Due to the Emblem on Zito Prilep, Greek side forfeits woman's handball match

[Frank]

Voltron given that 51 percent of Macedonia is in Greece do you think it quite plausible that vases ect depicting the sun symbol would be found inside Greece’s border. But does this prove a Greek put it there or a Macedonian put it there a couple of millennia or more ago.

It isnt Macedonian culture that the Greeks have assimilated but the Jewish and Albanian too whilst everything unearthed in Occupied Makedonia is part of the Greek Ethos without question this extends to living human Beings

So when an Athenian highlights an artefact it can be no different then Jews today showcasing the entire plan of Isreal and Palestine is Jewish in character when anyone would understand that isn't true

Sofians also practice the same assimilation and appropriation the Tatars are a only amateurs about it

So yeah I can deal with it very well but it all is Macedonian to me

[Volk]

Nicely said OziMak!

[Soldier of Macedon]

Its been around Greece since time immemorial, deal with it.........

It was a Pan-hellenic symbol in antiquity........

It has been unearthed in Macedonia and Thrace also. Greeks have never used this symbol in a collective 'Pan-Hellenic' manner, don't talk garbage. The Macedonians are the only people that adopted it as a national symbol, rather than merely applying it as a decoration on vases or other objects.

[Coolski]

Ah the greek game of smoke and mirrors.

[Voltron]

It has been unearthed in Macedonia and Thrace also. Greeks have never used this symbol in a collective 'Pan-Hellenic' manner, don't talk garbage. The Macedonians are the only people that adopted it as a national symbol, rather than merely applying it as a decoration on vases or other objects.

Its a Pan-Hellenic "symbol" (Yes symbols are used in decorations).
Not only in Macedonia and Thrace is it found but also in Magna Graecia, Peloponnese, Asia Minor, and Pontus. Bascially wherever there were Greeks present. That falls in line with the " Pan " terminology. Its not " Garbage" or Smoke and Mirrors its just the way it is.
They also predate the Macedonian control over Greece.

[Voltron]

Voltron given that 51 percent of Macedonia is in Greece do you think it quite plausible that vases ect depicting the sun symbol would be found inside Greece’s border. But does this prove a Greek put it there or a Macedonian put it there a couple of millennia or more ago.

If the Macedonians are the beloved tribe of Greeks would not Greece have been proud to display their name as an equal amongst all the beloved parts of Greece instead of making Macedonia a dirty word.

If the Virginia sun was discovered in 1978 then do you not find it strange it took until 1988 when the Serbs informed Greece they could not hold Yugoslavia together anymore for the Greeks to officially change everything from province of Northern Greece to Macedonia literally overnight in the anticipation of Macedonia becoming an independent state from Yugoslavia.

Would not the symbol of a beloved tribe of Greeks fortuitously now found have been proudly displayed on everything from the first day it was discovered yet despite copywriting the symbol chose not to use it until 1993 when it was known Macedonia was definitely independent of Yugoslavia.

If the argument that the province of northern Greece was made up for administrative purposes as it also included Thrace and Macedonia and the name Macedonia was never deliberately hidden and always known and promoted is to be believed then why not keep using it after Macedonia became independent of Yugoslavia…after all wasn’t it for administrative purposes and isn’t Thrace still there.

I put it to you on the preponderance of the evidence the Greeks did not view the Macedonians as one of their beloved groups and hence hid there name in administrative mumbo jumbo and their symbols behind museum walls instead of proudly being displayed from every street and government building and only tacitly acknowledged their existence out of no choice since countless books including the Bible refer to Macedonia and deliberately used the word Greek instead of Macedonian in referring the Alexander’s campaigns in history books but used Athenian and Spartan ect in the wars against Troy ect. and as such by the Greeks deeds we can conclude it is more likely a Macedonian hand crafted the vase ect you now choose to proudly display.

Ozi, Unless the Macedonians were going all over Greece, boarded a ship sailed to Sicily and proceeded to Pontus littering their decorative belongings, coins, statues, ect, than I really dont see how your story fits. No, the vase that is shown is not from Macedonian territories. Its from the 6th century BC and currently in the Louvre Museum in Paris where its authenticity is confirmed and readily available for anyone to see. Its really a non-issue.

