Philiki Eteria founders most likely Vlachs & Slav

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Athanasios Tsakalov was one of the founders of Filiki Eteria, he was born in Janina.

Who else has noticed that surname?

[tchaiku]

Winegrower has given a pretty much accurate picture of the use of both forms of the language. I would like to specify, though, that there is no ONE form of Ancient Greek. Ancient Greek varies widely, depending on the age when the different ancient documents were written, or on the dialect that their writers used. In this way, when you read Homer (Odyssey or Iliad) you'll most probably understand nothing but a few words. It's totally incomprehensible. But you will surely track down many words as being the origin of similar words which have developped into Modern Greek. On the other hand, if you read texts of later times, i.e. Aristotle or Thucydides, you realise that the language has evolved a lot since Homer and you understand a lot more. But even though you understand many things, you still face three main difficulties: 1. the syntax is very different and makes it difficult to understand the overall meaning of a phrase, especially if it's a long one, 2. verb/noun types can be so different that you might understand the verb (i.e. the verb "to fight") but not who is fighting or whether they will fight in the future or if they have already fought, etc., and 3. some words are identical to modern Greek words but have a slightly or totally different meaning (i.e. cosmos, which nowadays means "the world", also had the meaning of "decoration", back then. On the other hand, you can still track down the meaning of "decoration" in Modern Greek, since "cosmos" is used in words, like "cosmetic"). All in all, the Attic dialect, which was spoken at the Athens area at around 500 B.C., is the closest to Modern Greek, as far as Ancient Greek is concerned.

The evangelical language, found in Gospels, is a lot easier to understand, since the Gospels were written hundreds of years after the times when what we call "classical Greek literature" was written.

I can tell you that I studied Ancient Greek quite a lot at school, I was able to translate an ancient Greek text of average difficulty quite easily and I could conjugate/inflect any verb or noun, or just about; and, still, 15 years later, when I look at trial examination tests for University, I understand so little that it's quite embarassing.

One last thing, though: since Modern Greek lacks some types of some verbs, we still have to use various forms of archaic language, coming from Ancient Greek, in order to complete the missing types. And, of course, some proverbs or expressions do remain the same.

Wrote quite a lot, didn't I..

https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/ancient-greek-in-modern-greece.1328548/

[Amphipolis]

pollás d᾿ ifthímous psychás Áïdi proḯapsen
iróon, aftoús dé elória tefche kýnessin

The red words are not used today

[tchaiku]

@Amphipolis

How much are ancient and modern Greek mutually intelligible? By percent?

[tchaiku]

*×××××××××

[Amphipolis]

These are poetic, not literal and accurate translations so they don't really help.

[tchaiku]

πολλὰς δ᾿ ἰφθίμους ψυχὰς Ἄϊδι προΐαψεν
ἡρώων, αὐτοὺς δὲ ἑλώρια τεῦχε κύνεσσιν
pollás d᾿ ifthímous psychás Áïdi proḯapsen
iróon, aftoús dé elória tefche kýnessin

και πλήθος αντρειωμένες έστειλε ψυχές στον Άδη κάτω
παλικαριών, στους σκύλους ρίχνοντας να φάνε τα κορμιά τους
kai plíthos antreioménes ésteile psychés ston Ádi káto
palikarión, stous skýlous ríchnontas na fáne ta kormiá tous

[tchaiku]

HOMERIC LANGUAGE:
Μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος
Mínin áeide theá Piliïádeo Achilíos

MODERN GREEK:
Τη μάνητα, θεά, τραγούδα μας του ξακουστού Αχιλλέα,
Ti mánita, theá, tragoúda mas tou xakoustoú Achilléa,

I actually see connections.

http://users.uoa.gr/~nektar/arts/tributes/omhros/il01.htm

[Amphipolis]

I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?

They are related to a certain degree, at least compared to other languages but not as much let's say Italian and Latin are.

This discussion may help, though it concludes the opposite.

https://italian.stackexchange.com/questions/1265/is-latin-to-italian-what-ancient-greek-is-to-modern-greek

I’ve never studied Latin, but it is considered a very easy language, though more complicated than English. Greek (modern or ancient) is way far more complicated.

In English nouns have two forms, in modern Greek 10, in Bible Greek 12 in Ancient Greek 18. That’s because except of singular, plural (and dual) we have 5 or 6 cases Also nouns have genres and adjectives appear in all genres.

In English verbs have two or three forms, in Greek (modern or ancient) about 36.

[tchaiku]

I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?

They are related to a certain degree, at least compared to other languages but not as much let's say Italian and Latin are.

[Dejan]

I really don't know much about the greek language. If the ancient and modern languages are unintelligible to each other, what is it that makes them related? Is it merely location they were spoken?

Is this something that future research would show that they are different languages that use the same alphabet? Something along the lines of the Macedonian language being used with the Greek alphabet?

[tchaiku]

That's right. I was being sarcastic. Most can't understand shit. And the ones that do understand have gone to great lengths to affirm their antiquity connection. But they have thrown in a whole bunch of really old words to make them feel good about themselves. Add a whole bunch of ancient sounding first names and hey presto, you are related to the ancient Greeks and everyone else are just barbarians.

Other than the alphabet, few words and pronunciations like ''us'' ''os'' but that is it. Even Latin is easier to learn than ancient Greek.

[Risto the Great]

I thought the Modern Greek language was completely unintelligible with the Ancient Koine tongue? It certainly appears that way when I look at the two side-by-side anyway.

That's right. I was being sarcastic. Most can't understand shit. And the ones that do understand have gone to great lengths to affirm their antiquity connection. But they have thrown in a whole bunch of really old words to make them feel good about themselves. Add a whole bunch of ancient sounding first names and hey presto, you are related to the ancient Greeks and everyone else are just barbarians.

[tchaiku]

Aren't you tired of speaking about things you can't understand? Almost nobody can speak ancient Greek in Greece now, especially perfectly. A University Professor of Ancient Literature certainly can, I’m not sure about his students. Common modern Greeks (like me) are not even educated to "speak" it, only to read and understand it.

==

I did look once to those ancient texts. Ancient Greek has no grammar structure it is literally impossible to understand them nearly as close you can understand Latin text. You need a translator while you are reading the text.

[Amphipolis]

Of course, now they all speak perfect ancient Greek. The best experiment ever.

Aren't you tired of speaking about things you can't understand? Almost nobody can speak ancient Greek in Greece now, especially perfectly. A University Professor of Ancient Literature certainly can, I’m not sure about his students. Common modern Greeks (like me) are not even educated to "speak" it, only to read and understand it.

On the contrary, foreigners DO try to learn how to speak it, as we usually do with foreign languages. The problem is that they use the so-called Erasmian pronunciation and they're not sure which era or type of Greek they speak. The overall results are hilarious and they certainly cannot lead to an effective contact with a modern Greek.. or an ancient Greek (in case of time-travel). Still, they could contact if they would write down what they're trying to say.

I thought the Modern Greek language was completely unintelligible with the Ancient Koine tongue? It certainly appears that way when I look at the two side-by-side anyway.

The term Common (Koine) Greek refers to Bible Greek, not the classical Ancient (Attic) Greek. This is much closer to Modern Greek. Furthermore, everybody was/is familiar with it, as all Church liturgies and hymns are (more or less) in this language.

Still, people do not practice to form sentences and speak this way, only to read and understand it.


==