#OccupyWallStreet movement

[Risto the Great]

I'm all for communism. Just make sure I keep my sports car (+ caviar, castle, champagne etc.).

[vojnik]

I'm all for communism. Just make sure I keep my sports car (+ caviar, castle, champagne etc.).

While everyone else is living on a dollar a day? Will you be our leader Risto the Great? Or perhaps even better our god?

[Vangelovski]

While everyone else is living on a dollar a day? Will you be our leader Risto the Great? Or perhaps even better our god?

I think RtG was being sarcastic Risto is our very own MTO personal wealth creationist and accumulationist extraordinaire

[vojnik]

I think RtG was being sarcastic Risto is our very own MTO personal wealth creationist and accumulationist extraordinaire

As was I in return lol. Hard to show sarcasm on the internet

[Risto the Great]

I actually hate it when people have too much money. It is a curse. I often encourage them to give it to me.

[Volk]

This is where comrade Volk the Goldfish said we are enslaved.

Did you plagarise this from the Commie Manifesto? What foolishness, to think that your wealth is accumulating because the value of your house(s) is! Wow, what a giant of economic thought comrade Volk has shown himself to be!

your articulation skills are quite pathetic...

aim to enslave does not equal = I Volk am enslaved, nor does it mean you or everyone else is enslaved, it simply means there is a goal (aim) for enslavement.

Kapish?

[vojnik]

I love these people in today's world that think it's time for a change starting all these protests all a bunch of lazy hippies. The main purpose of this is to increase tax revenue so all these dole bludging hippies getting more welfare benefits has it ever occurred to anyone that maybe these high salary earning people actually worked to receive it that they didn't wake up one day and find millions in their bank account then decided to invest and find loop holes in tax systems etc.

[Vangelovski]

your articulation skills are quite pathetic...

aim to enslave does not equal = I Volk am enslaved, nor does it mean you or everyone else is enslaved, it simply means there is a goal (aim) for enslavement.

Kapish?

Volk, are you a home owner or are you hoping someone else's home is nationalised and given to you..you know, from those that worked for to those who couldn't be bothered...or something like that? Maybe you're hoping banks are nationalised and your mortgage is written off? Or maybe you think we should all live in monolithic apartment buildings that are all the same so that we are all equal and we're not tricked into believing that are homes are accumulating wealth for us?

[Volk]

Volk, are you a home owner or are you hoping someone else's home is nationalised and given to you..you know, from those that worked for to those who couldn't be bothered...or something like that? Maybe you're hoping banks are nationalised and your mortgage is written off? Or maybe you think we should all live in monolithic apartment buildings that are all the same so that we are all equal and we're not tricked into believing that are homes are accumulating wealth for us?

How about you stop trying to put words in other peoples mouth and try some basic articulation...

Materialistic consumerism which is the backbone to Capitalism does not aim to benefit humanity but make short term profit.

What do you prefer short term profit for yourself, or long term sustainability for your children and grandchildren?

[Vangelovski]

How about you stop trying to put words in other peoples mouth and try some basic articulation...

Materialistic consumerism which is the backbone to Capitalism does not aim to benefit humanity but make short term profit.

What do you prefer short term profit for yourself, or long term sustainability for your children and grandchildren?

Capitalism is the ONLY economic system that has ensured long term sustainability and growth. How long did your communist utopia last? Did it ever deliver anything other than poverty/famine, corruption and incompetence?

Don't mistake greed for capitalism, or self-interest for that matter. Capitalism is the only economic system which has managed to control both greed (as opposed to self-interest) and laziness to a much greater degree than any other system and that is because it makes people earn their money as opposed to guaranteeing them something for nothing. Further, it was socialism/communism that focused the entire wealth of states into the hands of a few greedy Stalinists through the process of "collectivisation".

Articulation? What are you on about comrade Volk?

So, the house comrade Volk? If you do own one, maybe you wouldn't mind having it 'nationalised' and given the the hippies in Melbourne so they can use it to camp out in and smoke pot?

[Phoenix]

You sound like Marx like its 1848. Another fool who's utilising the technological advances that only capitalism has been able to bring about to claim its useless and then exercising the freedom to express these vacuous views while claiming he's enslaved!

