The secrets of Macedonian civilization!

[Risto the Great]

Exploring our history is not a step back from anything, it moves us forward armed with knowledge.

Here is a thought whilst you are feeling exploratory. Find out who the people were that voted to get rid of our MAIN SYMBOL (the one that bound all Macedonians around the world). Once you are armed with that knowledge, let us know who is left to vote for nowadays. We can then look for the mysterious Macedonian ancient penis symbols.

Its only a step back when we give up on the Kutlesko Sonce

We agree. It is a step back.

[Bratot]

You know I do and you are trying to cause friction here by trying open an old wound from about two years ago. But who knows if by now others have not changed their misguided views due to deeper analysis?

It's your choice only if you wish to make up something to believe in or you seek the truth and you only strenghten your beliefs and knowledge.

You know I know you would like to see everyone to give up from their own reasoning and to borrow a brain from you.

Secondly, I was not translating that example but I saw (and see) no difference in reality. You should re-evaluate the links you provide in future because that museum link is a NATIONAL DISGRACE.

There are two posibilities only:

1. You made incorrect translation;

2. You made incorrect translation on purpose.

or eventually.. you didn't know the difference of those terms, which is also big posibility.

Discrediting an existing artifact because it has been cathegorized under invented chronological definer is an entirely muddle-headed way of understanding history as a science.

I'm convinced you have never visited any Macedonian museum and you have never seen in reality any of the Macedonian historical symbols or artifacts with your own eyes, so why we are still discussing with you in a first place?

I was aware of Borza's claim about the time when you were in pre-school, if not earlier!

It is not Borza's claim only and yet you are admitting to support with full heart the biggest Greek propaganda lie in the last century.

Another pure example of your vrtsuka standards.

Greek finding seems to be more realiable for you.

But you and your ILK are lacking the ideological perspective in order to appreciate the SIGNIFICANCE and IMPORTANCE of that find for the Macedonian Cause and what the Macedonian Sun politically symbolises for Macedonian national existence and survival, especially the repercussion from the way it was publicly surrendered to our enemies.

Your ideology is being based generally on the things that are disputed by the Greeks and practically you are allowing them a main role in designing your 'ideology' and making you totally incapabe to look any further.


If the Greeks are the ones who should set my symbols than we have already lost.

I don't say we should give up of any symbol they dispute, but limiting our reach historical legacy is as much anti-Macedonian as giving up of the symbols.

I don't have to wait for the Greeks to come up with a claim for this symbol as well to start 'defending' it and perceiving as Macedonian.

Well, I can't imagine why "TM" would start such a thread? I can also imagine how many ideologically misplaced conclusions you and him would come up with. :-))

I'm not going to answer you in his name, but you are seriously damaged.

That is a very LEFT WING inspired name, if I may note!

I wish you could get an inspiration to create anything by yourself (in this life) for our cause.

The IMPORTANT POINT, Brate, IS that YOU can not provide the MATERIAL EVIDENCE for your BOMBASTIC CLAIM about the supposedly wide and pervasive and CONTINUOUS use of the VRTUSKA and you are now trying to evade this direct challenge by DIVERSIONS - VETER I MAGLA reasoning.

The material evidence is all over this thread, I have no intention to cure your hurt ego after realizing you ingorancy.

It is not a poor argument but I have also added (for more clarification) some info to the original post and you can now take that into consideration. Ideological correctness would be MOST CRITICALLY OBSERVED in ALL Communist societies, even more so in those early "revolutionary" stages, I have no doubts about that. The history of Macedonians in "YugoSLAVIA" (and even now it continues along the same line) started with the "arrival" of the "Slavs" (mass migration) in the VI century and Macedonian ancient heritage was a TABOO topic, as you can read in some of the posts I have posted here by respected Macedonian activists from Macedonia.

The simple fact that during the 'Communists' era the bones of the greatest Macedonian patriot have been brought in the capital city of free Macedonia as he wished are speaking against you.

Everything else you blabled is only typical effort of defocusing this point.

You made no impression at all with your lame try to degrade this symbol, for the rest of people this thread can be relevant source about another Macedonian symbol enriching our general history knowledge.

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

You still have not provided any actual evidence that this "symbol of eternity" was used by ancient Macedonians, which was your original claim.

[Bratot]

Maybe you have to check your diopter Vangelovski or the ancient shield and the ancient coins are invisible only to you, who knows.

What other evidence should be provided if not the official currency or the military insignia?

[Soldier of Macedon]

And the Symbol of Eternity on a shield found in Zrze prilepsko:

Bratot, you have shown some examples of where the symbol has been used in Macedonia during antiquity, thanks for that. But none of it justifies the pathetic back-flip by the leaders of 'political' Dostoinstvo.

When is that shield dated? Is there any further information to it, like the people that used it, who reigned at the time in that region, etc.

Well, I can't imagine why "TM" would start such a thread? I can also imagine how many ideologically misplaced conclusions you and him would come up with. :-))

Was that really necessary? You're hardly flawless yourself in the ideological (and other) sense. And you're unprovoked attack is another testament to your lack of maturity. Grow up and stop behaving like a child, it does nothing for your credibility here. Maybe if you changed your tack just a little, more people would listen to your opinions, which are in most cases valid (except when you descend into an elementary state like you do from time to time).

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

You still have not provided any actual evidence that this "symbol of eternity" was used by ancient Macedonians, which was your original claim.

