Greeks, seriously.

[Risto the Great]

Thanks for the many words. Is this a German thing?
I note not a single fact was presented in response.
It is easy to talk like this.

It appears you were unable to show me any evidence of the Slavic language BEFORE Kiril & Metodi. As a consequence, they either did not exist (do you believe this?) or they existed without written proof for about 300 years. If a Slavic language can exist for 300 years without any proof thereof, then so can an Ancient Macedonian language. And there you were thinking I meant the Ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic one. Giorikas, you will have to take your blinkers off, they don't let you see the full picture.

[Venom]

Gorillas not only doesn't want to see the whole picture, the rather mentally handicapped man wants to bleach the canvas and repaint it as he likes.

[El Bre]

Thanks for the many words. Is this a German thing?
I note not a single fact was presented in response.
It is easy to talk like this.

It appears you were unable to show me any evidence of the Slavic language BEFORE Kiril & Metodi. As a consequence, they either did not exist (do you believe this?) or they existed without written proof for about 300 years. If a Slavic language can exist for 300 years without any proof thereof, then so can an Ancient Macedonian language. And there you were thinking I meant the Ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic one. Giorikas, you will have to take your blinkers off, they don't let you see the full picture.

Must be those Hellenic coloured glasses

[Giorikas]

Thanks for the many words. Is this a German thing?
I note not a single fact was presented in response.
It is easy to talk like this.

It appears you were unable to show me any evidence of the Slavic language BEFORE Kiril & Metodi. As a consequence, they either did not exist (do you believe this?) or they existed without written proof for about 300 years. If a Slavic language can exist for 300 years without any proof thereof, then so can an Ancient Macedonian language. And there you were thinking I meant the Ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic one. Giorikas, you will have to take your blinkers off, they don't let you see the full picture.

I think it was you who promised facts. An opinion will do for the time being. Then back it up if you gather your evidence eventually.

You want facts? Fact is: There is no relation between Slavic languages and the possible existance of a non-Greek ancient Macedonian language. I do not have to prove anything about Slavic languages and I do not intend doing so. When will you understand that?

You brought the Slavic thing up and I do not care to discuss about it since it is irrelevant. It is irreleveant because in any case we have no proof of the existance of a non-Greek ancient Macedonian language in the first place, so our quest stops there. In fact we have not even proof of a single word in modern Macedonian, that can not be found in any other Slavic language.

I challenge you, prove me wrong and show me some evidence. You are not able to it seems. A handful of quotes that can be interpreted any way you want will not be enough to prove the existance of a language. Evidence in written or spoken form will be helpfull to prove your point, or at least fragments (like we have in Etruskian or Thrakian for example).
The quotes you have are I believe (give or take) all related to Alexander the Great, but surely that can not be the proof of a language that must have existed for centuries before. (where there was no mention of this language)

[Venom]

You fucking asshole. YOU prove that ancient Macedonian WAS 'greek'.

[Giorikas]

1)
There are indications all over the Ancient writters, look up here: Ancient Macedonian Language

Britannicca says that some Oxford dude is clasifieing the Ancient Macedonian Language tentatively as Aeolic Greek.

So there is no prove about the Language of the Ancient Macedonians of being what so ever. There is very little material there.

2)
You can or can not deny anything, it does not really matter, can't you understand?

just because today our Language is scuffed with in the Slavic Group, this does not mean that this language begun to exists in around 1500 years ago on the Balkans as you like to poiont out or it is from somewhere else than the Balkans.

Our language is firstly very multy layered language, and does not oblige to the normal "Slavic" Language.

Second, the Term Slavic was most likely a Byzantine Coinage which Political Reasons behind, and no Ethnic or Linguistical affiniation what so ever, for more read here "The Makeing of the Slavs" Florin Curta.



Conclusion, we know less about the Ancient Macedonians and their Language and thats why there is no consensus about them, and scientists are parted in Pro Greek and Non Pro Greek Parties.

But that does not prevents you from claiming that there is absolute no douobt about the Greekness of the Ancient Macedonians, which is very biased.

In my oppinion and research, Ancient Macedonan as well as their Language was mixture of many Ethnicities who came firstly united under one Kingdom and with time they mixed, thus producing Macedonians same goes for the Language.

Some of them specially the Royals were sometimes out of Political motivation Pro Hellenic.

But if they understood the same as you understand under the Term Hellene is not neccesserally a must be, for more look up on my Signature!

All we know is that we don't know for sure.

