United Macedonia Diaspora

[Buktop]

buktop what is it they have done.

Feel free to check their website, I am not their spokesman.

[Phoenix]

Of course UMD could always perform better, but to tell you the truth, I think they are doing alright. I would like to see some more initiatives concerning the actions of the citizens in the diaspora, but this is a touchy subject as 501(c)(3) non-profit organizations are subject to restrictions concerning elections and lobbying.

Buktop, isn't UMD involved in lobbying already...doesn't Meto travel the globe 'talking' to policy makers and individuals on behalf of Macedonians in general and the Macedonian Government specifically...?

[Rogi]

I think the difference is that you can't make financial contributions to any politicians, candidates or parties, but speaking to them about issues is okay.

Without making any financial contributions, it's hardly lobbying. I mean, you have to rely on good will and honesty from policy makers (oxymoron?).

[Buktop]

Buktop, isn't UMD involved in lobbying already...doesn't Meto travel the globe 'talking' to policy makers and individuals on behalf of Macedonians in general and the Macedonian Government specifically...?

Lobbying in the sense of cash or cash equivalents.

public charities (but not private foundations) are permitted to conduct a limited amount of lobbying to influence legislation. Although the law states that "no substantial part" of a public charity's activities may be devoted to lobbying, charities with very large budgets may lawfully expend a million dollars (under the "expenditure" test) or more (under the "substantial part" test) per year on lobbying

[Phoenix]

I think the difference is that you can't make financial contributions to any politicians, candidates or parties, but speaking to them about issues is okay.

Without making any financial contributions, it's hardly lobbying. I mean, you have to rely on good will and honesty from policy makers (oxymoron?).

Call it what you will but UMD hide behind a name that falsely portrays a massive membership of concerned Macedonians, that in itself is a powerful tool, I'm sure the 'issue' of money can be easily 'hidden' for tax purposes and the renumeration of 'favours'...

[Rogi]

At the same time, the WMC also have a name that portrays a massive membership. I'm just making the point that it is not only UMD that has an effective name.

If I was going to form an organisation that would 'lobby' the world pushing for the Macedonian cause, I'd pick an effective name too. We all would, I'm sure.

As for the 'issue' of money being easily 'hidden' and so on, I'm sure it can be too. I wont disagree with you there. That has become a sore point within UMD too with some disagreeing with the current UMD position on certain matters relating to what the finances can and cannot be used for.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If I recall correctly, he basically gave the poor excuse that because the MK Government were apparently preparing to accept a compromise, he just jumped along for the ride. I pointed out to him that the UMD was supposed to be there to represent us, and not 'act' as a puppy for the MK Government.............

Do you remember the name of the thread?

Check the below link, post #14, for what Meto said:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2354&highlight=Meto+interview&page=2

One should understand the interview was given during a time when Democratic Republic of Macedonia for UN/EU/NATO use only was on the negotiation table, proposed by Ambassador Nimetz. Macedonia's name was "technically" changed temporarily in 1993 to "the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia." Unfortunately, this temporary reference has stuck for much longer than the initial 6 months in the UN Security Council Resolution. The Macedonian Government, to our knowledge and based on our contacts, accepted this proposal Democratic Republic of Macedonia just as it accepted Republic of Macedonia (Skopje) few days before the NATO Summit.

Check this link, same thread, post #21, for my response:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=30717&highlight=Meto+interview#post30717

The UMD aren't there to be 'yes-men' for the Macedonian Government, they are there to forever remind them of the Macedonian Diaspora's presence and sentiment. If the Macedonian Government is showing signs of caving in, it is the UMD's job to assist them in staying on the right path, not to support a name change.

As far as I recall, that is the last time that Meto addressed the issue, and I received no further responses with regard to the interview. Nevertheless, as I stated earlier, with his response he is basically indicating that, given the 'democratic' prefix being on the "negotiating table" at the time of the interview, "one should understand" that the UMD were prepared for a name change.

I would love to know what this guy was thinking at the time, from the acronym, to 'democratic', to what after that? The UN is going to constantly allow name changes every few months until we 'get it right'? In the same interview he also proposed a bilateral name with Greece. That leaves ROM for all other use. It should only ever have been Republic of Macedonia, only. So when I read UMD statements that claim they have "never" been for a name change, a part of me laughs at the naivety, another part of me becomes annoyed at the blatant denials.

Have I misinterpreted it, Buktop, or can you see what I see? Can you understand now, when I say that, had Meto's 'idea' come to fruition, we would effectively have 3 names?

[Buktop]

Check the below link, post #14, for what Meto said:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2354&highlight=Meto+interview&page=2

Check this link, same thread, post #21, for my response:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=30717&highlight=Meto+interview#post30717

As far as I recall, that is the last time that Meto addressed the issue, and I received no further responses with regard to the interview. Nevertheless, as I stated earlier, with his response he is basically indicating that, given the 'democratic' prefix being on the "negotiating table" at the time of the interview, "one should understand" that the UMD were prepared for a name change.

I would love to know what this guy was thinking at the time, from the acronym, to 'democratic', to what after that? The UN is going to constantly allow name changes every few months until we 'get it right'? In the same interview he also proposed a bilateral name with Greece. That leaves ROM for all other use. It should only ever have been Republic of Macedonia, only. So when I read UMD statements that claim they have "never" been for a name change, a part of me laughs at the naivety, another part of me becomes annoyed at the blatant denials.

Have I misinterpreted it, Buktop, or can you see what I see? Can you understand now, when I say that, had Meto's 'idea' come to fruition, we would effectively have 3 names?

