Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Prolet]

Hi Rogi

Both Governments have denied this, Gruevski did warn that lots of stories will start floating around this period. It seems like you've fallen right into the trap set by the Greek Media.

[DedoAleko]

Sitel today: " Неофицијлано, во игра е Република Вардарска Македонија на кое инистира Грција и Република Македонија (Вардар) кое е поприфатливо за македонската страна.
Доколку се постигне компромис за првиот термин, Грчките медиуми објавија дека Папандреу е подготвен да ја прифати двојната формула, што значи новото име би се користело само во билатералната комуникација со Грција."

“…Off the record, on the table is Republic of Vardar Macedonia on which Greece insists and Republic of Macedonia (Vardar), which is more acceptable for the Macedonian side.

If there is compromise on the first term (R. of Vardar Macedonia), Greek media reported that Papandreou is ready to accept the double formula, which means the new name would be used only in bilateral communication with Greece….”

izvor: http://sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedoni...edonija-vardar

[Eddie_rebel]

Грк од САД за Македонија и нејзиното име.

Поучно блог интервју со George Stathopoulos кој е со грчко потекло и живее во САД. За Македонија тој вели дека исто како и многу други Грци кои живеат во САД, го подржува нејзиниот засебен идентитет и историски потврдените разлики.

1. Можеш ли да ни кажеш нешто повеќе за себе?

Well I am currently a student at Loyola University Chicago, and I study biology hoping to get into medical school here any maybe practice in Europe. However my true passions are literature, history, and philosophy. Also for the record I am half Greek and half Polish/French.

2. Си ја посетил ли Република Македонија? Имаш ли можеби пријатели Македонци?

Oh yes, I have been to Macedonia twice. I met many people there, and the Greco-EU stereotypes really aren’t true, I told many on my stance and Greek ethnicity and they were very nice to it, I have been to wonderful places like Lake Ohrid and many other small villages which hold preserved history. Also, yes I do have Macedonia friends.

3. Каков е твојот став во врска со спорот за името?

Macedonia is Macedonia. Calling Macedonia the Former Yugo Republic, is like calling Greece the Former Ottoman Republic, or Poland the former Soviet Republic, or Northern Italy the former French republic and vice versa. It is simply not logical as to why you would want to add that to a name. As for the history of it, it is quite clear that Greeks and Macedonians were distinct groups. Now before someone harrows me with a biased history lesson from “Macedonian propaganda” I assure you that as a history major I only study the finest history from Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, and other publications and they all treat Macedonians distinct from Greeks. I believe this confusion rose with the ancient Macedonians (whom were allied with Greeks under Alexander’s reign) having so much being shared. The devotion of Aristotle to Alexander, Alexander reading Greek literature by Homer and speaking it as a secondary language, and Hellenism being a culture in Alexander’s empire. However, did the Romans not do this? Also the Egyptians to a certain point? In fact the Romans could have well done it much more than the Macedonians did, but why isn’t the Roman Empire and modern Italy called Greek? The language was simply an intellectual barrier of the time. Just like we are speaking English now, does not mean we are British.

4. Повеќето Македонци немаат ништо против името на грчкиот регион Македонија. Зошто грчката влада е против името на Република Македонија

I think Northern Greece is northern Greece, and that’s what most people in Greece call it. I never hear them saying Sparta, or Thrace, or Cretans, simply the geopolitical areas and directions in Greece. The whole “glamour” of the Greek north being called Macedonia was emphasized when this issue arose quite honestly. But for me a name is a name, even though I personally believe Macedonia deserves the name. But this naming controversy has happened in many places: Belgium, France, Ireland, Poland, Ukraine, etc. It is nothing new.

5. Некои грчки владини претставници имаат изјавено дека Република Македонија треба да си го промени името за да нема забуна со грчкиот регион Македонија. Дали “Република” пред Македонија не е доволно за да се направи разлика?