Hello Makedonin,

So we are either way making assumptions about things without knowing anything. You can not prove that ancient Macedonian existed, and I can not prove it did not. Just we know for a fact that we don't know anything really. So why making those claims?

Giorikas

[Risto the Great]

It appears you were unable to show me any evidence of the Slavic language BEFORE Kiril & Metodi. As a consequence, they either did not exist (do you believe this?) or they existed without written proof for about 300 years. If a Slavic language can exist for 300 years without any proof thereof, then so can an Ancient Macedonian language. And there you were thinking I meant the Ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic one. Giorikas, you will have to take your blinkers off, they don't let you see the full picture.

I will quote myself this time. Since your dribble did not even relate to my text Giorikas. You said you would not enter into a debate about the Slavic language. And I was not even talking about one. Read it again. Just in case English is a problem for you, it highlights how a native language can exist without having a written form. Lets work through this issue with you. Treat it as a lesson in English if you like.

Do you know the Slavic name for Germans? You can tell it to your neighbours next time. There is a good reason why they used the term.

Spolaj Ti (Say this to a Russian next time they try to invade Germany, let me know if they understand)

[Giorikas]

I will quote myself this time. Since your dribble did not even relate to my text Giorikas. You said you would not enter into a debate about the Slavic language. And I was not even talking about one. Read it again. Just in case English is a problem for you, it highlights how a native language can exist without having a written form. Lets work through this issue with you. Treat it as a lesson in English if you like.

Do you know the Slavic name for Germans? You can tell it to your neighbours next time. There is a good reason why they used the term.

Spolaj Ti (Say this to a Russian next time they try to invade Germany, let me know if they understand)

Message #81 of this thread you introduced Cyril, Methodus and Cyrrilic languages. This is what you wrote:

' The Macedonian language is indeed alive and kicking today.
I will tell you what I do not have proof of .... your favourite historians tell us when the Slavs invaded and subjugated most of Greece (much less Macedonia). Can you tell me any proof of the Slavic language existence prior to Kiril & Metodi? Your historians say it was the dominant language from the slavic invaders and we don't see a hint of written language for 300 years. Please find me something about this, and then reconcile it to your dribble above. '

In message # 91 you are still stuck with your Slavic story, but somehow you want to make me believe I made all that up ...?

Before that we shortly discussed about Russian (introduced by you in the discussion) in the sense that the Russian aristocrats were able to speak in French. (which is true without a doubt). In a different context.

So again; you started talking about Slavic languages and I maintained that Slavic languages are irrelevant to the discussion. Read back.

You were about to make a point it seems. You finally made the point here: So Russians do presumably not understand 'Spolaj ti'... Now what, have you proven that ancient Macedonians had their own non-Greek language ? Any idea what you're saying here ?

[Risto the Great]

In the 1970's we had a drink in Australia called the Clayton. It was meant to taste like an alcoholic drink but contained no alcohol. Now it is used to refer to something that is not the real thing. Your response above is a Clayton's response.

Should I ask my question yet again? Based upon your responses in the Chento thread, it is obvious you are not here for dialogue (I am not sure you can even understand dialogue). But I am humouring myself with you.

Anyway, I will make it simple. You can't show me proof of the ancient Macedonian language, you can't show me proof of the Slavic language of Macedonia before Kiril & Metodi. What can you say with authority?

I can say with an abundance of proof that my language has been dominant in the region for about 1500 years. I could say more but I would fall into the trap of the modern Greeks in believing in myths.

[Risto the Great]

In fact we have not even proof of a single word in modern Macedonian, that can not be found in any other Slavic language.

I gave you a single word (Spolaj ti). It disproved your statement and you decided to go on a verbal jaunt about some other distraction. This is your standard approach.

[Risto the Great]

In message # 91 you are still stuck with your Slavic story, but somehow you want to make me believe I made all that up ...?

In message #91, I wrote the following:

It appears you were unable to show me any evidence of the Slavic language BEFORE Kiril & Metodi. As a consequence, they either did not exist (do you believe this?) or they existed without written proof for about 300 years. If a Slavic language can exist for 300 years without any proof thereof, then so can an Ancient Macedonian language. And there you were thinking I meant the Ancient Macedonian language was a Slavic one. Giorikas, you will have to take your blinkers off, they don't let you see the full picture.

