Macedonian Children in Neret, Lerin, Brainwashed by Greek Government!

[Bill77]

This whole thing about comparing the number of votes the Vinozhito Party gets with peoples ethnic conciousness is the biggest crock of propagandist bullcrap I have ever seen. That's like saying that, because the Green party of Canada gets 1% of the vote, that only 1% of Canadians care about environmental issues.

Spot on brother. I have been over this with thessa before. He is one funny fella.

How many Macedonians did not vote for VMRO or SDSM or vote at all in the recent elections? about 40%? there for they don't exist and the Ethnic Albanians who (Majority would have voted) make up more than 25% of the population. What a great fantasy thessa has. Now you know how Greece got into such financial strife, Its the counting that gets them.

(Greek way of counting- one two skip a few ten)

[Bill77]

Our side never endured the horrors of what your family went through. Truly horrifying .

Relatives on my mom's side talk about beatings and threats by Greeks if they spoke Macedonian.

Acknowledgement is all that we wanted (well its a start anyway). Thank you for that. This post of yours has changed my perception of you some what.

[makedonche]

Acknowledgement is all that we wanted (well its a start anyway). Thank you for that. This post of yours has changed my perception of you some what.

Bill77 - Fatso
Spot on Bill, and thanks to Fatso who has the integrity and intestinal fortitude to stand up and acknowledge the truth - as the saying goes "The truth shall set you free" - welcome to freedom Fatso!

[makedonche]

Bukefal,

Some users seem totally clueless not only to Greece or Macedonia, but to Europe of our time, expecting a military dictatorship or an anarchist revolution to happen next week. Others are asking what European Union has done against Metaxas(!) or believe policemen are hiding under the bed of Macedonians to assure they talk dirty in Greek.

Ozimak was asking passionately for details on whether a Macedonian revolution, secession and reunification is a realistic option today. Others consider Macedonia an occupied territory and George S was asking if maybe we want to �give it back�. Others expect the Bucharest Treaty to suddenly change even though Republic of Macedonia is not part of the Treaty. Others believe archaeologists are hiding the good findings or Andronikos wrote the Greek inscriptions with his pen.

I hope what I said was not misunderstood. I only meant that if someone from Australia using his imagination and prejudice is trying to describe how things are next to my house, I will just reply and his allegations may be scrutinised.
Unlike many of you, I�m not irrelevant to the area or the topics of Balkan Wars or Civil War so I was suggesting that everybody should put some measure and balance to his bullshit.

Rosetta
It would appear you require evidence of oppression of the Macedonians, I have some evidence for you - you get onto an airplane and come to Australia and I will introduce you to a living member of the Greek population who was a paid government spy - paid to spy on the Macedonians and report them whenever he heard them speaking Macedonian in their own homes, and then were broken into, beaten up and their valuables taken away - and according to his knowledge there were hundreds like him spread amongst the Macedonian villages. If you are genuine you will take this offer up, if you are not genuinely interested in the truth or factual evidence then kindly leave this forum and stop trying to dilute the truth about Macedonia and Macedonians.

[lavce pelagonski]

Makedonche why would you be speaking with such a person who made other peoples lives hard? family or friend?

[Mastika]

Acknowledgement is all that we wanted (well its a start anyway).

This is very true. Only once recognition has occured can there be a fair and open discussion. At this stage Rosetta has not recognised the existence of Macedonian people living in Greece. I'm sure once she challenges the 'ethnically homogenous Greece' narrative taught in the Greek educational system, some form of constructive dialogue result from her presence.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Wishful thinking. This fool has no intention of acknowledging the truth, that is why he/she or whatever it is will be gone shortly.

[lavce pelagonski]

He is a PUSHKAR he switches between Greek and Macedonian.

[Bill77]

This is very true. Only once recognition has occured can there be a fair and open discussion. At this stage Rosetta has not recognised the existence of Macedonian people living in Greece. I'm sure once she challenges the 'ethnically homogenous Greece' narrative taught in the Greek educational system, some form of constructive dialogue result from her presence.

