young aegean macedonians in melbourne

[lerin]

What has happened to the young aegean macedonians in melbourne. I am 40 ish and my background from Lerin. It is sad because most of my relos either refer to themselves as aussies or as greek macedonians or wait for it a new one i heard from a young relo of mine recently macedonian greek. It seems to me like these macedonians are unable to relate to the republic in any way and all the skis as one young friend of mine put it. These macedonians spend their time with greeks and pretending they too are greek simply saying that they are greek macedonian but don't speak greek. It is sad because their is thousands of them. Just have a look at shepparton where most of them are from lerin and my relos they all refer to themselves as Greek. this is rally sad and i don't understand it. My guess is that because thee area their parents come from is under greek rule they find it easier to refer to themselves as greek. I would have thought young people would be smarter than that but obviously i was wrong. They go on Facebook saying things like my baba my redo and then calling themselves greek!!!. fuc--- dumb cu--s.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

What has happened to the young aegean macedonians in melbourne. I am 40 ish and my background from Lerin. It is sad because most of my relos either refer to themselves as aussies or as greek macedonians or wait for it a new one i heard from a young relo of mine recently macedonian greek. It seems to me like these macedonians are unable to relate to the republic in any way and all the skis as one young friend of mine put it. These macedonians spend their time with greeks and pretending they too are greek simply saying that they are greek macedonian but don't speak greek. It is sad because their is thousands of them. Just have a look at shepparton where most of them are from lerin and my relos they all refer to themselves as Greek. this is rally sad and i don't understand it. My guess is that because thee area their parents come from is under greek rule they find it easier to refer to themselves as greek. I would have thought young people would be smarter than that but obviously i was wrong. They go on Facebook saying things like my baba my redo and then calling themselves greek!!!. fuc--- dumb cu--s.

I disagree. Melbourne has a large population of Macedonians from Egej and a significant proportion identify as Macedonian. I'm one of those 'young Aegean Macedonians' you speak of and even though there are a fair few grkomani around, the majority are still true to themselves. It obviously depends from family to family, but you need to be careful with your generalisations.

[boyphenom666]

I think there are a couple of issues here, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. It seems to me that the two primary groups of people who speak Macedonian are people of a Slavic background or a Vlach background. It seems that most of those from a Slavic background identify with the Macedonian side, however it gets a little less predictable if the person comes from a Aroumanian/Vlach background. Most of the grkomani I've run across have been from an Aroumanian background. Any thoughts?

[Phoenix]

...Any thoughts?

My first thought is that you're a fuckin dickhead...
I don't see any relevance of your post in relation to the thread, other than some piss weak attempt to discredit the Macedonian ethnos.

[boyphenom666]

My first thought is that you're a fuckin dickhead...
I don't see any relevance of your post in relation to the thread, other than some piss weak attempt to discredit the Macedonian ethnos.

Nice reply. Are you a member of the new Macedonian branch of Golden Dawn?

Try reading and learning something other than propaganda for once.

This is a well-known phenomenon for anybody who REALLY knows the history of Macedonia, particularly the fact that urban Vlachs took the side of the Greeks, and many of the rural Vlachs assimilated with the Macedonians and were on the pro-Bulgarian side.

Most grkomani are Vlachs. That doesn't mean all Vlachs are grkomani, however. This is well documented in academic materials as well as in my personal experience.

========

Just found this on the fly. I'm sure there are better sources out there, but this willl give you the idea.

http://www.oswego.edu/~baloglou/misc/manakia.html

"Na taljia ka njelji ka earamu ku Elada ka di daima"

("They were slaughtering us like sheep because we always sided with Greece")

This is how the Macedonian Vlachs (Rumanian-speaking, but largely of Greek persuasion) described their experiences during the "Bulgaromacedonian" revolt of July 1903 (Iliden)--quoted from "The Manakia brothers, cinema pioneers in the Balkans and the Vlach question" (in Greek), by Yioryis Exarchos, 1991; this quotation and article is submitted here to dispel the notion that the Manakia brothers, Vlachs from the mountainous village of Avdella (in southernmost (Greek) Macedonia) were pure-bred "Macedonians".