I may have missed the coins. Where did you post them? As for the shield, you have not provided any further information, no evidence that it even was Macedonian.

[Bratot]

SOM,

do you really think I would try to hoax unauthentic evidence?


"Antique Macedonian Shields from Pelagonija" is the title of the publication by archaeologist Dusko Temelkoski where the information about this artifact can be found:

“Antique Macedonian Shields from Pelagonija” is the title of the publication by archaeologist Dusko Temelkoski, which was promoted in Prilep library “Borka Taleski” on Wednesday.
The publication presents parts of shields found last year at site Bonce, dating 22 centuries ago, from the period after Alexander, in the time of the antique Macedonian king Demetrij.

“The findings on the shields are presented not only in a professional, but also in a more popular way, so that the story about the antique shields is accessible to the wider readers’ public, including information on site Bonce and King Demetrij”, said Temelkoski. French historian Pierre Giuel worked with Temelkoski on the book. They have already presented the findings in France, Croatia, Germany.

Polish archaeologist and professor at the Gdansk University Nick Sekunda is the book reviewer, emphasizing the exceptional importance of the findings. Parts of the shields date from the antique period, pointing to the famous Macedonian army called phalanx. The shield parts are currently conserved in the Ohrid Bureau and Museum, and one of them could be reconstructed and presented to the public next autumn at the earliest.

Here is the news article on the Macedonian National TV station about the promotion of this book:

Pay attention on 00:45

YouTube - NewsFlash-Ancient Macedonian SHIELDS and the land of MAKEDON





I hope this information helped you a bit, if I get this publication in my hands I will be able to give more information about this symbol.

And I didn't used this symbol to justify the policy of Dostoinstvo, my objection was reserved only for the ignorancy of Indigen.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM,

do you really think I would try to hoax unauthentic evidence?

Bratot, there is no need for such paranoia, and I never made such a suggestion. Anyway, thanks for the information, going by what you provided, the shields were used by the people of the greater Pelagonia region during the reign of Macedonian king Demetrius.

And I didn't used this symbol to justify the policy of Dostoinstvo, my objection was reserved only for the ignorancy of Indigen.

Not everybody can be aware of every specific detail in our history, not him, not yourself, not me. I hope you guys can put your mutual animosity aside one day for the greater good of the Macedonian Cause, but it seems that neither of you wishes to let up, so you only end up looking as bad as each other.

Do you see anything wrong with what Dostoinstvo have done, given the time they have done it?

[Bratot]

I'm just irritated from proving a case under accusations that are constantly looking for a conspiracy in everything.

Of course I don't approve what Dostoinstvo have done with removing the kutlesh symbol, but if the given indicators for the law forbidding the use of this symbol are correct than this is much more serious scandal which involves the Government and the whole Parlament.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Fair call, but I would still like to see the actual terminology in this supposed 'law' that forbids the use of the old symbol, as clearly, people in Macedonia are still using it (like the university in Shtip, for example).

[Bratot]

I may have missed the coins. Where did you post them? As for the shield, you have not provided any further information, no evidence that it even was Macedonian.

In the very first post of this thread.


YouTube - В�*ТЕШКА, МАКЕДОНИЈА, vrteska, kolovrt

1:48 Охрид, камена пластка
1:54 Антички Македонски Монети
1:58 Антички Македонски Монети
2:04 Антички Македонски Монети
2:09 Пафта од Малешевија
2:15 Антички Македонски предмет, Кутлеш
2:21 Антички Македонски предмет, Дервени
2:25 Дрворез, Ново село, Штип
2:32 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:37 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:42 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:49 Честа апликација на надгробни споменици
2:54 Детал од Пафта, Скопско

[Bratot]

179BC Macedon King PERSEUS Certified

http://www.ioffer.com/i/179bc-macedon-king-perseus-certified-ancient-greek-coin-194888864

Macedonia, time of Philip V and Perseus, c. 185 - 168 B.C.

21273. Silver triobol, Weber 2262, SGCV I 1438, VF, Macedonian mint, 1.398g, 14.3mm, c. 185 - 168 B.C.; obverse Macedonian shield, star with crescent rays at center; reverse BOTTEATΩN,

http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=227069

AR tetrobol of the last king of Macedon: king Perseus: 179-167 B.C. Macedonian shield / Stern of galley right, star above МАКЕ-ΔОНΩN.




....

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

No evidence has been provided that the shield belonged to Macedonian soldiers. Further, I'm not willing to accept the classification of those auction sites as definitive. Do you have any actual evidence that comes from a credible source and provides evidence based clarification that they are Macedonian.

Do you have any links/further information on the second last image you provided above?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Bratot,

No evidence has been provided that the shield belonged to Macedonian soldiers.

What sort of evidence are you looking for that would specifically prove that those shields belonged to Macedonian soldiers, aside from the fact that they were unearthed in Macedonia and dated to the reign of the ancient Macedonians? Who else would they have belonged to, if not Macedonians, particularly in the inland regions of Pelagonia, where foreigners would have been much less than on the coast? Is there an example you can refer to with the 16-ray sun which can be used as a benchmark?

[Volk]

Bratot I commend your patience, anyone that follows Macedonian archeology would be familiar with the symbols on the shields as the discovery of the Royal Shields was a very big deal (only royal Macedonian shields to be found anywhere!)

The coins are also representations of those (and other shields)