I expressly mentioned that an Ancient Macedonian language could have existed without being documented in written form. Just as the Slavic language of the Macedonians a few hundred years later existed prior to Kiril & Metodi. The fact that you STILL believe I was talking about a Slavic language for the Ancient Macedonians says more about you than you may care to admit.

I apologise to the other readers who understood this the first time around. It must be boring.

[Giorikas]

In message #91, I wrote the following:

I expressly mentioned that an Ancient Macedonian language could have existed without being documented in written form. Just as the Slavic language of the Macedonians a few hundred years later existed prior to Kiril & Metodi. The fact that you STILL believe I was talking about a Slavic language for the Ancient Macedonians says more about you than you may care to admit.

I apologise to the other readers who understood this the first time around. It must be boring.

Yeah, here we go again: 'Could have..., maybe..., possibly was..., not to be excluded..,' That tells us nothing. We passed that. I already told you that comparing ancient Macedonian with (for example) Slavic languages brings us nothing. I don't want to answer your questions about Slavic languages and I don't see the relevance.
It is irrelevant for this discussion. Knowing whether Slavic languages existed in a written form before the intoduction of the Cyrrilic alfabet tells us nothing one way or the other.

It's very simple: How do we know if a language exists? We need proof of a spoken and/or written form. We have neither in the case of Ancient Macedonian and certainly not whether it could be related to your modern Macedonian language. (let's call it the Slavic form of Macedonian if I may)
Just because we have no proof today of this does not mean that it can never have happened, we said that before. In the case of an ancient Macedonian language, what remains in the absence of proof is wishfull thinking. In Greek we say, 'hope dies last' and that's very true.

This, for you, painful excercise becomes more interesting since you seem to want to demonstrate your version of knowledge about the existance, differences and nuances in the other Greek dialects and whether Koine can be considered Greek, Hellenic, Demotic, Katharevousa or not. Well, you picked the wrong language. The language that we call Greek (in English) or Ellinika in Greek today is the result of different fases (like all languages that evolve). That's well documented, regardless how it was called in the particular period or place. You focus on Greek in the absence of any real knowledge of ancient Macedonian. That's noted. As little as is known about ancient Macedonian, as much is alternatively known about Greek.

No matter how you try to ridicule what I say, you can't get around the facts I mentioned, so it's logical you should focus on other things.
The facts I mentioned (regardless how you might read them) are not even unfriendly, anti-Macedonian or intended to riducule you. It says more about you and how shaky your beliefs are that you take it as such.
It also doesn't make all your other points you raise on this website untrue, but you are walking on very thin ice here in this particular case. That you do not want to give up defending a lost cause makes me wonder how credible your arguments are regarding other topics. You ridicule yourself and your cause by stubbornly denying things you can not. You accuse me of not answering your questions yet I am waiting months now for some clarification that you should be able to provide top of your head in no-time. Too bad for you my friend.

[Risto the Great]

Just because we have no proof today of this does not mean that it can never have happened, we said that before. In the case of an ancient Macedonian language, what remains in the absence of proof is wishfull thinking.

Well done again. We agree.
I said to you we cannot even prove the Slavic language of the Macedonians for 300 years prior to Kiril & Metodi, much less anything else further back in time. You almost agree but are left with some of that "wishful thinking" that seems to permeate the modern Greek's mind.

Notwithstanding this, if I were transported back in time to find out the modern Greek language was exactly the same as Ancient Macedonian. After killing myself, I would come back on this forum as a ghost and write .... "stiff shit, what about 1500 years of documented proof that the dominant language of the Macedonians was a Slavic one? "

[Risto the Great]

So seriously. Has anyone met a greek or knows of a greek or if there is a greek reading this that agrees and knows of what the true history of greece is. Of what happened in 1913. And of what happens in Northern greece this very day. Please if they do, send them on here, let's have a chat.

Short answer = no.
Long answer = no.

I can say unequivocally that most Greeks I know have no idea of Greek history other than some very rudimentary nationalistic rants. Nice people, but not the most reliable for meaningful dialogue.

Then we have the (rare) opposites who twist history around so that it suits a modern agenda. This was necessary for all nations building a national identity 150 years ago. But a little tiresome now.

[Svoliani]

I gave you a single word (Spolaj ti). It disproved your statement and you decided to go on a verbal jaunt about some other distraction. This is your standard approach.

Spolaiti ? You were told about this word already . Of course a Russian wont understand it, it comes the Greek ' Eis polla eti '
In the near future i will tell you from where you got the word ' praish '
from , like as in sho praish instead of Kakosi.