Macedonia: Patriots, Traitors, Enemies and the Ignorant

[Vangelovski]

Jankovska,

You need to read over this thread - YOU are the one arguing in favour of a "strong leader", not me.

As for Jesus, he is God. God came down to earth as a man but he still had both natures - fully man and fully God at the same time. God is not a 'leader' in the sense that you are thinking of - he is our Creator - he made us. He's not some guy who had some good ideas that people have latched onto. He has revealed to us eternal truth and the moral law. He has also given us a free will, which means we are to think for ourselves (having said this, it is much wiser to keep in mind eternal truth and moral law when doing so).

[Risto the Great]

Most are concerned about having a public health system, social benefits, a growng economy... this is where I stopped them. I reminded them this government was delivering this to them and not selling them down the river like SDS.

Then they'd start to bleet about how good life was under Tito...... fucking Tito I'd say to them, what did he do for the Macedonian? They look at me like a rabbit looking into a spot light.

It is the same reason why Macedonians in Greece don't vote for Vinozito. They (like all of us in our home countries) are concerned about matters such as having a good public health system, social benefits, a growing economy etc.

Which makes the job of the Diaspora an almost singular one. Preserve and promote the identity at all cost.

Tito did a good job on the Macedonians .... I wish he were around today so they could see how it all would have ended up. Something like Cuba right now I would imagine.

[Ljubanec]

It is the same reason why Macedonians in Greece don't vote for Vinozito. They (like all of us in our home countries) are concerned about matters such as having a good public health system, social benefits, a growing economy etc.

Which makes the job of the Diaspora an almost singular one. Preserve and promote the identity at all cost.

Tito did a good job on the Macedonians .... I wish he were around today so they could see how it all would have ended up. Something like Cuba right now I would imagine.

Yeah, he did a good job on the Macedonians, but we have to blame ourselves as well as him for the state of Macedonia today.

[Big Bad Sven]

What leaders has macedonia had in the past who was for the interest of the people? We have been pulled by both arms and both legs are their people in the shadows who would make a good strong leader for Macedonia?

The last great and true Macedonian leader and patriot was Cento, but he was unfortunately disposed off by another Macedonian “hero” and loved man, tito…..

The ironic thing is that Cento thought hard internally against the Yugoslavs in regards to issues such as the return of the Serbian colonists that were expelled by the Nazi’s and also the forced serbinization of the Macedonian language and culture…. He would be rolling in his grave now seeing the young kiddies in macedonia and even in the Diaspora worshipping Serbian people/culture/music and sadly Tito……

[Big Bad Sven]

I am a bit confused and sitting on the fence in regards to the debate about the Macedonian leader issue….

My real concern is that of recent times Macedonians have to easily and too sheepishly followed and trusted corrupt and vile individuals who posed as “leaders” of the Macedonian people, and never questioned their “leaders” motives until it was too late, or sadly still follow these people even though they are openly anti-macedonian.

We have Macedonian idiots who are still loyal to that idiot “Brate Ljube” and still call him “brate”, we had Macedonians turning on and even killing other Macedonians because they looked at Tito as a god and followed his every words and never questioned his motives. And don’t forget about the sheep who follow SDSM leaders….

Perhaps this idea of waiting on our asses for a true leader to emerge and dig us from the hole we made is the problem with Macedonia and Macedonians today. I personally would love to see a party or organisations in macedonia with many Macedonian patriots and intellectuals working together for the greater good of Macedonia, like the original VMRO.

But perhaps you need great men like Goce Delcev or Cento or re-ignite the flame of passion amongst the Macedonians….

[Risto the Great]

I have not seen Macedonia's leaders shoot for the stars yet. Constantly talking of finding suitable names does not help empower the Macedonian people. But they get what they pay for I would imagine, and they have not paid much.

[Phoenix]

I have not seen Macedonia's leaders shoot for the stars yet. Constantly talking of finding suitable names does not help empower the Macedonian people. But they get what they pay for I would imagine, and they have not paid much.

Since independence our leaders have been constantly shooting themselves in the foot, in terms of shooting for the stars, our political evolution is in its formative years, akin to the period before the discovery of gun-powder, so I think their ability to shoot for the stars is some way off...

In almost 2 decades since independence we've accumulated a shitload of 'leaders', so many worthless and embarrassing clowns, that one has to wonder where our current crop will take us...

[Mikail]

Compared to who Macedonia has had as leaders, and the current alternatives, I think we're lucky with who we have. We all know Crvenkopoulos would have sold us and our identity out years ago.

I have on record all the Macedonian leaders speaches that were made on Ilinden last year.

