Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and his Macedonian ancestry

[Ottoman]

When Europe was burning heretics and witches the Ottomans were inventing things (the first man flying was an Ottoman for example)

I agree with you that present day Balkan nations are a mess but dont forget there were many wars fought on the Balkans, its not easy to recover from such many tragedy.

Second of course the Turkish language has his loanwords !! almost every language has, but we dont replace them with Turkish words.

Greeks did because they cannot handle it.

[Risto the Great]

Hey, I almost agree with everything by the both of you.

[Agamoi Thytai]

In the Ottoman Empire everybody was equal because everyone was considered as an Ottoman,

Every MUSLIM was perhaps equal,with Christians the case was different,they were definitely second class citizens.Why do you think many Christians converted to Islam?Did Muslims pay as many taxes as the Christians?Were they obliged to pay the infamous harats?(decapitation tax)

you just dont need to forget that the Turks spread Ottoman culture all over the Balkans, you will find many Turkish elements in every almost Balkan nation; their cuisine, clothing, art, architecture, lifestyle and even languages are heavily influenced by Turkish elements.

Does it mean the Ottoman conquest had some positive impact on the lifes of Balkan people?The Turks also spread backwardness throughout the Balkans.This is very easy to be understood by every Westerner who steps his foot over here.

The Serbian and Greek languages have/had many Turkish words in them. However Greece replaced many of those words with Greek ones.

Do you know how many of these "Turkish" words are actually of Turkish origin and not Arabic or Persian loanwords?Or maybe you believe Turkish has not Greek loanwords?

[Ottoman]

hahahahaha
Do you know greek?
Explain to me the differences in that case, outside the normal dialectical differences all languages have.
Different language, lol.

You want to hear one big difference?

There is proof that Greeks have Ethiopian roots and Sumerians (first civilization on earth) were proto-Turks.

Many modern Greeks just look like Turks which is pretty normal because of the Ottoman occupation for centuries.

Greek cuisine is a copy of Turkish cuisine. Modern Greek architecture has Ottoman origins, the reason you guys got rid of the togas and began to wear proper clothes was because of the Turks. Greek dances are also a copy of Turkish dances (especially fom the Black Sea region)

You guys didnt even know what dancing was before the Turks came, you guys didnt even know what falling in love or having sex (with women) was before the Turks came.

We teached you to cook, we teached you to dress, we teached you to dance, we teached you to fall in love and have sex with women, whats more? even the Greek language had many Turkish words in it, but the Greeks replaced many of those words with Greek ones.

I can go on all day long but I think you got the point.

[Ottoman]

This is true because Turks never aimed to convert people to Islam or forced everyone to accept Turkish identity. Ottoman Empire was always multi-cultural state since the 1st day of its foundation. It was never a pure Turkish state for Turks only. If it would be like that, Turks could easily assimilate and convert everyone in whole Balkans as muslims and Turks in 600 years. If Greeks did this in 100 years, why Turks wouldn't in 600 years with all that richness and nearly unbeatable power??? because Turks never wanted to do that.

In the Ottoman Empire everybody was equal because everyone was considered as an Ottoman, you just dont need to forget that the Turks spread Ottoman culture all over the Balkans, you will find many Turkish elements in every almost Balkan nation; their cuisine, clothing, art, architecture, lifestyle and even languages are heavily influenced by Turkish elements.

The Serbian and Greek languages have/had many Turkish words in them. However Greeks replaced many of those words with Greek ones.

[Ottoman]

Ataturk his ancestors were from Karaman, they were Turkmens (Oghuz Turks) and definitely not Albanian or Macedonian.

Here is a source in Turkish: http://www.yorumla.net/m-kemal-atatu...e-dayanir.html

This is the first time I hear that Ataturk is partly Macedonian, as far as I and most Turks know he was Turkmen.

[Spartan]

edit.............

[Bill77]

Spitting the dummy again are you spartan???? You are a toser mate.

Onur, you are whaisting your time with this racist fake idiot. Keep up the good work onur, You are a A1 contributor friend.

[Spartan]

I meant mutual intelligibility between Pontic immigrant and your braveheart Maniate people.

You should have stated so

I know that modern Greek speakers can hardly or don't understand a Greek from Istanbul when they speak their ancient tongue.

Stupidest thing ive ever heard....what 'ancient toungue'?

Spartan, you are playing with words when you are out of counter-arguments

I have countered everything youve said
What words am i playing with?
You on the other hand have neither countered or responded to any of my questions!
Wanna give it a go?

I have asked you 2 times on this thread if you still stand by the statement thet 'no blood was spilled between 1453-1821'.
I have also asked you this - If possible, could you explain the good(benefits/positive experiences) the Ottoman occupation had on the Balkans?
What are your thoughts on the European rennaissance, and age of knowledge/enlightenment?

The Turks, at times throughout their 350 yr reign in the Morea, didnt have full control of southern lakonia, and the maniates retained some semblence of independence....thats all im saying....do you disagree?

Go back and quote which historical facts I have denied.

Do you know greek?
Explain to me the differences in that case, outside the normal dialectical differences all languages have

Can you point out the contradictions in my stance?

Can you answer any of the above, as I have answered all your questions!!?

or you start name calling me like "Mongols, dogs" like u did above.

Like I said, be a man...If you can dish it , take it.... You told me my forefathers are a 'fairytale'.
I said yours are 'dogs' in an effort to make a point which obviously escaped you.....

I don't think its possible to have healthy conversation with you cuz you are very stubborn and self-opinionated.

HAHAHAHAH
Sounds like white towel time Onur

So, i wont enter arguments with you about these Turks vs Greeks issues cuz i don't think its possible to reach a common ground.

You wont enter these arguments because you have none in regards to this topic.
Next time, hopefully you'll think twice before entering a debate amongst MEN....

[julie]

in 10 years lets hope that RoM wont be partitioned off as well the way the bullshit seems to be flying in this 21st century. Because we will only exist in our own hearts.

[Prolet]

Julie, Spolaj Ti Mnogu Sestro

We do live in the 21st century here, surly we have the right to exist. Maybe in 10 years time things will be different.

[julie]

Prolet, Osiris has said it well.
It will never happen, the support HellAss receive from yankee doodles and the west to destabilise Macedonia
what has hope got to do with it, bratchko ?

[osiris]

because we have a nation that lives a fantasy that creates hatred and bullies whoever the can at every opportunity
because we live near a medieval nation hells arse and until they change and i cant see it happening soon we will continue to have problems in the balkans.

[Prolet]

Onur, If it was that easy we'd all be friends now but its hard to negotiate with Greeks especially those who are born to hate you.

Either way maybe one day things will be different, there is always room for hope. The rivalries will always be there but there is no need to behave like animals, if the Germans,Dutch,French can all get along i dont see why we cant in the Balkans.

[Onur]

What do you care if I 'discriminate' against other greeks or not?

Your point being?
I consider Turks to be dogs....do you care?

hahahahaha
Do you know greek?
Explain to me the differences in that case, outside the normal dialectical differences all languages have.
Different language, lol.

I meant mutual intelligibility between Pontic immigrant and your braveheart Maniate people. I know that modern Greek speakers can hardly or don't understand a Greek from Istanbul when they speak their ancient tongue.

Spartan, you are playing with words when you are out of counter-arguments or you start name calling me like "Mongols, dogs" like u did above. I don't think its possible to have healthy conversation with you cuz you are very stubborn and self-opinionated.

So, i wont enter arguments with you about these Turks vs Greeks issues cuz i don't think its possible to reach a common ground.