young aegean macedonians in melbourne

[boyphenom666]

You're not gonna waste your time changing it?But then again,you had the time to reply to my post.That's strange...You must be a proud "Bulgaromacedonain" then.

You dickheads just love to argue, don't you? I am Macedonian, but I know the history. I'm not afraid of words and factual knowledge.

[Coolski]

In the villages near Bitola, the region which i'm more familiar with, villages are stereotyped as having different allegiances. In the Bitola region most of the villages are coined either "Grčki" or "Bugarski". I'm talking about ethnic Macedonian villages with different 100+ year old political leaning here. These weak traits seem to have remained from over 100 years ago when I guess there were competing external influences in the whole Macedonia region.

I guess the number of "greek leaning" villages numbered higher in aegean Macedonia and towards the southern areas of the Macedonian republic. My guess is also that the number of "bulgarian leaning" villages is more concentrated near the Bulgarian border, and similarly for "serbian leaning" villages in the north.

As for the Vlach villages, they always seem to be "greek leaning" when it comes to these same stereotypes in Macedonia. It doesn't mean they're actively proclaiming Greekness. It does however make them more susceptible to being assimilated and manipulated if such a government was to ever rule them. We saw this with the number of greek leaning ethnic Macedonian and Vlach villages in Aegean Macedonia, and the results can be seen to this day.

These stereotypes do seem to be on the decline in the Republic of Macedonia, but given that WWII was only 60 years ago, Ilinden was a century ago, and the Macedonian republic has only been independent for about 20 years, it will take time for the idea of sovereignty to really kick in, and for these ideas of foreign allegiance/admiration to decline.

As for the Macedonian communities in Australia from these different villages in the Republic, I can say that I have only noticed a tiny element of these allegiances seep through different parts of my family, which stems from a mix of "greek" and "bulgarian" leaning villages. I was only made aware of these stereotypes after a few visits to Maccedonia. I'm going to guess that the complications regarding the identity of the Aegean Macedonian and Aegean Vlach Macedonian diaspora in Australia stem from their status within Greece today, and the fact that these political leanings of 100 years ago are still being activated by Greece, creating a stronger element of their greek leaning history. Here in Australia I think it just makes them confused. I'm going to guess that most of the confused youth in the aegean Macedonian diaspora will eventually just opt for simply Australian identity, which is not only easier, but widely welcomed by mainstream Australia.

[boyphenom666]

In the villages near Bitola, the region which i'm more familiar with, villages are stereotyped as having different allegiances. In the Bitola region most of the villages are coined either "Grčki" or "Bugarski". I'm talking about ethnic Macedonian villages with different 100+ year old political leaning here. These weak traits seem to have remained from over 100 years ago when I guess there were competing external influences in the whole Macedonia region.

I guess the number of "greek leaning" villages numbered higher in aegean Macedonia and towards the southern areas of the Macedonian republic. My guess is also that the number of "bulgarian leaning" villages is more concentrated near the Bulgarian border, and similarly for "serbian leaning" villages in the north.

As for the Vlach villages, they always seem to be "greek leaning" when it comes to these same stereotypes in Macedonia. It doesn't mean they're actively proclaiming Greekness. It does however make them more susceptible to being assimilated and manipulated if such a government was to ever rule them. We saw this with the number of greek leaning ethnic Macedonian and Vlach villages in Aegean Macedonia, and the results can be seen to this day.

These stereotypes do seem to be on the decline in the Republic of Macedonia, but given that WWII was only 60 years ago, Ilinden was a century ago, and the Macedonian republic has only been independent for about 20 years, it will take time for the idea of sovereignty to really kick in, and for these ideas of foreign allegiance/admiration to decline.

As for the Macedonian communities in Australia from these different villages in the Republic, I can say that I have only noticed a tiny element of these allegiances seep through different parts of my family, which stems from a mix of "greek" and "bulgarian" leaning villages. I was only made aware of these stereotypes after a few visits to Maccedonia. I'm going to guess that the complications regarding the identity of the Aegean Macedonian and Aegean Vlach Macedonian diaspora in Australia stem from their status within Greece today, and the fact that these political leanings of 100 years ago are still being activated by Greece, creating a stronger element of their greek leaning history. Here in Australia I think it just makes them confused.

Excellent post!

I think your observations ring true from what I know. My roots are in Prespa, by the way. I always grew up only knowing I was a Macedonian, but I look at some of the ancestral names and I sure see some names that could be Greek or Italianesque. I've read that the rural Vlachs were mostly Bulgarian (Macedonian) leaning and other sources say many of the people who call themselves Macedonian are assimilated Vlachs who have no knowledge of their ancestry.

I don't know why people are afraid of this. It makes logical sense and it reinforces our narrative. Macedonia was Latinized linguistically by the 5th Century AD. It is quite plausible that they are decendants of the people who were always there. After the slavic invasions, and with the decline of Roman rule, the predominant languages were slavic except in the cities and the coastal areas, where Greek predominated. (Just a quick description that I'm sure requires more specificity.)

I've also noticed there are a lot of people from our area Bitola/Prespa that have an "Italian" look.

I don't fear knowledge.