[Niko777]

@ Lerin and Egejska:

I am an Aegean in Canada from the younger generation. In Canada, I could tell you that most of the younger Aegeans (1st and 2nd generation Canadians) have been assimilated or well established in Canadian culture and identify as Canadians or Canadian Macedonians. This is because immigration from Aegean Macedonia has stopped in the 1970s and Aegean Macedonia is still under Greek occupation. The same thing would have happened to Vardar Macedonians if immigration had stopped, but immigrants from the Republic of Macedonia continue to come and I would say recent immigrants (post 1985) now dominate the younger Macedonian community in Canada and Aegeans no longer play a large role as they did before 1980s.

[boyphenom666]

@ Lerin and Egejska:

I am an Aegean in Canada from the younger generation. In Canada, I could tell you that most of the younger Aegeans (1st and 2nd generation Canadians) have been assimilated or well established in Canadian culture and identify as Canadians or Canadian Macedonians. This is because immigration from Aegean Macedonia has stopped in the 1970s and Aegean Macedonia is still under Greek occupation. The same thing would have happened to Vardar Macedonians if immigration had stopped, but immigrants from the Republic of Macedonia continue to come and I would say recent immigrants (post 1985) now dominate the younger Macedonian community in Canada and Aegeans no longer play a large role as they did before 1980s.

My cousin is married to one and I see a lot of mixed leanings. They call themselves Macedonian, but I would call them about 60/40 Macedonian/Greek. The percentage might be wrong, but you get the idea. There are a lot of Greek leanings as would be expected after 100 years of occupation.

[Struja]

Nice reply. Are you a member of the new Macedonian branch of Golden Dawn?

Try reading and learning something other than propaganda for once.

This is a well-known phenomenon for anybody who REALLY knows the history of Macedonia, particularly the fact that urban Vlachs took the side of the Greeks, and many of the rural Vlachs assimilated with the Macedonians and were on the pro-Bulgarian side.

Most grkomani are Vlachs. That doesn't mean all Vlachs are grkomani, however. This is well documented in academic materials as well as in my personal experience.

========

http://www.oswego.edu/~baloglou/misc/manakia.html

"Na taljia ka njelji ka earamu ku Elada ka di daima"

("They were slaughtering us like sheep because we always sided with Greece")

This is how the Macedonian Vlachs (Rumanian-speaking, but largely of Greek persuasion) described their experiences during the "Bulgaromacedonian" revolt of July 1903 (Iliden)--quoted from "The Manakia brothers, cinema pioneers in the Balkans and the Vlach question" (in Greek), by Yioryis Exarchos, 1991; this quotation and article is submitted here to dispel the notion that the Manakia brothers, Vlachs from the mountainous village of Avdella (in southernmost (Greek) Macedonia) were pure-bred "Macedonians".

you should start a new topic if you wanna go this direction! Mod's please move this crap out of this section..

[boyphenom666]

you should start a new topic if you wanna go this direction! Mod's please move this crap out of this section..

This is completely relevant to posts one and two. What I have found is that everybody our people considers to be a Macedonian, isn't necessarily so. It is far more complicated than that.

Go into Southern Italy (Naples and Sicily) and ask them as if they are the same people as in Venice, Rome and Florence. Every country is a collection of tribes and Macedonia was no different. Different tribes have different loyalties. Without understanding that calling someone a "Macedonian" has as many meanings as we now know the word "Greek" means, we are doomed to make the same mistakes the Greeks are.

It has well been covered in the population statistics that where you see the word "Greek" it meant either Christian or a member of the Greek Patriarchate. Likewise, the term "Bulgarian" meant you were a member of the Exarchate. Knowing a little more about our history than the average egg, it got me thinking recently whether "Macedonian" simply meant members of the Archbishopric of Ohrid (pre 1767, of course). I have read nothing on this subject one way or another, but it would be consistent with everything else.

