The secrets of Macedonian civilization!

[Bratot]

I would like to recomend watching this Russian documentary first and than a deep diving into this thread:

Тайна славянской цивилизации Год выхода: 2003 Жанр: Документальный Студия: Киностудия "Отечество" Режиссер: Алексей Муратов

YouTube - Π*труски. Π’Π°ΠΉΠ½Π° славянской Ρ†ΠΈΠ²ΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠ·Π°Ρ†ΠΈΠΈ (1)
YouTube - Π*труски. Π’Π°ΠΉΠ½Π° славянской Ρ†ΠΈΠ²ΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠ·Π°Ρ†ΠΈΠΈ (2)
YouTube - Π*труски. Π’Π°ΠΉΠ½Π° славянской Ρ†ΠΈΠ²ΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠ·Π°Ρ†ΠΈΠΈ (3)
YouTube - Π*труски. Π’Π°ΠΉΠ½Π° славянской Ρ†ΠΈΠ²ΠΈΠ»ΠΈΠ·Π°Ρ†ΠΈΠΈ (4)

It's in Russian but I hope you wont have bigger problems understanding it.

In the book of Roman Bagdasarov "СВАСТИКА: СВЯЩЕННЫЙ СИМВОЛ" ( http://bagdasarovr.narod.ru/swastika.htm ) is mentioned:

"Свастический узор распространён среди македонцев [605], белорусов [442, р.75-90] и остальных славянских народов*."

"The swasticale pattern is common among Macedonians [605], Belarusians [442, r.75-90] and other Slavic peoples *.


Kolovrt , Kolovorot, Cosmic Wheel or Mandala?

What is Kolovrt and whether the ancient symbol of eternity can be called Kolovrt / Kolovorot?

I think the material that follows is giving very possible variant. It means that's one of many possible variants.
First you have to have at least some knowledge of astronomy, and all the answers lie on the sky, because the ancient people were seeing in other way of the same things.

So let's start. Kolo or Trkalo / wheel is the one same thing. Is there a wheel of the sky?
Of course and it spins continuously before even the man knew about himself.
Currently we know that we are spinning, but in the past the country was flat and the sky spinnng (picture below)



The whole sky vault, constantly spinning and spinning around the star Polaris, our most famous star.

http://www.astronomija.com.mk/vest.asp?id=1087

But where in this wheel is our symbol?
Knowing that the star Polaris is part of the Little Bear constellation, known by the people as the "little car" (Mala Kola & Kochija) and knowing that rotates around Polaris, the result is the lower image:





See how many circles are around the central symbol of the ancient cup.
Always the symbol is in a circle depicting the wheel / Kolo that spins forever.
Macedonian graves are filled with these wheels/stars, with the desire to go into eternity, the infinity.



In the picture in the above post the symbol is located on the Macedonian cup from the 3rd century BC, found on the Vardar Rid near Gevgelija, and beside it is found on the grave of Goce Delchev, and also standing in front of the grave with the same symbol.

Do you still wonder about the Star of Kutlesh?

From the Museum of Macedonia believes that this symbol in antiquity was elevated at the state level, and was even carried on the shields.



The symbol is present in continuity from antiquity to the present, he is present in the ancient Macedonian coins, the decorations of the tombs, the cups in churches, on tombstones and in folk costumes.




Even in the Stone Bridge in Skopje:



Skopje's Kale fortress:



So what do you think of it?

19 century Lokov village near Struga:









Morodvis is a village in Zrnovci municipality, located in the base of mountain Plačkovica, 7 kilometres (4.3 mi) south of Kočani, Republic of Macedonia



Recomended read:

1. http://www.makedonskosonce.com/1_1/t...akedonizam.pdf

2. http://www.makedonskosonce.com/1_1/t...akedonizam.pdf

3. http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/296.html


Applications from Macedonia, with this Wheel of Eternity aka Kolovrt:

YouTube - Π’Π*Π’Π•Π¨ΠšΠ, ΠœΠΠšΠ•Π”ΠžΠΠ˜ΠˆΠ, vrteska, kolovrt

1:48 Охрид, камена пластка
1:54 Антички Македонски Монети
1:58 Антички Македонски Монети
2:04 Антички Македонски Монети
2:09 Пафта од Малешевија
2:15 Антички Македонски предмет, Кутлеш
2:21 Антички Македонски предмет, Дервени
2:25 Дрворез, Ново село, Штип
2:32 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:37 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:42 Св.Спас, Скопје
2:49 Честа апликација на надгробни споменици
2:54 Детал од Пафта, Скопско


When you will be ready I will give the second part "the connection"

[Rogi]

Impressive post, don't hold back, give us the next bit

[Bratot]

I want to get a feedback first with few opinions, maybe someone will connect 1+1 logically.

