Risto Stefov - Articles, Translations & Collaborations

[Rogi]

Oh PLEASE! Are you kidding me?

Perhaps the Albanians might be more so fanatical these days with their greater Albania.
The Greeks are much more fanatical about their 'Megali idea' than anyone else!

In Greece you have this (below). I wonder do you have to keep reiterating the propaganda inside your own country, in order keep people believing it...

[TerraNova]

Oh PLEASE! Are you kidding me?

Perhaps the Albanians might be more so fanatical these days with their greater Albania.
The Greeks are much more fanatical about their 'Megali idea' than anyone else!

In Greece you have this (below). I wonder do you have to keep reiterating the propaganda inside your own country, in order keep people believing it...

Rogi, "Megali Idea" is a dead ideology since 1923.

Perhaps it lives in the heads of sa handful of extreme lunatics -their parties take less than 0.1% in the elections.
I tell you again -if "Great Greece maps" were sold in a tourist shop,every Greek would find it weird and extreme!

As for your pic...you ,and many of your compatriots, misunderstand this moto-
"Macedonia is Greek " is about Greek Macedonia.
Believe me ,the one who painted this,didn't have Skopje or Veles in mind at all!!!!

[Rogi]

Right, yes I am sure you are right. Nonetheless, it seems that sort of thing 'needs' to be promoted throughout Aegean Macedonia to keep reminding the ethnic Macedonians to be afraid.


So which part of Macedonia does this (below) refer to, which was being handed out on the streets of Lerin earlier this year. In fact, why don't you translate it for everyone here and then add your apologist spin to this one (that would be interesting):



Megali idea? What Megali idea? Right?!?

[Demos]

Right, yes I am sure you are right. Nonetheless, it seems that sort of thing 'needs' to be promoted throughout Aegean Macedonia to keep reminding the ethnic Macedonians to be afraid.


So which part of Macedonia does this (below) refer to, which was being handed out on the streets of Lerin earlier this year. In fact, why don't you translate it for everyone here and then add your apologist spin to this one (that would be interesting):



Megali idea? What Megali idea? Right?!?

Rogi,

That's a banner from Golden Dawn which is a Greek Neo-Nazi party. I doubt they have more than 2000 members in a country of 11.3 million. That party does not represent the average Greek. When Greeks say "Macedonian is Greek" they are referring to ancient Macedonia and our region of Macedonia alone. We couldn't care less about Bitola, Skopje, Kumanovo etc.

[TerraNova]

Rogi,

That's a banner from Golden Dawn which is a Greek Neo-Nazi party. I doubt they have more than 2000 members in a country of 11.3 million. That party does not represent the average Greek. When Greeks say "Macedonian is Greek" they are referring to ancient Macedonia and our region of Macedonia alone. We couldn't care less about Bitola, Skopje, Kumanovo etc.

........+1

[Risto the Great]

+10,000,000 in support of Golden Dawn's attitude towards Macedonia based on my research.
So all of Greece believes Ancient Macedonia was Greek, therefore a bit of Heraclea sprinkled with a bit of Pelagonia would be completely on their agenda. It would be illogical to exclude these regions under your stupid and baseless assumptions. Don't you think it is irresponsible for your Government to perpetuate this myth? Isn't it the age old debate about antiquity that makes Greeks (bewilderingly) believe they have some claim here? So we return to 2000 year old arguments. One of your apologetic friends quite simply refused to comment on the last 1500 years of Macedonia's history. It was hilarious.

Greeks on this forum, please never use a "+1" to respond to another Greek's statement. It will be deleted in the future. If you feel it adds more weight to the argument, then please attempt to clarify or add more substance to the preceding apologetic statement ... like in this case.

[Demos]

+10,000,000 in support of Golden Dawn's attitude towards Macedonia based on my research.
So all of Greece believes Ancient Macedonia was Greek, therefore a bit of Heraclea sprinkled with a bit of Pelagonia would be completely on their agenda. It would be illogical to exclude these regions under your stupid and baseless assumptions. Don't you think it is irresponsible for your Government to perpetuate this myth? Isn't it the age old debate about antiquity that makes Greeks (bewilderingly) believe they have some claim here? So we return to 2000 year old arguments. One of your apologetic friends quite simply refused to comment on the last 1500 years of Macedonia's history. It was hilarious.