The technological advancements that resulted from the post WWII era 'space race' can be traced back to the Soviet Union.
Soviet era advances in aerospace engineering, particularly in the field of metallurgy was generations ahead of Western (read capitalist) knowhow.

This aerospace knowledge lead to further advancements including the Soyuz launch vehicle which is currently the only launch vehicle available to service the capitalist inspired ISS. To this day the Soyuz craft has an unmatched safety and launch success record.
The ISS is based on the experience gained from the long term habitation of space by the 'communist' Mir Space Station and its communist cosmonauts.

Before all of this we had the communist Sputnik that kicked proceedings off...

On the battlefield the AK47 reigns supreme and has infamously gained 'weapon of mass destruction' status due to its world wide proliferation and being at the centre of every post WWII conflict.

The T-34 battle tank has inspired generation after generation of tank design.

Other notable Soviet era inventions include nuclear reactor technology used in icebreakers, advances in medicine and computing.

In good ol' 'cold war' fashion the Soviets (all communists) were portrayed as inferior in technology and as ugly people. Post WWII pop culture is full of these misleading representations of the communist world and the alleged poor treatment of their citizens and their evil motives.

I find it amusing that once the 'iron curtain' fell, how quickly the West embraced everything from the Tetris computer game (soviet invention) to contracting the services of Soyuz to maintain the ISS, whilst our magazines are full of the most stunning former Soviet and other communist nation 'super models'...not to even mention the artistry of their ballet companies, their orchestras and other artists of all mediums.

[Vangelovski]

The technological advancements that resulted from the post WWII era 'space race' can be traced back to the Soviet Union.
Soviet era advances in aerospace engineering, particularly in the field of metallurgy was generations ahead of Western (read capitalist) knowhow.

This aerospace knowledge lead to further advancements including the Soyuz launch vehicle which is currently the only launch vehicle available to service the capitalist inspired ISS. To this day the Soyuz craft has an unmatched safety and launch success record.
The ISS is based on the experience gained from the long term habitation of space by the 'communist' Mir Space Station and its communist cosmonauts.

No, if you look a little deeper, you will find that these advances can be traced back directly to German scientists and indirectly England and the industrial revolution, which could never have happened without a capitalist system.

On the battlefield the AK47 reigns supreme and has infamously gained 'weapon of mass destruction' status due to its world wide proliferation and being at the centre of every post WWII conflict.

No, in fact, the AK47 is basically a peasants weapon and the reason its so popular is because you really don't need to know anything about guns in order to use it. Other than that, its virtually useless. There are many, many much better rifles out there in terms of precision, comfort, technological superiority and overall reliability. But they require the user to have some basic training.

The T-34 battle tank has inspired generation after generation of tank design.

They were a joke in comparison to the German panzer and the later 'T' models have not been able to compete with western equivalents.

Other notable Soviet era inventions include nuclear reactor technology used in icebreakers, advances in medicine and computing.

Not when you compare then to western advances.

In good ol' 'cold war' fashion the Soviets (all communists) were portrayed as inferior in technology and as ugly people. Post WWII pop culture is full of these misleading representations of the communist world and the alleged poor treatment of their citizens and their evil motives.

Have you spent any time at all in the former Soviet bloc or a current communist state? I have, its terrible even 20 years on.

I find it amusing that once the 'iron curtain' fell, how quickly the West embraced everything from the Tetris computer game (soviet invention) to contracting the services of Soyuz to maintain the ISS, whilst our magazines are full of the most stunning former Soviet and other communist nation 'super models'...not to even mention the artistry of their ballet companies, their orchestras and other artists of all mediums.

Have a think about where the hardware and software originated for Tetris and the Soviet space system. Also, have a think about which time period Russian culture (that was prized during Soviet times) originated in - I'll give you a hint, it was mostly before the 1917 catastrophe.

Phoenix, if you are so impressed by the abomination that communism was, have you ever thought about living in one of these eastern bloc countries? Have you ever thought about who developed and produced the computer you are using to espouse communist "advancement"? Have you ever thought about who originally developed the electricity from which your computer runs? Have you ever thought about why you can even afford a computer and why millions in the former communist block still can't, even 20 years after communism collapsed?