[makedonin]

maybe someone will connect 1+1 logically.

Logically it is 1+1=1

Explaination: The (+) can also be the Boolean operator OR. See more on Boolean logic here. See you have to specify which logic Greek will come with the Greek type of logic naturally

By the way, interesting post. Symbols are powerful and say alot. The trouble with them is to prove that the same symbol meant the same for people of different Era, and that they used it in the same context. If it is to show that the meaning as well as the context of usage were same or similar, it is a Bingo.

Similar to the above symbol (+).

[Bratot]

I agree, that's why I would like someone to challenge the intepretation on this thread.

[makedonin]

I agree, that's why I would like someone to challenge the intepretation on this thread.

I guess Macedonians can't serve you good, cause we are partial and have interest or motive.

Some outsider would be good for that type of job.

Said that, I admit ain't qualified.

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Rogi]

I'm understanding much more of the Russian documentary than I expected to (that might be because of the 'Learn Russian by Podcast' I've been listening to lately), but it is a real struggle. If you have an English or Macedonian transcription of the video, or a version with subtitles, that would really be appreciated and helpful.

[Bratot]

I'm understanding much more of the Russian documentary than I expected to (that might be because of the 'Learn Russian by Podcast' I've been listening to lately), but it is a real struggle. If you have an English or Macedonian transcription of the video, or a version with subtitles, that would really be appreciated and helpful.

This wasn't really commercialized documentary and there is no transcription of the video. Unfortunatelly.

I was looking for some torrents as well but I got only Russian version.

http://kinozal.md/torrent/154976/

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Nice post Bratot.

Sounds like a thread for dedanoe.

[TRAVOLTA]

Tnx for the post Bratot.

[julie]

Love your work Bratot. Incidentally the wheel of eternity, is akin to infinity, no beginning, no end. Many variations, and can see where the 8 rays of the current Macedonian flag originate from. the swastika symbol, also seems to stem from this wheel of eternity.

[Bratot]

Nice post Bratot.

Sounds like a thread for dedanoe.

EM,

when they asked Confucius: "What would you do first when you come to power?"
He said: "The first thing I want to do is to restore the original meaning of the letters (symbols)."

[Bratot]

Love your work Bratot. Incidentally the wheel of eternity, is akin to infinity, no beginning, no end. Many variations, and can see where the 8 rays of the current Macedonian flag originate from. the swastika symbol, also seems to stem from this wheel of eternity.

All these symbols are called swastika Julie.



*Svastika - sanskrit: स्वस्तिक - dobrobit

(Sanskrit, svastika). An ancient sign said to be of solar origin and signifying good luck.
The sign may be Neolithic and is found world-wide. Its Indian name comes from Sanskrit ‘sv-asti’ meaning good fortune, luck, or success. The swastika is a cross with the extremities of each arm bent at right angles. It is used as an auspicious mark on images or structures, and is often found on the chest, palms, or soles of the feet of Buddhas and Jinas. It is also used in the earliest Buddhist art which does not represent the Buddha in human form.

The use of the swastika as a Nazi symbol may have derived from German scholarship in the field of Hindu folklore and religion, distorted by such pseudo-mystical occultists as Guido von List, who originated theories of Germanic and Nordic folklore as early as the 1870s. According to List, the swastika was the symbol of a secret band of initiates called the Armanen or "children of the sun," who flourished in ancient times.

More on: http://www.answers.com/topic/swastika

Earliest manifestations of the swastika are dated from 10 to 15,000 BC, and is found among many peoples: Celts, Germans, Slavs, Etruscans, Scythians, etc.. And in one of its version also used by the ancient Macedonians.

Goddess Athena, on her shield, and often the clothing has the symbol of the swastika.
In the Slavic tradition the god Perun has swastika



even the Apache Indians


the Basques in Europe



few variants are found on marble in Kale fortress in Skopje




The church in v. Vodocha ( Vadi-Oci where the battle of Samoil's army occured near Belasica)



Therefore we cannot underestimate this symbol in our tradition.

The Constelation of the stars 4000 years ago was


Orbital of the present day Polarstars.(Polaris)
-• = Connectionlines of constellations that belong together.

[Daskalot]

Very interesting topic Bratot.

I must read it thru once more before you get my comments

[freifrau]

The use of the swastika as a Nazi symbol may have derived from German scholarship in the field of Hindu folklore and religion, distorted by such pseudo-mystical occultists as Guido von List, who originated theories of Germanic and Nordic folklore as early as the 1870s.

Since it was found in German archaeological sites (both of Hallstatt culture and of the period of Germanic migrations) in ancient Greece and in ancient India ,it was considered as an ancient symbol of Aryans (Indo-Germanen or Indo-Europeans ).
So it was connected to the theories about the Nordic race usw.