Prespa Agreement

[Carlin]

Dec 5, 2018

The first public discussion on the draft amendments to the changes to the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia

URL - Entire session/video (more than 2 hours):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da3W09FIlmA

[Carlin]

Dec 6, 2018

The second public discussion on the draft amendments to the changes to the Constitution of the Republic of Macedonia

URL - Entire session/video (1 hour and 16 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpzIx1NkOnU

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/macedonian-greek-pm-s-to-run-for-nobel-piece-prize-12-17-2018

17 DEC 18

Macedonian, Greek PMs to be Nominated for Nobel Prize

The leaders of Macedonia and Greece, Zoran Zaev and Alexis Tsipras, are to be nominated for a Nobel peace prize for their efforts to achieve a historic agreement between their countries.

OOne of the 2015 Nobel Peace Prize winners, Tunisian economist Uided Bushamaui, has said she will nominate the two prime ministers of Macedonia and Greece, Zoran Zaev and Alexis Tsipras, for signing a landmark agreement between their countries.

“I see the Prespa agreement, in which both parties and the mediators have put so much energy, as an exceptionally significant process which deserves to be nominated for the Nobel Peace prize”, Bushamaui, told the media on Monday, adding that the agreement can serve as a model for problem-solving across the world. The Tunisian Nobel Prize winner is currently in the Macedonian capital, Skopje, where on Tuesday she will officially submit her nomination at a special ceremony, which other Macedonian and Greek diplomats, politicians and political observers have endorsed.

Macedonia and Greece signed a landmark agreement in June on resolving a long dispute over Macedonia's name and after spending the first part of the year in tough UN-mediated talks. The agreement was signed on the shores of Lake Prespa, which spans both countries, despite bitter opposition from right-wingers in both countries. The agreement, which is yet to be implemented in Macedonia, and must then be ratified in Greece, would end a decades-long dispute centered over the use of the term “Macedonia”.

Under the deal, Macedonia will change its name into Republic of North Macedonia in order to satisfy the concerns of neighbouring Greece, which has a province of the same name and whose historians have long claimed Macedonia as an exclusive part of Hellenic heritage. The agreement will open Macedonia’s doors to NATO and EU membership. Greece has thus far used its influence to veto its neighbour’s accession.

Bushamaui, who is the first woman head of the Tunisian Chamber of Commerce, was awarded the Nobel prize as part of the team that comprised the Tunisian “National Dialogue Quartet”, a coalition of local civil society organizations. The award went for the Quartet’s “decisive contribution to the building of a pluralistic democracy in Tunisia” in the wake of the so-called Jasmine Revolution of 2011.

This type of treachery = peace? For traitors only. And this Tunisian lady is clueless about Macedonia’s struggle against Greece.

[Risto the Great]

Zaev will be remembered as one of Macedonia's truly memorable non-Macedonians.

[Karposh]

I found a really useful article that attempts to sift through the endless pages of seemingly limitless clauses associated with the Prespa Agreement. It was produced to help people understand the Prespa Agreement better. The basic gist of the obligations on each nation are spelled-out below:

What Macedonia has to do

• Change the name to Republic of North Macedonia to be used everywhere
• Change the license plates of all vehicles from MK to NMK
• For a period of three years continue to change commercial names, trademarks and brand names
• Change all passports.
• Change all personal identification cards.
• Change all driver’s licenses.
• Change and print new money.
• Change all official documents and letterheads.
• Change the names of all official government and government related institutions.
• Change the Constitution of Republic of Macedonia.
• Allow Greece to request changes in the event of mistakes, errors, omissions inn the proper reference of the name and terminologies.
• Prosecute Macedonian citizens who disagree with the Agreement.
• Remove and change monuments, public buildings and infrastructures if Greece objects.
• Agree never to use the Sun of Vergina.
• Agree to call Solun – Thessaloniki and use the Greek names of the changed cities.
• Revise any school textbooks and school auxiliary material such as maps,historical atlases, teaching guides that contain any irredentist/revisionist references.

What Greece has to do

• Not to veto/object when and if Macedonia joins NATO and/or EU.

[sydney]

The argument is that joining the EU and NATO by making a shit tonne of concessions to Greece will bring economic prosperity and security to Macedonia. After looking at the summarised list above the halfwits should just join Greece. Greece is now the de facto ruler. My best guess is the majority of citizens wouldn’t object to being the latest regional addition to Greece.

