's approval.

I assume that Gruevski is bluffing and keeping the spotlight on the name issue, but since we don't know what is going on I can't say weather he is selling us out or not.

[Vangelovski]

Tom, post the agreement signed by Zimbabwe and Macedonia. You are making assumptions as to what was written. I have not heard that this was an agreement subject to Greece's approval.

I'm not sure where to even begin with this one...but its certainly a case of YOU not knowing what's going on. State's do not sign agreements recognising each others 'statehood'. Recognition is ussually assumed and diplomatic relations are normally established by an exchange of diplomatic notes no longer than one sentance. If Macedonia were to accept a name change through the negotiations its having with Greece, then all of these countries would recognise that new name, largely based on the principle of common sense, much like they are doing now. Further, these countries only use Macedonia's state name on a bilateral basis. Turkey is the only country which uses Macedonia's state name outside of a bilateral basis, that I'm aware of, and that is only in the case of NATO.

You really need to do some more research, because at the moment, someone posting pictures of goats would be making more sense than you are.

[Vangelovski]

I think it was much more fun reading comments about dora bakoyanni being a horse faced drag queen, but instead we hear bullshit comments about the prime minister.

That is because you do not really understand the critical issues facing Macedonia.