Albanianization in Macedonia

[Bratot]

Agreed. Any campaign for Macedonian freedom should be morally justifiable. The cause is morally justifiable and the means with which to achieve it are as well. There is absolutely no need for secrecy and I too am highly suspect of organisations and individuals who claim the need for secrecy surrounding their policies and actions.

Of course, WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR THEN?

VANGELOVSKI,

I will ask everyone to hold on with their solutions, because we expect to be really crowded tonight, just to HEAR YOUR SOLUTION!

Here it is, Grande Vangele in live to announce the solution we have been waiting for.

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

I've repeaded my views on this forum and Maknews before that ad nauseum. If you have ignored all of those (probably hundreds) of posts, don't assume that everyone else has as well.

In fact, I openly advertise a summary my "solution" in my signature block. Maybe you have never read it, but I can assure you, that it appears on at least 2000 posts in this forum.

[Bratot]

Bratot,

You have demonstrated in your posts that we either CANNOT or SHOULD NOT determine our own affairs (at least not all of them).

You are utterly wrong.

That is the key ideological difference between yourself and others such as RtG, SoM, Indigen, Aleksandrov and myself.

Where are the rest?

If our ideology is reserved for only 5 people than we are seriously fucked.

I think you seriously offended all other members.

Further, this belief that we cannot or should not determine our own affairs is a result of YOUR slave mentality which only YOU can resolve within your own heart and mind.

Vangelovski,

seriously now, do you really think anyone would bought that speech?

Don't sell me some spiritual bs but give US (not me) practical solutions, because this way you aren't any further, ideologically speaking, from a sectary.

[Risto the Great]

You disagree with the current flag and other matters stemming from the interim accord but fail to support the ideology that rejects the consequences of the interim accord.

First of all I'm not sure if we have the same understanding on what defines an 'ideology', but I do think what you stand for is monocracy of opinion(your).

I see no issues with the ideology, but rather in the depth of our reasoning.

You prefer to over simplify everything and I chose to be more carreful of...

Bratot, if you don't agree with what I mean by "ideology" so be it. I hate big words like that anyway. Call it "belief system" if you like.

Either way, you have avoided my observation entirely. You reject the interim accord but do not reject the consequences arising from it.

[Bratot]

Bratot,

I've repeaded my views on this forum and Maknews before that ad nauseum. If you have ignored all of those (probably hundreds) of posts, don't assume that everyone else has as well.

In fact, I openly advertise a summary my "solution" in my signature block. Maybe you have never read it, but I can assure you, that it appears on at least 2000 posts in this forum.

Ohh I see, daaamn, now every single Macedonian that wasn't aware of that internet forum is spared from the SOLUTION of OUR NATIONAL RESCUE!

How about few copy paste of your solution?

Or maybe you wasted these 2000 posts on this forum for a better reason?

Happy New Years Vangelovski

[Bratot]

Bratot, if you don't agree with what I mean by "ideology" so be it. I hate big words like that anyway. Call it "belief system" if you like.

Either way, you have avoided my observation entirely. You reject the interim accord but do not reject the consequences arising from it.

The same way you avoided the part where I complied with some of your reasoning.

Lets open totally new thread just for the Interim Accord and see it practically analysed, because I also don't go for a cheap talking on a forums.

Why not to see if you are really that deep in the understand of the legal aspects, open a thread?

[Pelister]

There is no point being vague, Bratot. This idea we 'create better times' is a bit like UMD supporters trying to convince the average Macedonian that our admission to the E.U is going to solve all our problems, and that 'prosperity' will magically appear. Its an illusion, and I'm sick of these Macedonian illusionists, skirting the key issues and side stepping the main problems. An honest appraisal of the Greek 'claim' to Macedonia, and the terms put to us, means a hard look at recent history. We find the same attitude that Macedonian politicians have to history, they have to the Albanians in our country - no honest and hard look at it, nothing to learn from it, no forward planning, no policy on how to secure the State and make it stronger. Right now we need greater centralisation, while the E.U and our enemies are telling us to decentralise. There are some very obvious and very effective ways of securing south-west Macedonia, arresting it from the Albanians and cutting of the hands at the same time, of foreign interferers and trespassers, and at the same time neutralizing the effects of the Interim Accord for the medium term, but the government won't do it. The Macedonian government needs to see how the Israeli bureacracy buys land for the 'Israeli people' in perpetuity, builds and plants Jews there, legally.

[Risto the Great]

The same way you avoided the part where I complied with some of your reasoning.

Did you want me to deal with something else you have said? Repeat it if you like and I will make a genuine attempt to answer it if you can explain why you reject the interim accord but do not reject the consequences arising from it. Based on your cryptic response I feel the answer will be something to do with you embracing the legality of the agreement.

I have created a thread for the Interim Accord. Feel free to continue there if you prefer.

In the meanwhile, please objectively review your recent answers on this thread and advise how a neutral reader would interpret them.