[Risto the Great]

I found a really useful article that attempts to sift through the endless pages of seemingly limitless clauses associated with the Prespa Agreement. It was produced to help people understand the Prespa Agreement better. The basic gist of the obligations on each nation are spelled-out below:

What Macedonia has to do

• Change the name to Republic of North Macedonia to be used everywhere
• Change the license plates of all vehicles from MK to NMK
• For a period of three years continue to change commercial names, trademarks and brand names
• Change all passports.
• Change all personal identification cards.
• Change all driver’s licenses.
• Change and print new money.
• Change all official documents and letterheads.
• Change the names of all official government and government related institutions.
• Change the Constitution of Republic of Macedonia.
• Allow Greece to request changes in the event of mistakes, errors, omissions inn the proper reference of the name and terminologies.
• Prosecute Macedonian citizens who disagree with the Agreement.
• Remove and change monuments, public buildings and infrastructures if Greece objects.
• Agree never to use the Sun of Vergina.
• Agree to call Solun – Thessaloniki and use the Greek names of the changed cities.
• Revise any school textbooks and school auxiliary material such as maps,historical atlases, teaching guides that contain any irredentist/revisionist references.

What Greece has to do

• Not to veto/object when and if Macedonia joins NATO and/or EU.

It missed Article 3, clause 4 whereby it needs to spy on Macedonians anywhere in the world and report their activities to Greece.

[Gocka]

They only thing they are obliged to do, and yet when the time comes they will not even do that much.

What Greece has to do

Not to veto/object when and if Macedonia joins NATO and/or EU.

If you let those bastards fool you, well then you deserved it.

[Phoenix]

...If you let those bastards fool you, well then you deserved it.

If past history is anything to go by, it doesn't bode well for the Macedonians.

The greeks have consistently drawn concessions from the Macedonian side and have never upheld a single promise of their own.

I expect it to be business as usual this time around as well...our side has given up everything for zero net gain, they still would need to jump through numerous hoops to enter NATO, the greeks have merely promised that they won't veto.
By the time Macedonia is close to gaining EU membership a dozen greek governments would've come and gone and I'm sure each one will be demanding another pound of flesh from our 'negotiators'...the Macedonia that we know today will be different looking by the time we get NATO membership (if?)...but how Macedonia looks by the time we get EU membership is anybodies guess, the only certainty will be for membership to eventuate the greeks will demand further changes.

[Vangelovski]

"Expert Committee"

This is what happens when you suffer from limp-dick syndrome.

https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/greek-member-of-the-expert-committee-calls-macedonians-amorphous-mass-made-up-by-tito/?fbclid=IwAR1O3JgSjsGfamNlwKGMX62uN5VmCOcKsO2Q0HSnHSo6nH9x1YErVOq6E9I

Greek member of the expert committee calls Macedonians “amorphous mass”, “made up by Tito”

Under the Prespa agreement, Macedonia was forced to accept the creation of an expert commission which will have the right to go through Macedonian history books and school books to look for evidence of “irredentism” or “historic falsehoods”, and the agreement even provides for the policing of public discourse to look for examples of “incitement of hostility or hatred”.

Now, in an interview with Deutsche Welle, Greek professor Spyridon Sfetas, who is a member of this expert commission, is revealed as a rabid nationalist who believes that “Marshall Tito made up the name Macedonia” and that the Macedonians are an “amorphous mass with a fluid character”.

We do not recognize the existence of a Macedonian nation. The agreement regulates your citizenship and not national background. The Prespa agreement benefits Greece. We are not asked to do anything, Sfetas said in the interview.

In theory, Macedonian historians will have the same right as the Greek committee members to demand changes in Greek history books and Macedonia will be able to ask Greece to take actions in cases of hostile comments by individuals. But, given that the implementation of the agreement depends on Greece withholding its right to veto Macedonia’s EU membership, it’s clear that Greece will have the upper hand. In the similar commission formed a year ago with Bulgaria, Macedonian members have made no demands from the Bulgarian side, while the Bulgarian ones have come up with numerous initiatives for changes to Macedonian school books. The comment from Sfetas also indicates that all obligations under the agreement will fall to the Macedonian side.

The Greek professor announces that the agreement will include changes in the national origin or the “amorphous mass” of population living north of Greece. He insists that the Macedonians are Slavic settlers to the Balkans and that it is ridiculous to think that they identified as Macedonians. According to Sfetas, the name was “made up by Tito, to create a basis to annex the Greek part of Macedonia”.

The Communists were the main proponents of the creation of a Macedonian nation and Macedonia is the result of Serbo-Bulgarian antagonism, he adds.

The nationalist professor says Greek historians will now have to define the character of the people living in Macedonia, the history of the region and the key points of the Macedonian national character. Sfetas is one of the six Greek historians in the committee, who will work with six historians from Macedonia.

[Risto the Great]

This is important. The Greeks really know much more about Macedonians than Macedonians do. We should be grateful for their vast knowledge on these matters of importance.

[Risto the Great]

Sometimes I feel like I'm gonna drown in my sarcasm. Fucken stupid Macedonians. What did they think was gonna happen!?

[Tomche Makedonche]

I don’t think any of that is insulting enough for these traitors. They need to come up with something more insulting for the whole world to be able to laugh at. I’m sure if Bulgaria, Albania and the Greeks all work together they can come up with something truely special to teach the kids.

[vicsinad]

By amorphous mass, he means we're a tumor on their ass caused by...well, you know.

[Carlin]

First breach/unfriendly move by Greece?