Regarding the Churches and Monestaries the Sunburst is usually associated with the Virgin Mary. They can be found in almost any Orthodox Church. There is a good example in Panagia Soumela monestary in Pontus Modern Day Turkey.

[Frank]

Its a Pan-Hellenic "symbol" (Yes symbols are used in decorations).
Not only in Macedonia and Thrace is it found but also in Magna Graecia, Peloponnese, Asia Minor, and Pontus. Bascially wherever there were Greeks present. That falls in line with the " Pan " terminology. Its not " Garbage" or Smoke and Mirrors its just the way it is.
They also predate the Macedonian control over Greece.

No you are wrong and confusing the matter are you aware the Sunburst, can be found across many Civilisations
But it is us the Macedonians whom have taken it as a National Symbol

understand the difference Cretan

[Frank]

Ozi, Unless the Macedonians were going all over Greece, boarded a ship sailed to Sicily and proceeded to Pontus littering their decorative belongings, coins, statues, ect, than I really dont see how your story fits. No, the vase that is shown is not from Macedonian territories. Its from the 6th century BC and currently in the Louvre Museum in Paris where its authenticity is confirmed and readily available for anyone to see. Its really a non-issue.

Regarding the Churches and Monestaries the Sunburst is usually associated with the Virgin Mary. They can be found in almost any Orthodox Church. There is a good example in Panagia Soumela monestary in Pontus Modern Day Turkey.

I honestly cant understand your first point of view

But on the 16 Ray Macedonian Sunburst THAT not the decorative Orthodox Church Iconography is what I and others are referring to. On each structure the 16 Ray Sunburst is clearly visible, it was me who took a picture of the Collums of the St Demitria Church in Bitola (it has been posted on this Forum before)

Other Macedonian Orthodox Churches as far as the Skopje have examples of the 16 Ray Sunburst of Alexander the Great clearly visible, in fact that Greek agent Vernovski destroyed an entire alter piece of the 16 Ray Sunburst in St Iliaja Church in Skopje 3 years ago.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Not only in Macedonia and Thrace is it found but also in Magna Graecia, Peloponnese, Asia Minor, and Pontus. Bascially wherever there were Greeks present. That falls in line with the " Pan " terminology.

So? That doesn't indicate where the symbol originated from or any particular affinity. The fact is, for the Hellenes, it was a decoration, for the Macedonians, it was a national symbol.

[Frank]

Stop being kind to this Worm everyone

[Soldier of Macedon]

So long as he is respectful and diplomatic he is free to express his opinion, approach the matter with intellect rather than attitude, you'll find that it often works quite well.

[Pelister]

Fact is the New Greeks (invaders and colonists) have stolen the sunburst from the Macedonians.

I mean, here we have a group of predominatly Turkish speaking plantaganists, who have no historical connection to Macedonian territory, before the 1920s, stealing a symbol in use by the Macedonians as historically theirs. What could be more absurd? The New Greeks are thieves and liars, they always have been and will continue to be.

[Frank]

So long as he is respectful and diplomatic he is free to express his opinion, approach the matter with intellect rather than attitude, you'll find that it often works quite well.

Nothing changes the fact he is liar I could care less about him being polite

Enough of the high moral ground we Macedonians display for what to have dialogue with them to what end

[Voltron]

Nothing changes the fact he is liar I could care less about him being polite

Enough of the high moral ground we Macedonians display I rather see Athenians not breathing the whole mass of animals they are

Frank, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
We got bigger fish to fry mate. Your barking up the wrong tree with the wrong group of people.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Enough of the high moral ground we Macedonians display for what to have dialogue with them to what end

Frank, you're the last person that should be giving advice on behaviour, approach or dialogue. Macedonians don't need to lower themselves to the level of their detractors to get the message across.

We got bigger fish to fry mate.

Really? Who are the bigger fish, and who is 'we'? You're not still dreaming about an anti-Islam union between Macedonians and Greeks, are you? Who is the enemy? Turks? Albanians? Weren't your leaders sipping coffee with ethnic Albanian extremists from Macedonia last year? I wonder if Dora and Ahmeti were speaking Greek, Albanian, or Arvanite, lol.