Spot on Mate. But i don't think rosetta is important. I'm looking at the bigger picture. If only the rest of Greece can heed to your message. Rosetta, you can't have a serious conversation with "IT". Just joke around and have some fun with it. He or She has problems and i sincerely have sympathy for the poor bugger.

[AMHRC]

You�re kidding, right? This political party is the only one that aspires to represent this ethnicity.


Throughout this post you identify ethnicity with language or language of the ancestors. Some of the leaders of Rainbow Party (e.g. Dimitris Lithoxoou) are not Macedonians, some of the core members cannot speak the language, and their journal is in Greek. Some people from Polypotamos vote for Popular Orthodox Rally.
People who are more nationalist usually vote for New Democracy. Socialists attract the majority, having a �tolerant� policy. Communists and leftists don't believe much in the importance of ethnicity.

Yes, national identity is not defined only by language. It�s complicated, but which �target group� are you interested in?

So, you�re an optimist and believe Polypotamos is a �M1� village. You�re not in Australia, are you? Why don�t you pay a visit there and listen for yourself? Take a silent walk on the streets, the square and the falls and listen to children playing in the schoolyard, young boys playing football, old people in cafes. You wouldn�t trust me. Why don�t you find out yourself?


I�m afraid I don�t understand it. Do you want to know how we call the language in Greek? Do you want to know if I consider them Greeks? Be more clear.

My irritation level has driven me to respond here. As everyone has pointed out, political elections obviously do not a constitute a census! The real question is why is Greece permitted to disregard European standards by refusing to hold legitimate censuses, whereby people can declare their real ethnic identity!?

Never-the-less, by "rosetta's" own standards, that 30% of voters in Neret that voted for Rainbow/Vinozhito in the last European elections and thereby made it the NUMBER ONE party in the village, must consider themselves to be Macedonian in an ethnic sense!!

(Admin's, if "Rosetta" refuses to admit the existence of these Macedonians who do not consider themselves ethnic Greeks, in her/his very next post, I ask you to seriously consider taking stern measures...)

Moreover, three of the five members of the Executive of the AMHRC have family roots in the village of Neret, including the writer of these words. Collectively, our families and friends have made dozens of visits to Neret over the last ten years and our private research reveals that well over 75% of the inhabitants of Neret consider themselves to be Macedonian in a distinct non-Greek ethnic sense. However, many of them are still unwilling to reveal this in public for a variety of reasons.

To give but one example, there is a middle aged male in the village who possesses a very strong distinctly Macedonian and non-Greek ethnic identity, but refuses to mention this in public and refuses to give Rainbow any public support, because his son (who does not live in the village), was literally told that he could lose his job if his father continues to express "Skopjanism"...

You should visit us in Australia some time, all our kids playing in the streets and the schoolyard speak English, many of our older people in cafes are speaking English, yet they don't consider themselves "English", they are Macedonian!

Cheers,

George Vlahov - Neretets!

[markovr]

Thank you for your wonderful response George. People should read and re read what he wrote, especially this "To give but one example, there is a middle aged male in the village who possesses a very strong distinctly Macedonian and non-Greek ethnic identity, but refuses to mention this in public and refuses to give Rainbow any public support, because his son (who does not live in the village), was literally told that he could lose his job if his father continues to express "Skopjanism"...". The Greeks will stop at nothing to keep us silent, a truly disgusting herd of animals.

[rosetta]

The real question is why is Greece permitted to disregard European standards by refusing to hold legitimate censuses, whereby people can declare their real ethnic identity!?

Probably because there are no such standards. Greece recently adopted EU standards and stopped recording religion in censuses.

Never-the-less, by "rosetta's" own standards, that 30% of voters in Neret that voted for Rainbow/Vinozhito in the last European elections and thereby made it the NUMBER ONE party in the village, must consider themselves to be Macedonian in an ethnic sense!!

Yes, according to Rainbow�s terminology their national conscience is �not Greek� but �ethnic-Macedonian�. There may be a few exceptions but that�s just details. I do consider their vote as a declaration of national identity.