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

If you think that resolving YOUR patriotic feelings within YOUR own heart and YOUR ideological shortcomings within YOUR own mind is BS, then WHOSE heart and mind do you want to resolve them for you? Macedonians used to allow Belgrade, Sofia or Athens to tell them what to think and feel, now it seems they look to Brussels and Washington. Who do you look to, to tell you what to think and feel?

Patriotic activists from 150 years ago have defined the cause as freedom for the Macedonian people to determine their own affairs, including the 5 people I mentioned. If you don't believe that the Macedonians SHOULD be FREE to determine their own affairs (which clearly you do not), what exactly do you believe the cause is and WHO should determine Macedonian affairs?

How can you not be aware of my signature block which is included in all of my 2000 posts???? Do you want me to copy and paste my signature block into the body of my post in addition to having it there as a signature block? Will that help you notice it? How about you just look at the read writing directly below?

[Bratot]

In the meanwhile, please objectively review your recent answers on this thread and advise how a neutral reader would interpret them.

How would you know if you are far from neutral?

Hot potatoes right, I might get use to it.

[Risto the Great]

How would you know if you are far from neutral?

Exactly, I am not neutral ... I am pro-Macedonian and am viewing your responses rather negatively at the moment.
That is why I was asking you.

[Bratot]

Bratot,

If you think that resolving YOUR patriotic feelings within YOUR own heart and YOUR ideological shortcomings within YOUR own mind is BS, then WHOSE heart and mind do you want to resolve them for you? Macedonians used to allow Belgrade, Sofia or Athens to tell them what to think and feel, now it seems they look to Brussels and Washington. Who do you look to, to tell you what to think and feel?

Patriotic activists from 150 years ago have defined the cause as freedom for the Macedonian people to determine their own affairs, including the 5 people I mentioned. If you don't believe that the Macedonians SHOULD be FREE to determine their own affairs (which clearly you do not), what exactly do you believe the cause is and WHO should determine Macedonian affairs?

How can you not be aware of my signature block which is included in all of my 2000 posts???? Do you want me to copy and paste my signature block into the body of my post in addition to having it there as a signature block? Will that help you notice it? How about you just look at the read writing directly below?

Vangelovski,

Your answer for the solution was merely a dogmatic and what you ask for all this time long is just a pure national indocrination where we all are expected not to question or critically examine the dogma.

I asked for a PRACTICAL solutions, presuming we already have enough big critical mase to employ their own affairs.

The same thing Makedonin continuously asked from you as well but you as always failed to give.

Until you provide such practical solution, you're not only not authorized to evaluate the solutions of others but you aren't being of a real usage for the Cause as well.

[Bratot]

Exactly, I am not neutral ... I am pro-Macedonian and am viewing your responses rather negatively at the moment.
That is why I was asking you.

Then it's about a time you think how your 'hot potatoes' are viewed by the majority of Macedonians when you attach such exclusive right to yourself to be the arbitary.

[Vangelovski]

Bratot,

A moral revolution is a necessary pre-condition for any national liberation. It is not merely ideological indoctrination, but rather an awakening and acceptance by individuals of their rights and responsibilities as a human beings.

I challenge you to name one example of a national liberation where the people concerned did not believe they deserved to determine their own affairs. It is the most fundamental aspect of any national liberation and impossible without it. You either cannot understand what every successful national liberation movement has achieved and how they achieved it, or you're just playing stupid.

Regardless, here is a quick "practical" check list for YOU:

1. Understand that you are a human being.
2. Realise that you have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
3. Exercise your natural rights and meet your responsibilities.

How about YOU try those 3 simple steps?

You forgot to tell us what YOU believe the Macedonian cause is and WHO you believe should tell the Macedonians what to think and feel, seeing as you do not believe the Macedonians should determine their own affairs.

[Bratot]

Bratot,

A moral revolution is a necessary pre-condition for any national liberation. It is not merely ideological indoctrination, but rather an awakening and acceptance by individuals of their rights and responsibilities as a human beings.

I challenge you to name one example of a national liberation where the people concerned did not believe they deserved to determine their own affairs. It is the most fundamental aspect of any national liberation and impossible without it. You either cannot understand what every successful national liberation movement has achieved and how they achieved it, or you're just playing stupid.
Regardless, here is a quick "practical" check list for YOU:

1. Understand that you are a human being.
2. Realise that you have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
3. Exercise your natural rights and meet your responsibilities.

How about YOU try those 3 simple steps?

You forgot to tell us what YOU believe the Macedonian cause is and WHO you believe should tell the Macedonians what to think and feel, seeing as you do not believe the Macedonians should determine their own affairs.

Once again, you go round and round and round with the standard insinuations. It's boring.

How about you FINALY show us how will you achieve that moral revolution, how will you teach our people to:
1. Understand that THEY are a human being.
2. Realise that THEY have inalienable natural rights and corresponding responsibilities.
3. Exercise THEIR natural rights and meet THEIR responsibilities.

This is the one thing you continuously missing to point out, but enjoy to theorise what we need.