I’m trying to brush up on my history, would Republic of Macedonia and Macedonia not be the same thing? Adding Republic is simply the technicality after the government is formed just like there was a Republic of Greece after the Ottoman rule. For me Macedonia is Macedonia, and adding Republic would just be the same thing I guess. As for confusion, I think that’s a silly reason provided by the Greek government, there would be no confusion unless someone has no knowledge of common geography whatsoever.

6. Според тебе какво е генералното мислење во Грција за Македонија и спорот за името?

In Greece, there were the nationalists and the commoners. The nationalists thought that Macedonians stole their history. The commoners didn’t really care, they cared more about the economic crisis. The modern Greece reminds me too much of France, the people are picky of their rights, income, benefits, labour opportunities, they could care less about defending a name, if they did then there wouldn’t be mass protests where Greeks themselves burn the flag of Greece. I have seen many Macedonian tourists in Greece and they just went about with the rest of the tourists there, not too many people cared unless you ran into some nationalists. It’s sort of like being German or Russian and visiting Poland, some will care, others won’t.

7. Каде ти го гледаш решението за спород за името?

I think eventually Macedonia will gain its name, Greece has made the issue over-rated, I don’t think that a few Greek politicians are going to win over, especially when they’re losing overall support from the public every day.

8. Како Грците и Македонците од непријатели да станат пријатели?

Well what every country does, globalize I suppose. Greece and Macedonia share many cultures and struggles being in the area that they are, from ancient times to modern. Religion has also been a strong factor in the issue which has seemed to ease matters. I personally don’t see Macedonians and Greeks as enemies though, in this world nationalism has caused many more severe violence and even in Europe where many people are dying, I would consider those people true enemies. I think Greece and Macedonia just have some hassles to sort out. Basically, Greeks should stop being so nationalistic and Macedonians should seek beyond the words of the Greek government which cannot always be trusted.

9. Наместо да биде причина за расправа и ѕид кој ќе не дели, може ли античката историја да биде мост кој ќе ги спојува и двете земји, и Грција и Македонија?

Oh yes, ancient Macedonia is a true reason why Ancient Greek culture survives. Alexander did a swell job in spreading Hellenism and influencing Greco-Macedonia thought throughout the Arab world and even to the point of the Roman Empire. It was ancient Macedonia that has so much esteem to ancient Greece and there are many ancient writings that show this. The ancient history has many ties, I always imagined what people like Plato or Alexander would say if they were alive today, they would probably be surprised at the modern states.

10. Имаш ли некаква порака до Македонците?

Hm, not really. I guess it’s not to get angry over what few idiots might say on a forum or YouTube video. Life is short and you should enjoy it, there will always be ignorant people to get in your way of it, even your culture. Truth is no one can erase your identity if you truly want it, and this is especially true for Macedonia after having been through so much in history.

[ArMakedon]

За нас е прифатливо само Македонија без придавки и додавки.

[Makedonetz]

I believe this person should stick to studying Biology as their history about our country and his few explanations construed in what he is saying. Alexsander was a warrior and military, knowing your enemy's from the inside out was crucial and that is why he made his empire vast! Hell i enjoy chinese culture and history maybe that makes me half chinese

[Eddie_rebel]

Што лошо кажа човекот?

[Makedonetz]

Дали се согласувате со овој одговор тој спомена Македонија беше клучна за ширење на Хеленизмот?

"Oh yes, ancient Macedonia is a true reason why Ancient Greek culture survives. Alexander did a swell job in spreading Hellenism and influencing Greco-Macedonia thought throughout the Arab world and even to the point of the Roman Empire."

He is sounding like a grkoman or Bulgariman


Кои се вашите размислувања Еди бунтовник?