[boyphenom666]

@ Lerin and Egejska:

I am an Aegean in Canada from the younger generation. In Canada, I could tell you that most of the younger Aegeans (1st and 2nd generation Canadians) have been assimilated or well established in Canadian culture and identify as Canadians or Canadian Macedonians. This is because immigration from Aegean Macedonia has stopped in the 1970s and Aegean Macedonia is still under Greek occupation. The same thing would have happened to Vardar Macedonians if immigration had stopped, but immigrants from the Republic of Macedonia continue to come and I would say recent immigrants (post 1985) now dominate the younger Macedonian community in Canada and Aegeans no longer play a large role as they did before 1980s.

One more thing, there was a girl at a Greek wedding who recently came here to study and is from Egej. She goes to the Greek church but speaks our lingo. She didn't appear to have any sense of being a Macedonian and was telling my brother that it was not considered fashionable to speak our language among the young. This is very consistent with what I remember in the 1970's with our people's love affair with Yugoslavia and Serbia.

[DraganOfStip]

Slavic background

Excuse me?Being a SLAVIC-SPEAKER and having a SLAVIC BACKGROUND are two separate things,mate.Just look at the Bulgarians - they're a turko-mongoloid people that accepted Slavic language and culture by mixing with Slavic tribes in Thrace and Moesia,but originally they come from northwest China (the Hunnic empire to be more precise).And stop polluting this thread with quotes from Greek propagandist authors - "Bulgaromacedonian" MY ASS!
I'd suggest you review your post and correct it,or get off this forum!

[boyphenom666]

Excuse me?Being a SLAVIC-SPEAKER and having a SLAVIC BACKGROUND are two separate things,mate.Just look at the Bulgarians - they're a turko-mongoloid people that accepted Slavic language and culture by mixing with Slavic tribes in Thrace and Moesia,but originally they come from northwest China (the Hunnic empire to be more precise).And stop polluting this thread with quotes from Greek propagandist authors - "Bulgaromacedonian" MY ASS!
I'd suggest you review your post and correct it,or get off this forum!

Ummm. I think that's what I've been saying?

Again, I'm not writing an academic book but that passage made my point. If you read Anastasia Karakasidou's book about Macedonia she hints at the very same thing. Before I ever knew what a Vlach was, my understanding was that there were vast numbers of nashi who were brainwashed into siding with the Greeks as grkomani. My point is that this is simply not true. Most of those grkomani were urban Vlachs, shopkeepers and professionals. The rural Vlachs tended to side with our side.

Just look at the grkoman mayor of Solun!

Now if you're offended that I make that distinction, then what can I say. It is a valid distinction. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence (life experience), but I choose not to post it here.

[DraganOfStip]

Ummm. I think that's what I've been saying?

Again, I'm not writing an academic book but that passage made my point. If you read Anastasia Karakasidou's book about Macedonia she hints at the very same thing. Before I ever knew what a Vlach was, my understanding was that there were vast numbers of nashi who were brainwashed into siding with the Greeks as grkomani. My point is that this is simply not true. Most of those grkomani were urban Vlachs, shopkeepers and professionals. The rural Vlachs tended to side with our side.

Just look at the grkoman mayor of Solun!

Now if you're offended that I make that distinction, then what can I say. It is a valid distinction. I have a lot of anecdotal evidence (life experience), but I choose not to post it here.

I was referring to YOUR words - "Slavic background".We're only a Slavic-speaking nation,we accepted our language from the Slavic tribes that settled here.Just like the people in Malta are English-speakers and not Englishmen,or Austrians being German-speakers rather than Germans.So us being Slavic-speakers doesn't make us Slavs.And again,the term "Bulgaromacedonian" is offensive to EVERY Macedonian,so why do you post it here,especially when it comes from a Greek author?If you're not offended by it then reevaluate your national feelings.It's an insult to (Y)OUR nation.

[boyphenom666]

the term "Bulgaromacedonian" is offensive to EVERY Macedonian,so why do you post it here,especially when it comes from a Greek author?If you're not offended by it then reevaluate your national feelings.It's an insult to (Y)OUR nation.

It was a cut and paste from an article. I'm not going to waste my time changing it. It made my point.

[DraganOfStip]

It was a cut and paste from an article. I'm not going to waste my time changing it. It made my point.

You're not gonna waste your time changing it?But then again,you had the time to reply to my post.That's strange...You must be a proud "Bulgaromacedonain" then.