Talk about inspirational. I had the biggest Pink fans recording and watching Gruevski's address to the nation. Another Ivanovs. Did they thank me...... you better believe it. I took people from Bitola to Ovcareni for Ilinden...... did they know there were Macedonians in Greece..... not really, and they never wanted to believe there was........ Alot has changed since I was there 8 years ago and I'm looking forward to the change in attitude next year again I hope.

We have zaspani lugje on all sides of our divided nation. It's never to late za da se razbudaat. But wake the fuck up people! Wake up!

[Risto the Great]

I took people from Bitola to Ovcareni for Ilinden...... did they know there were Macedonians in Greece..... not really, and they never wanted to believe there was........

I am continually reminded of how naive the Macedonians in the Republic are in this matter. I visit the Macedonian Republic and because my people are from Aegean Macedonia, somehow I am Greek. No wonder they have little fight in them. Most think that Macedonians stop at the modern artificial borders. It is dumb, naive and a real product of what they have (not) been taught about their history. It disgusts me and highlights how much more needs to be done.

Anyone would think that not a single Macedonian freedom fighter ever came from Egej.

To add salt to the wound, I had some recent immigrants from Macedonia tell me that I speak Bulgarian. Far be it from me to not adopt all the modern Macedonian conventions like ignoring the dark vowel since about 1950.

GUS is a guy I went to school with.
G's is what I sit on.

.... OK .... rant off.


Well done Mikail.

[Serdarot]

...

Anyone would think that not a single Macedonian freedom fighter ever came from Egej.

...

I am not sure i understood it good...

You want to say that Macedonians from Republic of Macedonia are denying the contribution made by the Macedonians from Egejska, in the fight for independent Macedonia?

Macedonians from the Republic of Macedonia don´t know that Macedonians are living in Ofcharani?

If this what you are writing here wasn´t tragic, i would "lol"...

Goce Delchev is "burried" in Sveti Spas in Skopje, and he is for most of the Macedonians the most significant/important Revolutionary.

Nikola Gruevski is also from Egejska.

Also lots of us, the "Macedonians from the Republic" are "mixed", we have parents or grandparents from Egejska, so we are very aware of many things you mentioned.

I think you guys from Australia are spitting too much on the rest of the Macedonians.

Get off your donkey, again...

Ако плукате по Македонците, сватете дека сами се плукате. Ако сте Македонци, се разбира.

[Risto the Great]

Serdarot, you are right. You are not sure you understood it good.
If it didn't happen so frequently, I would think I was talking to rare exceptions of stupid people.
It happens more times than I care to admit and I am becoming less and less surprised.
"The people over the border are Greeks and we in the Macedonian Republic are the only Macedonians."
They already gave up the fight Serdarche ... now it is Bulgarians and Greeks on the other side of the borders. Too many Moronadonians not enough Macedonians. If there were more Macedonians in Macedonia, the country would not have been sold out.

[Phoenix]

I don't believe that things are as bad as what Mik has described, especially in Bitola and it's surrounding villages, I think most people know the exact nature of what is going on over the border, most of the people from those regions have been divided from their families, to suggest that they don't know about egejci and their plight is misleading at best...apathy and indifference, well that's another story...

[Serdarot]

RtG, than you have a choice.

Help me and people like me who are trying to work on their spirit (and education), or start something, and ask for help, you might get more than you expect.

The most stupid thing you can do is to keep on spitting
----------

Phoenix, people in Bitolsko and Prilepsko have some "strange" sence of humour, so i can imagine them making such stupid jokes as Risto mentions. But it aint funny, at all...

[George S.]

Ever since macedonia became independent things have gone from bad to worse.Why because they were forced to change the flag & now the name.Our oiliticians are constantly letting us down because we let them plus they get elected with about 30% of the vote,plus they are in cohhoots with the albanians who get more rights then the macedonian citizens eg a country within a country.We macedonians seem to be our worst enemy simply because we are ready & willing & able to be manipulated,capitulating & compromising all the time.
As someone mentioned there's no modern heroes like Gotse Delchev etc.Where's the positive side,where's the hope of a better future.Perhaps as serdarot said we need to get off the donkey again.

[Risto the Great]

I don't believe that things are as bad as what Mik has described, especially in Bitola and it's surrounding villages, I think most people know the exact nature of what is going on over the border, most of the people from those regions have been divided from their families, to suggest that they don't know about egejci and their plight is misleading at best...apathy and indifference, well that's another story...

I absolutely beg to differ.
People will tell me they travel to Greece, how they speak Macedonian there. Yet still call them Greeks.

I am positive most have no idea of Macedonians (or seek to claim them as ethnic Macedonians) across the border. I suspect or hope this might change as travel becomes easier.