[julie]

Rogi, I agree with you
Prolet what "trap" are you talking about?
The governments are traiterous, negotiations and name changes and referendums are not the diaspora will

[Eddie_rebel]

Кога бараш влакно во јајцето несомнено ќе го најдеш. И на најголемиот патриот човек може маана да му најде, ако тоа е поентата.

he is sounding like a grkoman or bulgariman

Гркоман кој ти признава и име и историја и идентитет, мора да се шегуваш.

[Makedonetz]

Eddie all im saying is some of his replys to these questions are anti-macedonian surely you can see it?

I think Northern Greece is northern Greece, and that’s what most people in Greece call it

He flips from one side of the fence to another....Isn''t that the issue were facing at the moment with this damn EU name negoitiations about the above statement.

[fyrOM]

The benefits of joining the eu are becoming questionable considering if Macedonia would be obliged to contribute to pay Greece’s debts and like any relationship where finances are shared you don’t want to partner up with a drunk or a compulsive gambler or shopaholic ie meaning the eu in general. But assuming the eu realises the mistakes that have brought them to their current situation and take steps to remedy this so for argument sake we can put these issues aside to concentrate on the name for a moment.

If there is compromise on the first term (R. of Vardar Macedonia), Greek media reported that Papandreou is ready to accept the double formula, which means the new name would be used only in bilateral communication with Greece….”


If it became a proposition for a bilateral name to be ONLY for use with Greece AND the name Republic of Macedonia for use with everyone else in the world is it such a bad thing. I’m inclined to think it is a viable option but cannot stop feeling like I am missing something important and about to stumble into a trap. Is it my imagination playing up or can any out there shed some more light on this scenario if indeed it saw the light of day and a referendum was being organised.

I know it’s a compromise like going to a party and everyone there calls you Macedonia but one guy in the corner gets the right to call you Fred. Why should you belittle yourself to even allow this but if it ends the whole issue and Macedonia can move forward my thinking is over time even that guy calling you Fred will be made to feel silly by everyone else until eventually even they feel silly themselves and give up the chest beating and start calling you Macedonia.

Where would such a scenario leave us with regards to Albania and Bulgaria and the minorities there. I’m thinking if RoM achieved establishing her name then shouldn’t the Macedonians in the other parts be able to point to RoM and say they identify with them as Macedonians.

The sticking point would be with the Macedonians in Egej because of the bilateral name would they unfortunately be left with the only option to call themselves Fred Macedonians if they wanted to claim themselves as not identifying as ethnic Greeks. As mentioned above the Greeks will probably eventually start feeling silly about the situation of being the only people on earth calling Macedonia something else other than just Macedonia and hence the ethnic label for the Macedonians in Egej may also change. The big BUT in this is how would the Macedonians in Egej feel about taking one for the team and is this a reasonable request if it means a deal can finally be made and the name issue settled. There is a big assumption here and that is are there any moves to include the recognition of minorities in these talks.

[Eddie_rebel]

Она што ние го нарекуваме Егејска Македонија, денес територијално (економски, политички, јурисдикциски...) е во рамките на Р. Грција те е нејзин северен дел. Што е збуната тука? Не по врат по шија. Нема потреба да му се фаќа кусур само поради тривијалната причина дека терминологијата не ни се допаѓала.

...Не ни брани ние да го викаме Егејска Македонија, ниту пак негира дека некогаш било дел од Македонија. Не негира дека постојат Македонци кои живеат таму...

[Risto the Great]

Religion has also been a strong factor in the issue which has seemed to ease matters.

Religion (especially the Patriarchate brand) created all of this mess my dear man.

[El Bre]

Makedonetz, I think you're trying to read between lines that aren't actually there.

In the statement you quoted above I believe what he's saying is that Greeks don't actually call GOM, Macedonia.

[Risto the Great]

I would like to think there are many moderate Greeks like this in the Diaspora. But the truth is that most do not know a single thing about history and just talk like Greek puppets. If they are in the company of Macedonians from youth, they tend to have a similar outlook to this guy. Otherwise, they are ignorantly dangerous.