[boyphenom666]

As for the Vlach villages, they always seem to be "greek leaning" when it comes to these same stereotypes in Macedonia. It doesn't mean they're actively proclaiming Greekness. It does however make them more susceptible to being assimilated and manipulated if such a government was to ever rule them. We saw this with the number of greek leaning ethnic Macedonian and Vlach villages in Aegean Macedonia, and the results can be seen to this day.

One other thing I've learned from reading these materials over the last 25 years or so, is when the Greeks are referring to their Greek Populations in Albania and Macedonia, they are largely referring to the Aroumanians/Vlachs there. That's why they were claiming up to 250,000 dormant Greeks living in Macedonia (or some such number). They are counting all the Vlachs plus all the Macedonians they assume to be assimilated or from villages with that pedigree.

[lavce pelagonski]

boyphenom666 are you normal, what do you mean Slav side we are not slavs.
are you a bulgar?

[Bill77]

boyphenom666 are you normal
are you a bulgar?

Is he Razer is what i want to know.

[Coolski]

I'm not talking about the origins of the ethnic Macedonians. I'm talking about the political allegiances which the ethnic groups unique to the Macedonia region have. The two groups i'm referring to are the ethnic Macedonians and the ethnic Aromanians.

The other groups such as the ethnic Serbs, Greeks, Albanians and Bulgars had clear allegiances to those neighbouring countries.

Given that nations neighbouring Macedonia had a 200 year head start in forming their own modern nation states, this led neighbouring nations to consider the ethnic Macedonians as "up for grabs" in their own nation building projects. Prior to the balkan wars, they did so with religion and education. Such projects involved the infiltration of Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian churches in Macedonia as well as the spread of Greek-language and Bulgarian-language schools. They were all tools used by the neighbouring countries to boost their propaganda and persuade the ethnic Macedonians to "join their team" as an alternative to forming an independent Macedonian nation-state. This is why there are such drastic discrepancies when we look at different ethnographic maps in Macedonia. It is also the source of undertones of admiration for these different Balkan neighbours of ours in different villages.

Since the Balkan wars and the annexation of Macedonia these gentle propaganda tactics had been transformed into aggressive assimilation tactics, extreme resistance to Macedonia's independence, and hostile xenophobic regional policies against Macedonia.

Basically what i'm saying is, these allegiance traits have a purely political root from over a century ago. In the Republic of Macedonia they've mostly died out and in some cases been totally rejected, but they're still very strong in Greece and Bulgaria mainly because those governments are still pushing the agenda which they started over 100 years ago.

[makedonche]

You dickheads just love to argue, don't you? I am Macedonian, but I know the history. I'm not afraid of words and factual knowledge.

boy
Don't come to this forum expecting to freely express your opinions and then abuse members here by calling them "dickheads", you haven't earnt that right. Judging by your commentary on several threads you're not going to be here long enough to earn it either!

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Is he Razer is what i want to know.

Nah he wouldn't be, this bloke joined back in 09.

[lavce pelagonski]

I found that same article about that church that was closing down but didnt post it here, why would I wont to know about some bulgaromani.

Boy kazi koj si make you7r agenda clear or go to the pushkar council forum.

[Bill77]

Nah he wouldn't be, this bloke joined back in 09.

Cheers mate.

[VMRO]

What has happened to the young aegean macedonians in melbourne. I am 40 ish and my background from Lerin. It is sad because most of my relos either refer to themselves as aussies or as greek macedonians or wait for it a new one i heard from a young relo of mine recently macedonian greek. It seems to me like these macedonians are unable to relate to the republic in any way and all the skis as one young friend of mine put it. These macedonians spend their time with greeks and pretending they too are greek simply saying that they are greek macedonian but don't speak greek. It is sad because their is thousands of them. Just have a look at shepparton where most of them are from lerin and my relos they all refer to themselves as Greek. this is rally sad and i don't understand it. My guess is that because thee area their parents come from is under greek rule they find it easier to refer to themselves as greek. I would have thought young people would be smarter than that but obviously i was wrong. They go on Facebook saying things like my baba my redo and then calling themselves greek!!!. fuc--- dumb cu--s.

My family originate from Aegean Macedonia and i'm in my 20's and have always referred to myself as a Macedonian.

Many other younger Macedonians from Aegean Macedonian parents that refer to themselves the same way as i do, however i have met many Grkomani.

[VMRO]

One more thing, there was a girl at a Greek wedding who recently came here to study and is from Egej. She goes to the Greek church but speaks our lingo. She didn't appear to have any sense of being a Macedonian and was telling my brother that it was not considered fashionable to speak our language among the young. This is very consistent with what I remember in the 1970's with our people's love affair with Yugoslavia and Serbia.

In some instances that might be the case, i have many relatives who still live in Kostur, the younger generation even though some might not speak Macedonia but understand the language.

My nieces were only allowed to a Macedonian otherwise their father would not have approved.

[Stojacanec]

Boy,
Most of Europe was latinized once upon a time. So what is your point about having a Vlah background and being Macedonian?

[Egejska]

Dunno what's going down in Victoria. But here in Perth, all the young Aegean Macedonians, myself included know what we are and were we come from. We never have been fully assimilated into Aussie culture, some aspects yes. However we do have some cases were there are some young Aegeans that have forgotten about their roots.