[Volk]

Capitalism is the ONLY economic system that has ensured long term sustainability and growth. How long did your communist utopia last? Did it ever deliver anything other than poverty/famine, corruption and incompetence?

Don't mistake greed for capitalism, or self-interest for that matter. Capitalism is the only economic system which has managed to control both greed (as opposed to self-interest) and laziness to a much greater degree than any other system and that is because it makes people earn their money as opposed to guaranteeing them something for nothing. Further, it was socialism/communism that focused the entire wealth of states into the hands of a few greedy Stalinists through the process of "collectivisation".

Articulation? What are you on about comrade Volk?

So, the house comrade Volk? If you do own one, maybe you wouldn't mind having it 'nationalised' and given the the hippies in Melbourne so they can use it to camp out in and smoke pot?

You really are making an absolute fool of yourself... Firstly I am not a communist, its a system that does not work, its corrupted by humanity..
But thats your style, try to label people with your blinded perspectives.

Secondly long term sustainable growth? Are you fucking kidding me? 50-70 years is long term? Do you know any history what so ever or do you think it began last century... Is destroying the planet sustainable?

Stick to subjects that have have some understanding in...

[Phoenix]

Tom, Soviet era scientists, artists and sportsmen made many impressive discoveries and achievements, that doesn't make me or anyone recognising this a communist. I'm merely acknowledging their achievements, you're the one crediting them with nothing.

Communisms eventual failure was its inability to provide for mankinds greed, eventually capitalism will fail due to its inherent inability to reign in mankinds hunger for greed.

Getting back to the theme of this thread, I believe the 'Occupy' movement at its core recognises the dangers of an unchecked, immoral, free market system...

BTW Tom, the AK47 is ironically the quintessential capitalist consumer product... its simple design, fairly compact size and adaptation to mass production. It is inexpensive to manufacture, and easy to clean and maintain. Its ruggedness and reliability are legendary...More AK-type rifles have been produced than all other assault rifles combined....
The iPhone of its time and genre...

[EgejskaMakedonia]

It's quite simple. Communism is a system that works on paper, but has yet to be proven truly effective in practise. Do you know why? Because of personal greed and corruption, something even the west has mastered in our modern age.

"Of course, defeating imperialism is impossible if you don't recognize its source is the United States of America. In a capitalist system, people live in an invisible cage. For example, they accept the myth of the self-made man. But they do not understand that opportunities for the majority are determined by forces completely beyond individual control."

This statement is a testimony of the 'invisible' forces of our western 'fathers' America. Although a little extreme, there is no denying that such a cage exists. Before I'm accused of pro-communism, I'd much rather live in a moderate capitalist system, however this does not make it exempt from the same corruption and misuse of power that was prevalent in communist regimes.

Che Guevara Speech on Imperialism (November 30, 1964) - YouTube

Watch this speech by Guevara, it hurts to see the other side of the story. Macedonians can actually relate closely with the ongoing and past struggles of the Cuban people. America were imperialists then and are imperialists today, look no further than Iraq/Afghanistan, they have become excuses for a self-interest policy developed by the west.

Cuba is led by communists, yet their revolution helped to bring change to the nation. They boasted world-class free public healthcare, free education services, etc. Yet, they had and continue to have their downfalls and that is why democracy is the only system that ensures the people supposedly have control.

Unfortunately many people have fallen victim to the propoganda of America, and I don't blame them. The majority of our papers are owned by Murdoch, so it is only safe to assume we usually only hear what they want us to hear.

Do some research into the House Committee on Un-American Activities and McCarthyism in regards to Communist paranoia and tell me it isn't ridiculous. Everything is becoming privatised these days and I don't agree with it. In the mean time, our public hospitals are under-funded, public schools receive little funding in comparison to private schools, and everything has essentially become a business, even sport. That's capitalism doing its job, and although it does bring some great benefits, it is also creating further divisions between the 'rich' and the 'poor.'

I'm comfortable the way I'm living and I wouldn't necessarily change it, but people still seem to have the view that the 'west' are the heroes and the communists are 'evil.'

In the wise words of Scarface, 'you know what capitalism is? Getting f*cked!'