Greeks on this forum, please never use a "+1" to respond to another Greek's statement. It will be deleted in the future. If you feel it adds more weight to the argument, then please attempt to clarify or add more substance to the preceding apologetic statement ... like in this case.

Risto,

You guys can keep Heraklea. We have plenty of Macedonian archaeological sites within Greece and adding one more doesn't really add anything of value. Let me know if you ever need me to translate anything for you from the findings of the ancient Macedonian town of Heraklea.

[TerraNova]

+10,000,000 in support of Golden Dawn's attitude towards Macedonia based on my research.
So all of Greece believes Ancient Macedonia was Greek, therefore a bit of Heraclea sprinkled with a bit of Pelagonia would be completely on their agenda. It would be illogical to exclude these regions under your stupid and baseless assumptions. Don't you think it is irresponsible for your Government to perpetuate this myth? Isn't it the age old debate about antiquity that makes Greeks (bewilderingly) believe they have some claim here? So we return to 2000 year old arguments. One of your apologetic friends quite simply refused to comment on the last 1500 years of Macedonia's history. It was hilarious.

Greeks on this forum, please never use a "+1" to respond to another Greek's statement. It will be deleted in the future. If you feel it adds more weight to the argument, then please attempt to clarify or add more substance to the preceding apologetic statement ... like in this case.

Where did you see an "Apology" ?
You just can't understand what Greeks mean by "Macedonia is Greek" and this was a clarification.
Now can you give me an explanation about what "Macedonia for the Macedonians" ,or what maps of United Macedonia mean in 2008? (or an apology if you prefer...)

[Risto the Great]

I still do not understand the Macedonia is Greek bullshit.
Why shouldn't this be challenged?
Your most fervent Philhellenes describe a short HellenISTIC period. With the rest of Macedonia's history being quite distinct from Greece. Greeks have created this mess of lies, they need to defend it ... not Macedonians.

So ... why is Macedonia Greek?

[TerraNova]

I still do not understand the Macedonia is Greek bullshit.
Why shouldn't this be challenged?
Your most fervent Philhellenes describe a short HellenISTIC period. With the rest of Macedonia's history being quite distinct from Greece. Greeks have created this mess of lies, they need to defend it ... not Macedonians.

So ... why is Macedonia Greek?

You didn't answer me.
Since i m not here to apology,but to discuss ,you must first answer.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Of course there is reference of "Megali Idea" as it was part of the modern Greek history,in the 19th and early 20th cent.

So of course there is reference to a United Macedonia because it was a reality within the Ottoman Empire and a goal the Macedonians were trying to achieve by any and all means possible.

The map you probably imply is NOT map of "Megali Idea" ,...but Historical Reality,as it's borders are defined by the Treaties of Neiully and Sevres.
It's not about wishful thinking or fantastic "ethnic borders".

I know which map I am referring to and I know what the borders of the 'Megali Idea' were, just like I know that there is reference made to it in Greek history. Don't try and provide a poor justification with a farce of a treaty like the one at Sevres, which nobody took seriously anyway, "greater" Greece in the way envisioned by contemporary 'Greeks' was never a reality.

On the other hand when i was in Ohrid, in all shops i could find "UnitedMacedoniaMap" souvenirs!

So? Do they have messages such as "lets invade greece" engraved at the bottom of each souvenir? What's the problem, it is a historical map, not ambitious in an irredentist manner.

I would find it extremely nationalistic and ridiculous if i ever see a Single One similar "Great/UnitedGreece" map ,in a shop in Greece!

No need to go to a shop, just go and visit your local bishop in Salonika, I am sure he will be more than willing to advocate an invasion to "reclaim lost lands" in the Macedonian Republic or Turkey, as I am sure they have done in the past.