Thanks SoM. Yes I see what you mean now concerning the 3 names.

Was it indicated whether the Democratic prefix was to be permanent or temporary?

I understand why Meto said what he said, but I also can't fully agree with it.

[Vangelovski]

Buktop,

Weren't you arguing black and blue that Meto had answered all these questions and that we had all been debunked??? Or is this the first time you actually watched the video clip?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thanks SoM. Yes I see what you mean now concerning the 3 names.

No problem Buktop, glad you are able to acknowledge this.

Was it indicated whether the Democratic prefix was to be permanent or temporary?

We both know, neither the UN, EU or NATO are interested in entertaining perpetual name changes within their respective organisations. Meto didn't indicate any further ammendments, and that part of him I can understand, because when you're 'winging it' you can't really foresee and influence the future, let alone make suggestions that are intended to eventuate at a later date. He certainly didn't indicate that it was a temporary suggestion, although having not done so has allowed him to take advantage of an exit route where he can alternatively claim it "was" a temporary suggestion. To be quite honest, I don't think that Meto himself knew exactly what he was suggesting. It is a terrible interview, but it could have been explained with some honesty and integrity, rather than the way it subsequently was.

I understand why Meto said what he said, but I also can't fully agree with it.

I am yet to meet another Macedonian in the Diaspora who was prepared to be called a 'democratic Macedonian' at the UN, the table of nations. All of us want to rid ourselves of the artificial acronym that is officially in use at the UN, but I am also yet to meet another Macedonian who was prepared to exchange the acronym for anything other than the (Republic of) Macedonia. I have found such Macedonians on the internet only.

While I was prepared to excuse Meto's ZMR interview and some other sorry examples as errors in judgement and/or wording, the sheer denials have unfortunately confirmed, for me at least, that this person is not fit or capable to be the leading voice of the Macedonian Diaspora. And thank God, he isn't. Too many times Buktop, these flip-flop 'leaders' have let us down. The Macedonian Diaspora are toughening up, and they want to see strength, integrity and consistency in the people who speak for them, they want their voice represented, and they don't want to be treated as insignificant pawns that can be fed any sort of lie or distortion.

Meto was not representing the voice or expressing the view of the Macedonian Diaspora in the ZMR interview. And his refusal to admit to this mistake indicates to me, that he cannot be honest with himself. So how on earth can he be honest with the Macedonian Diaspora, the people he claims to represent?

Ask him yourself Buktop, can you ask Meto if he accepted a name change and an effectively 3-name 'concept' in the ZMR interview? He will deny it, coeko sam se prai budala.

[Phoenix]

Thanks SoM. Yes I see what you mean now concerning the 3 names.

Was it indicated whether the Democratic prefix was to be permanent or temporary?

I understand why Meto said what he said, but I also can't fully agree with it.

Buktop, you 'missed' Meto's triple-name formula suggestion when you were preoccupied with diverting this part of the debate with your constitutional gluposti...

Buktop, cut the bullshit...your post is full of shit, at the start you saw the light for the first time after SoM guided you in the right direction, then you ask the question was it permanent or temporary and finally you finish by stating you understand Meto...

You're an idiot Buktop, you're not fooling anybody with your goody two-shoes routine...

[Prolet]

Phoenix, Dont be so upset, let the others have their opinion we know where we stand.

SOM, During the SFRJ era we where called Socijalisticka Republika Makedonija, I'd rather be called Demkratska Republika Makedonija then Severna Makedonija, but now there will be no name change whats so ever. 3 years ago we where in a much tougher position and we where fueled with fear that somehow we wont exist as a country anymore and that we will be isolated pretty much what the Opposition was trying to point out.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix, Dont be so upset, let the others have their opinion we know where we stand.

SOM, During the SFRJ era we where called Socijalisticka Republika Makedonija, I'd rather be called Demkratska Republika Makedonija then Severna Makedonija, but now there will be no name change whats so ever. 3 years ago we where in a much tougher position and we where fueled with fear that somehow we wont exist as a country anymore and that we will be isolated pretty much what the Opposition was trying to point out.

Prolet, we should NEVER even consider a name change let alone sit at a table discussing such madness because we have so many fuckin' idiots walking amongst us proposing possible solutions the door will remain ajar indefinately in the hope that enough fuckwits amongst us accept a change of identity.

Prolet, this is a very dangerous self defeating process, do people realise that we're the ones that will pay the ultimate price for this stupidity because the fuckin greeks don't stand to lose anything regardless of what happens...

[Soldier of Macedon]

SOM, During the SFRJ era we where called Socijalisticka Republika Makedonija, I'd rather be called Demkratska Republika Makedonija then Severna Makedonija, but now there will be no name change whats so ever. 3 years ago we where in a much tougher position and we where fueled with fear that somehow we wont exist as a country anymore and that we will be isolated pretty much what the Opposition was trying to point out.

Ete pak so istoto, zosto si davate drugi izbori be, zosto se predavate taka? Za mene, ili 'Republika Makedonija', i ako ne toa neka bidi samo 'Makedonija'. As for these other names, you can use them Prolet, you can 'rather' them, I on the other hand, don't have these complexes that force me to 'accept' such betrayal to my ancestry. You're by no means a traitor, but your suggestions tread the ground of treachery. Pazi se.

[Rogi]

Prolet, I can't believe you wrote that.

If my country is not called the Republic of Macedonia, then in my view, it is under occupation, even if its' occupiers are Macedonians.