The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece

[George S.]

Voltron what is your response if i say to you the greeks were colonisers.What does that mean that they were not native to the land they came at some point.That means a lot in that they were not indigenous to the land.
Also for your information greece is also colonised by greeks that means that they are NOT native to the land,when they got there there were mycenians there & other people like macedonians who were not related to the greeks.Does it sound familiar to you??

[Daskalot]

I would like to remind people of the
title of the thread. This is about Ethnicity, from the word Ethnos. Look up the meaning in a dictionary to avoid further embarassment.

So you are pulling that old trick on us, ok lets play.

Could you give us a translation into English of the modern Greek word "Ethnos" and the meaning and uses in the modern Greek language today?

Could you also give us the meaning of the English word "Ethnicity" and its uses in the English language today?

Voltron this must be a piece of cake for you seeing that you are fluent in both languages.

[Voltron]

I dont see the difference Daskalot ? Dont know what your implying.

As for Carlin, A mix of three equal parts to create a result is what your saying.
What I have been saying is that if you have a base and add something to it does not mean the base is gone. Its simply absorbed.

[Risto the Great]

What I have been saying is that if you have a base and add something to it does not mean the base is gone. Its simply absorbed.

So what would you call the christian Turkish nationals that came to Macedonia in the 1920's? I certainly wouldn't call them the "base".

[Voltron]

Again thats not saying that Greeks werent in Macedonia prior to the refugees. The Macedonian issue again is a different story in itself.

What I call the Greeks that came from Turkey to Macedonia could be defined as replenshing an area that was changed for some time. I know its not exactly an accepted idea around these parts but just being honest.

[Risto the Great]

Again thats not saying that Greeks werent in Macedonia prior to the refugees. The Macedonian issue again is a different story in itself.

they were merely a tiny minority.

What I call the Greeks that came from Turkey to Macedonia could be defined as replenshing an area that was changed for some time. I know its not exactly an accepted idea around these parts but just being honest.

So you're saying the people that came to Macedonia who couldn't speak Greek as you know it had the effect of replenishing a land that had a ... what ... 1400 year gap of non Greekness. Is that your understanding?

Then you have to prove any purported Greekness before 1400 years as well. Then you have to prove how this Greekness started.

Isn't it tiresome and extremely wishful that the only links Greeks have to Macedonia are thousands of years old and highly tenuous to say the least?

Go ahead, line up your ducks.

Just being honest when I say the Greekness of Macedonia is best shown by the christian former Turkish nationals which pretty much says it all about the Greekness of Macedonia.

[Voltron]

So you're saying the people that came to Macedonia who couldn't speak Greek as you know it had the effect of replenishing a land that had a ... what ... 1400 year gap of non Greekness. Is that your understanding?

Then you have to prove any purported Greekness before 1400 years as well. Then you have to prove how this Greekness started.

Isn't it tiresome and extremely wishful that the only links Greeks have to Macedonia are thousands of years old and highly tenuous to say the least?

Greek is not a foreign language in Macedonia. Even if I follow your logic and say Ancient Macedonians werent Greek, they sure were Hellenised by the time the Romans came into play. Either which way the Greek character of the region was there. We did not introduce a foreign tongue or a foreign ethnos to the region.

It can get tiresome sometimes, Il agree with that. But I only express it when I think somebody doesnt understand why we say what we say.

[Daskalot]

I dont see the difference Daskalot ? Dont know what your implying.

So you are not a team player, ok let me do it for you then.

The modern Greek word ΕΘΝΟΣ (ETHNOS) translates into English as NATION. And is used in that context in the modern Greek language today.

The word ETHNICITY in the English language has the following meaning; an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or cultural ties; "ethnicity has a strong influence on community status relations"
That is one definition, but as you can see it is not exclusively connected to NATION as the modern Greek usage of the word.

This is why most Greeks have a hard time understanding the English word Minority.

[Voltron]

Daskalot, wasnt trying to be a prick or anything.
Anyway, the definition is clear.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ethnos

Noun 1. ethnos - people of the same race or nationality who share a distinctive culture
The second part fits your statement above about Nation. It works both ways.

[Bill77]

I can't be bothered typing the whole thing out. So i will just use your post and change it a little.

Albanian was not a foreign language in Greece. Even if I follow your logic and say Ancient Greeks were like the modern Greeks, they sure were Albanianised by the time the west came into play. Either which way the Albanian character of the region was there. They (west) did introduce a foreign tongue or a foreign ethnos to the region.

The difference is, my version (of your above edited post) can be corroborated. Where yours is....as you said, "we say what we say" and nothing else.

[Voltron]

Bill,thats not cool, someone might actually think I said something like that.
Of course Albanian is foreign to Greece, Greek isnt. Even if you were to argue that Greek wasnt native in Ancient Macedonia, it still was used (aka not foreign). Use of the Greek language predates Slavonic languages in the Balkans.

Your version of my quote would be correct if Albanian predated Greeks in Greece. They didnt so its not a worthy comparison.

[Risto the Great]

Greek is not a foreign language in Macedonia.

It was a minority language. It was a language the Greeks spoke as opposed to the Macedonians.

Even if I follow your logic and say Ancient Macedonians werent Greek, they sure were Hellenised by the time the Romans came into play. Either which way the Greek character of the region was there. We did not introduce a foreign tongue or a foreign ethnos to the region.

Are you all there mate? If you actually believe yourself, then you would also have to accept any Greekness was short lived and at best represented a very small period of influence in Macedonia. I don't even believe the influence was anywhere near as that though. It would also have been a foreign tongue and ethnos at the time of any perceived "Hellenisation". Because you cannot be Hellenised without going through a process of change ... but you surely know that already.

[Risto the Great]

Use of the Greek language predates Slavonic languages in the Balkans.

Do you mean written language? Because you would have to be unequivocally sure about the nature of the ancient Macedonian language.

[George S.]

//"So what would you call the christian Turkish nationals that came to Macedonia in the 1920's? I certainly wouldn't call them the "base".I wouldn't call them macedonian.Or even greek macedonian they don't hold anything macedonian apart from being on macedonian soil.In other words fakes.The greek govt used them for means to an end merely to move out the majority macedonian population & replace them with the turkish nationals.So i don't think they are macedonian.Just rember the real macedonians that were indigenous were moved out until macedonians became a minority.Pretty sneaky stuff designed to say that it's all greek & macedonians are greek.But that's not the only thing that happened to the macedonians.How about the attrocities that were committed on them,the forced assmilations.The oaths to speak only greek & not macedonian.The drinking of castor oil as punishment for speaking..

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]

It was a minority language. It was a language the Greeks spoke as opposed to the Macedonians.

The issue here is was it "foreign". It wasnt.

Are you all there mate? If you actually believe yourself, then you would also have to accept any Greekness was short lived and at best represented a very small period of influence in Macedonia. I don't even believe the influence was anywhere near as that though. It would also have been a foreign tongue and ethnos at the time of any perceived "Hellenisation". Because you cannot be Hellenised without going through a process of change ... but you surely know that already.

I believe the Ancient Macedonians are one in the same as the rest of the Greek tribes in the area. So to me,it isnt a foreign intervention of assimilation. What I said is even if I was to agree with you and say they werent, they were hellenised way before any other type of language shift occured in the Balkans in the mid 6-7th AD for whatever reasons.