These books present as "ethnic borders of Macedonia" the geographical area which is known as Macedonia in mid 19th cent (U may call it united Macedonia)
This is absolutely false and besides...what on earth are the "ethnic borders"?!?!?

What exactly is false? Macedonians were the largest ethnic group in Macedonia, they don't have to live in every corner of Macedonia to consider it their home, because it is one compact and geographical unit. There is nothing false about it, so I would be mindful when making such indications in future, I could make the same accusation which would be more accurate about your current borders where the 'new territories' occupied in Macedonia and Thrace had the majority expanse of their lands without a single "ethnic" Greek in sight.

By the way, we have already spent several pages trying to explain what 'ethnicity' is to you in all diplomatic forms, you are oblivious to all explanations because whichever one you end up residing with it will be to your detriment, you cannot endlessly defend a pack of lies so you choose to run in circles with the same argument. Don't let this childish confusion of yours spill over here, if you are that confused, open a thread and ask people to explain the concept of 'ethnicity' to you.

Ok get your spear and shield ,i ll get mine and let's meet at the borders

Spear and shield? You mean you will not wear your traditional Albanian dress and funny looking fluff ball shoes? Damn, the Macedonians were expecting the circus from south of the border to arrive first.

[osiris]

terra nova why is the albanian costume considered your modern nationla dress. why is a woman who spke less than 10 words of greek held up as a hellenoc heroine. why do greeks conveninatly forget their history and lecture others about theirs.

[Risto the Great]

You didn't answer me.
Since i m not here to apology,but to discuss ,you must first answer.

SoM gave you a great answer.
But if you read your statement, you made an assumption ... then you asked questions relating to that assumption. This is not Scientology here, we don't have to assume something stupid so that everything else makes sense. The onus is on you.

You just can't understand what Greeks mean by "Macedonia is Greek" and this was a clarification.
Now can you give me an explanation about what "Macedonia for the Macedonians" ,or what maps of United Macedonia mean in 2008? (or an apology if you prefer...)

So, clarify your assumption and then I will point you to SoM's answer.

[TerraNova]

terra nova why is the albanian costume considered your modern nationla dress.

YouTube - Macedonian Folk Dance - Pajduško Oro

YouTube - Macedonian Folklore 2

YouTube - Folk dances and songs ensemble-Tanec,Macedonia (Part6)

[TerraNova]

So of course there is reference to a United Macedonia because it was a reality within the Ottoman Empire and a goal the Macedonians were trying to achieve by any and all means possible.


What exactly is false? Macedonians were the largest ethnic group in Macedonia, they don't have to live in every corner of Macedonia to consider it their home, because it is one compact and geographical unit.

Douglas Dakin (Berkley University , California , US) , 1966

The Greek struggle in Macedonia : 1897-1913

CHAPTER A : MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIAN QUESTION

1. Macedonia : extension and importance

At the begining of the 20th century under the term "Macedonia" one usually defined the three turkish "vilaets" (administrive regions) of Thessalonike , Monastiri (Bitola) and Skopje/Kosovo [*1] . In a more strict sense the term included the vilaet of Thessalonike and those parts of the other two vilaets that in 1902 formed an administrative unit of the Ottoman Empire and under the supervision of a General Inspector underwent into reforms. There wasn't any other accepted definition of Macedonia.
In modern times , Macedonia never constituted a phyletic , linguistic or political entity , not even administrative before 1902.
Macedonia wasn't even a defined geographical term [*2].

-----NOTES-----

[*1] The Turks , trying to contain the Bulgarian element , had divided the old Thessalonike County and had created those three vilaets. The Albanians should be the predominant element in the vilaeti of Kosovo/Skopje , the Greeks in the vilaet of Monastir , meanwhile Greeks and Turks should "balance" the Bulgarians in the new vilaet of Thessalonike.

[*2] "Macedonia" was a historical-geographical term based on hazy memories and blank of geographical meaning. During the Middle Ages it included even Herzegovina. Vanished under the Ottomans - the Turks spoke only about Rumeli - the term was revitalized after the rebirth of Classic Studies only to be used vaguely and with political wilfulness.