Question to the Greeks

[Philosopher]

Isn't it obvious?

Ooops, no it isn't, forgot to put an address. You got me

EDIT: Fixed.

Yes, I see clearly now. So you are a Greek American?

How is this dish prepared in Athens? Do you use fermented cabbage? Or does it vary in Athens? How does your family prepare it?

[spitfire]

Yes, I see clearly now. So you are a Greek American?

How is this dish prepared in Athens? Do you use fermented cabbage? Or does it vary in Athens? How does your family prepare it?

No, Greek (although Iwouldn't object to the idea of being american).

Lahanodolmathes (I'm trying to transliterate here, th as in "the" and the "h" accentuated) is made with fresh cabbage leaves.

When you use vine leaves then it's called "dolmathakia", a turkish word but with a greek ending which means that they are small. When no meat is present in the stuffing, then it is normally called dolmathakia yalatzi, which means "fake" dolmathes.

Finally, when preparing Lahanodolmathes without leaves (just the stuffing) it is called "Youvarlakia", I don't know if this word is turkish or not, it may be. The food is like a soup with meatballs. The stuffing is slightly different with less rice.

[Philosopher]

No, Greek (although Iwouldn't object to the idea of being american).

Lahanodolmathes (I'm trying to transliterate here, th as in "the" and the "h" accentuated) is made with fresh cabbage leaves.

When you use vine leaves then it's called "dolmathakia", a turkish word but with a greek ending which means that they are small. When no meat is present in the stuffing, then it is normally called dolmathakia yalatzi, which means "fake" dolmathes.

Finally, when preparing Lahanodolmathes without leaves (just the stuffing) it is called "Youvarlakia", I don't know if this word is turkish or not, it may be. The food is like a soup with meatballs. The stuffing is slightly different with less rice.

Your interest in the US Constitution, American laws, and the writings of Americans led me to assume you live in America.

I find it rather interesting that in Athens fresh cabbage is used. This is how it is prepared in central and eastern Europe, but generally not in the Balkans.

I wonder how it is prepared in Turkey.

[spitfire]

Your interest in the US Constitution, American laws, and the writings of Americans led me to assume you live in America.

I find it rather interesting that in Athens fresh cabbage is used. This is how it is prepared in central and eastern Europe, but generally not in the Balkans.

I wonder how it is prepared in Turkey.

I've also read the Quran but I'm not muslim.

The use of fermented cabbage leaves is very rare, if not unusual in Greece for this particular dish. I have only seen fermented cabbage in salads. But it looks like a good idea. I think I'm going to try it.

[Bill77]

The Germans are well known for fermenting cabbage. They are known for their "Sauerkraut"

Sauerkraut, directly translated: "sour cabbage", is finely cut cabbage that has been fermented by various lactic acid bacteria, including Leuconostoc, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus. Wikipedia


I'm curious about this common process (fermenting cabbage) we have with the Germans. Is there a story (explanation) to how the Balkans and Germans share this similarity and yet no other nations seem to have.

[Phoenix]

The Germans are well known for fermenting cabbage. They are known for their "Sauerkraut"

Sauerkraut, directly translated: "sour cabbage", is finely cut cabbage that has been fermented by various lactic acid bacteria, including Leuconostoc, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus. Wikipedia


I'm curious about this common process (fermenting cabbage) we have with the Germans. Is there a story (explanation) to how the Balkans and Germans share this similarity and yet no other nations seem to have.

The use of a pickled cabbage in sarma is a very clever combination as the sourness of the cabbage cuts through the fatty pork mince used in the dish.

The Germans love their (Blaukraut) red cabbage (which is delicious) with pork and other gamey meats (ie duck) and serves a similar purpose in that it cuts through the rich flavors of those meats...

[Philosopher]

The Germans are well known for fermenting cabbage. They are known for their "Sauerkraut"

Sauerkraut, directly translated: "sour cabbage", is finely cut cabbage that has been fermented by various lactic acid bacteria, including Leuconostoc, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus. Wikipedia


I'm curious about this common process (fermenting cabbage) we have with the Germans. Is there a story (explanation) to how the Balkans and Germans share this similarity and yet no other nations seem to have.

The Germans do not use fermented cabbage to make a dish similar to sarma. Many cultures around the world ferment vegetables, including cabbage, but this is very different than making sarma with fermented cabbage.

[Philosopher]

How is Moussaka prepared in your traditions?

In our family tradition, we use potatoes and we also use eggplant based Moussaka. I think in the Balkans, it is generally made with potatoes. But in Greece generally with eggplant.