Moreover, three of the five members of the Executive of the AMHRC have family roots in the village of Neret, including the writer of these words. Collectively, our families and friends have made dozens of visits to Neret over the last ten years and our private research reveals that well over 75% of the inhabitants of Neret consider themselves to be Macedonian in a distinct non-Greek ethnic sense. However, many of them are still unwilling to reveal this in public for a variety of reasons.

So, maybe you can tell us if you classify Polypotamos as a M1, M2 or M3 village.
I don�t disregard that things are not always what they seem. According to Nova Zora you seem to be a Professor of Philosophy in LaTrobe University of Melbourne. Are you?

http://novazora.gr/arhivi/604

You should also advise the rest 45% of your people there, that they should not vote for the exact opposite of their beliefs, or I would not believe they believe it.

To give but one example, there is a middle aged male in the village who possesses a very strong distinctly Macedonian and non-Greek ethnic identity, but refuses to mention this in public and refuses to give Rainbow any public support, because his son (who does not live in the village), was literally told that he could lose his job if his father continues to express "Skopjanism"...

I wonder what kind of job is that. A civil servant for instance can not lose his job even if his father is found to be a Turkish secret agent.

[Bill77]

Probably because there are no such standards. Greece recently adopted EU standards and stopped recording religion in censuses.

No recording of religion and no recording of ethnicity.

Greek Census Form

1) Are you Grik? (if answered no, you don't exist therfor are not counted)


This must take you guys hours to fill out. Rosseta, what if you get stuck? is there a number a citizen can call?

[Vangelovski]

No recording of religion and no recording of ethnicity.

Greek Census Form

1) Are you Grik? (if answered no, you don't exist therfor are not counted)


This must take you guys hours to fill out. Rosseta, what if you get stuck? is there a number a citizen can call?

Bill77, there's only one check box for "YES". There is no option to tick "NO".

[AMHRC]

Probably because there are no such standards. Greece recently adopted EU standards and stopped recording religion in censuses.

Yes, according to Rainbow’s terminology their national conscience is “not Greek” but “ethnic-Macedonian”. There may be a few exceptions but that’s just details. I do consider their vote as a declaration of national identity.

So, maybe you can tell us if you classify Polypotamos as a M1, M2 or M3 village.

I don’t disregard that things are not always what they seem. According to Nova Zora you seem to be a Professor of Philosophy in LaTrobe University of Melbourne. Are you?

http://novazora.gr/arhivi/604

You should also advise the rest 45% of your people there, that they should not vote for the exact opposite of their beliefs, or I would not believe they believe it.

I wonder what kind of job is that. A civil servant for instance can not lose his job even if his father is found to be a Turkish secret agent.

When one says standards, one must not confuse this with laws. The vast majority of EU countries do permit their citizens to declare their ethnic identity. That does in fact constitute a standard!

Moreover, Article 2 of the Treaty on the European Union begins by declaring that, “The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights…”, while Article 3 (ex Article 2 TEU) of the same treaty commits the EU to “respect its rich cultural and linguistic diversity”. A country that refuses to permit an ethnic minority to demonstrate its existence via the holding of a census that enables it to do so, can hardly be said to be adhering to these precepts!

Rainbow's "terminology" is Macedonian - "ethnic-Macedonian" is only used where appropriate in certain reports/statements. Finally at least, it appears that you admit the existence of Macedonians in Neret - though I will leave it up to the admin's to decide if this is satisfactory...


I classify Neret as a village in which the majority of the population considers itself to be Macedonian - our research has revealed that to us; though we are not yet in a position to make that research public. Primarily, because many people are fearful of repercussions.


If the author of the article in question wrote that, he made an error. I am a postgraduate student at La Trobe University, where I am writing a thesis that straddles both Sociology and Philosophy. However, I have also been a Tutor of first year Sociology and Anthropology at La Trobe - probably this is where the author of the article confused things and made his error. I have also guest lectured in 3rd Social theory at Monash University, seeing as you are so interested....


It's not easy to overcome decades of persecution, but you can rest assured that we and others are trying!

What else would you like to know? His name, address and telephone number maybe? Don't waste my time with your nonsense!