Moussaka is not a Greek dish, though, and I am tired of people saying it is.

[Philosopher]

There are some foods which are often identified as Greek in the West, but are not Greek.

Baklava is one such food. Moussaka is another.

Does anyone know whether Feta cheese is Greek? That seems to be the consensus.

Anyone know of alternative theories? Is Feta truly Greek? Or is its origins in the Middle East, similar to Baklava and Moussaka?

[spitfire]

Mousaka is made with potatoes and eggplant in Greece.

Baklava I think was a case where Turkey "won" it but I'm not sure. The turks use peanut and the greeks use nut when they make it. Actually this difference in the use of peanuts and nuts is common between the turks and the greeks when preparing sweet griddle.

Feta cheese and all its variants is Greek. The origin of the name has received protection. It's like the champagne for the French. The very word "Feta" means "slice" in greek. This is how it should be served. In slices.

One humoristic story about the Greek coffee. It is also called Turkish coffee in Greece. So when officials from Turkey and Greece met and they ordered coffee, the greeks ordered greek coffee and the turks turkish coffee. They ended up drinking the same coffee, which by the way is arabic in origin.

[George S.]

spit fire there are somany variants that leaves one chuckling .we have similar situations .For example sarma is the dish with cabbage leaves with mince meat.The greeks use vine leaves.I tried it i don't like it i prefer cabbage leaves .Leaves that have been pickled.We have our tafche gradche which is beans in a pan.We actually make it like a stew with different meats,.dried ribs,pork meats ,or even macedonian sausages diced up.EWe heave
so many other foods.

[Philosopher]

spit fire there are somany variants that leaves one chuckling .we have similar situations .For example sarma is the dish with cabbage leaves with mince meat.The greeks use vine leaves.I tried it i don't like it i prefer cabbage leaves .Leaves that have been pickled.We have our tafche gradche which is beans in a pan.We actually make it like a stew with different meats,.dried ribs,pork meats ,or even macedonian sausages diced up.EWe heave
so many other foods.

No, George. Stuffed grape leaves is a different dish than wrapped cabbage. They are both widely prepared in Macedonia, and both eaten.

The only difference I see is that we use fermented cabbage and the Greeks don't.

[Philosopher]

Mousaka is made with potatoes and eggplant in Greece.

Which is more common, potatoes or eggplant? Or do you use both in the same dish?

Baklava I think was a case where Turkey "won" it but I'm not sure. The turks use peanut and the greeks use nut when they make it. Actually this difference in the use of peanuts and nuts is common between the turks and the greeks when preparing sweet griddle.

Feta cheese and all its variants is Greek. The origin of the name has received protection. It's like the champagne for the French. The very word "Feta" means "slice" in greek. This is how it should be served. In slices.

One humoristic story about the Greek coffee. It is also called Turkish coffee in Greece. So when officials from Turkey and Greece met and they ordered coffee, the greeks ordered greek coffee and the turks turkish coffee. They ended up drinking the same coffee, which by the way is arabic in origin.

Etymologically speaking, Baklava and Moussaka are both of non-Greek origin. I have never heard of Turkish Baklava with peanuts, always nuts, though I confess I have never eaten "Turkish Baklava".

All Baklava I have read about, including south west Asian, include nuts, like Walnuts, Almonds, Hazelnuts, Pistachios, et al.

Where did you read that Turkish Baklava has peanuts?

[spitfire]

Which is more common, potatoes or eggplant? Or do you use both in the same dish?

We use both.

Etymologically speaking, Baklava and Moussaka are both of non-Greek origin. I have never heard of Turkish Baklava with peanuts, always nuts, though I confess I have never eaten "Turkish Baklava".

All Baklava I have read about, including south west Asian, include nuts, like Walnuts, Almonds, Hazelnuts, Pistachios, et al.

Where did you read that Turkish Baklava has peanuts?

Of course mate. All these sweets, well almost all, sound turkish to me too.
If you go let's say to Constantinople (or "Is tin poli" that means "To the city" in Greek, and from there it became Istanbul in turkish) you will see that the turks use mostly peanuts instead of nuts.
This doesn't mean that these sweets are greek. I only mentioned it as a distinct difference in the preparation.

[spitfire]

Also, in the case you read it in wikipedia, there is no mention of potatoes in the Moussaka greek dish. It also states that it is eaten hot.
Both incorrect. There's potatoes and everybody knows that it is better eaten when not hot.
Also, it is not "usually" with minced meat, but always with minced meat and the white cream on top.
This is why my girlfriend doesn't prepare it so often. It takes time.