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-   -   Macedonia and the European Union (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9152)

JPMKD 06-14-2019 08:36 AM

June, July, September......
As my late mom would say, "Vetter"

JPMKD 06-14-2019 08:38 AM

[QUOTE=Bill77;181038]MACEDONIA
I changed my name
Wiped away our history
Gave away our sovereignty
And all i got was this lousy t shirt

[url=https://imgbb.com/][img]https://i.ibb.co/BgJHdM7/1360301-1.jpg[/img][/url]


I've patent it and i'm going to make lots of money....... :thumbup1:[/QUOTE]

Love it. Those should be big in the UK and a few other EU countries.

Carlin15 06-15-2019 09:12 AM

North Macedonia on track for EU accession talks but not Albania, diplomats say

URL:
[url]http://www.ekathimerini.com/241607/article/ekathimerini/news/north-macedonia-on-track-for-eu-accession-talks-but-not-albania-diplomats-say[/url]

[B]North Macedonia is likely to win European Union support to start membership talks later this year, diplomats say, but its Balkan neighbour Albania faces opposition in France, Germany and the Netherlands.[/B]

Despite EU rhetoric that the bloc needs to accept new members from the Western Balkans to cement their European path and offset Chinese and Russian influence, anti-immigration sentiment has raised doubts in some northern EU states.

Backed by a number of EU governments and the European Commission, Albania and North Macedonia had hoped that the bloc's Europe ministers would give the go-ahead to membership talks at a meeting next Tuesday in Luxembourg.

That would have cleared the way for approval by EU leaders at a summit in Brussels on June 20-21.

But neither country will be given the green light then, diplomats and EU officials told Reuters, even though 13 EU countries including Italy and Poland, the European Council's President Donald Tusk and the Commission have publicly called for formal negotiations to begin.

Now, the latest agreement is to reach a deal among EU governments in September, but only for North Macedonia, which is also set to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation in 2020.

"North Macedonia has a good chance (for EU membership talks), given the historic resolution of its name issue," one senior EU official said, referring to a decades-old dispute with Greece that blocked its path to the EU and the NATO alliance.

The name change from Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to Republic of North Macedonia has given Skopje momentum and is likely to persuade Paris, Berlin and The Hague to back EU talks.

[B]"But Albania is still a big issue for some governments. It is not looking so promising," the official said.[/B]

Perceived as one of Europe's most corrupt countries, according to Transparency International, Albania - which is already a NATO member - has made only limited progress in combating money laundering, EU and US officials say, despite firing corrupt judges and prosectutors.

Four other Western Balkan nations - Bosnia, Kosovo and the two frontrunners Serbia and Montenegro - are also seeking EU membership.

No entry?

In June 2018, France and the Netherlands unexpectedly blocked the start of EU talks for Albania and North Macedonia, seeking more reforms. Diplomats said the move reflected concerns about the impact on voters in EU elections in May, 2019.

With the European Parliament election out of the way, France and the Netherlands were expected to fall into line, while the EU headquarters invited Albania's Prime Minister Edi Rama and North Macedonia's President Stevo Pendarovski to Brussels.

On a visit to Brussels earlier this month, Sokol Dedja, Albania's deputy Europe and foreign minister, said it was time for the bloc to stop using the need for preparatory reforms "as a way of keeping countries out of the European Union."

EU membership talks, which typically last up to a decade, are a de facto reform process to bring nations up to EU levels.

Despite victories in the EU election for the far-right in Italy, Poland and Hungary, talks of future membership for Albania and North Macedonia did not appear to play into the hands of those pledging to stop immigration.

[B]French and Dutch far-right parties lost seats compared to their showing in 2014. However, on June 11, the Dutch parliament passed a motion opposing the opening of talks with Albania, although a similar motion for North Macedonia did not pass.

The German government wants a green light for Macedonia, but there is no agreement on Albania, which the centre-right in the coalition see as a problem state. The Bundestag lower house has agreed to postpone any decision until September.[/B]

[Reuters]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/YCPbuS1.jpg[/img]

Niko777 06-15-2019 12:07 PM

[B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="5"]ZAEV: "Europe needs to remain more sex appeal - sexaple lady in the world to motivate us to continue in this direction."[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

[B][B][COLOR="Red"]VIDEO[/COLOR][/B]: [url]https://youtu.be/H9mcfd4fPr4[/url][/B]

Carlin15 06-15-2019 08:30 PM

[B]Rama asks Pendarovski to remember who had him elected President, after he calls for the “decoupling” of Macedonia from Albania[/B]

URL:
[url]https://english.republika.mk/news/macedonia/tirana-annoyed-as-reuters-announces-macedonia-will-decouple-its-eu-accession-talks/[/url]

15.06.2019

[B]Reuters reports that Macedonia will receive approval to open EU accession talks later this year, while Albania will be left out. This, and a comment from Macedonian President Stevo Pendarovski, sparked a bitter tweet from Albanian Prime Minister Edi Rama. In an interview with Euractiv Pendarovski called for “decoupling” of the EU accession talks of the two countries so that Macedonia can advance without being held back by Albania, but Rama reminded Pendarovski and his SDSM party of the support they received from Albanian voters and from Albania.

President Pendarovski implicitly favours “decoupling from Albania?” Strange to hear this, especially when one considers the key contribution of Albania and Albanians in our friendly neighbour’s state democratic developments and European path. Doesn’t sound right nor practical frankly!, Rama tweeted out.[/B]

During his visit to Brussels, Pendarovski openly called for the “decoupling” of Macedonia from Albania, adding that Albania is “in disarray”.

The biggest problem now is the decoupling with Albania. Albania is now in disarray. The opposition has walked out of institutions and it’s getting tenser. So what can we say here? We have had positive recommendations from the Commission before, and we’ve been decoupled before, Pendarovski told Euractiv.

Pendarovski won the presidential elections in May only owing to the unprecedented, near unanimous turnout in his favor by the ethnic Albanian voters. Pendarovski easily lost the Macedonian vote to the conservative candidate Gordana Siljanovska – Davkova, but made up the difference as village after village in the Albanian majority districts turned out results such as 1.500 – 10 and 2.200 to 30 in his favor.

Both countries are denied opening accession talks in June, but [B]Macedonia is being told that it can expect to open them in September, or October, or some time later this year.[/B]

Now, the latest agreement is to reach a deal among EU governments in September, but only for North Macedonia, which is also set to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation in 2020. “North Macedonia has a good chance (for EU membership talks), given the historic resolution of its name issue,” one senior EU official said, referring to a decades-old dispute with Greece that blocked its path to the EU and the NATO alliance. “But Albania is still a big issue for some governments. It is not looking so promising,” the official said, Reuters reported.

According to the news agency, the opposition encountered from France and the Netherlands to opening accession talks with both Macedonia and Albania was a surprise, and was likely driven by fears of a nationalist surge during the European Parliament elections.

In one of his recent statements, [B]Prime Minister Zoran Zaev warned that politicians in Germany fear that giving accession talks to Macedonia but not to Albania could spark a nationalist reaction in the latter. Zaev said that he is certain “his good friend” Edi Rama won’t resort to nationalism if Albania is denied the right to open accession talks.[/B]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vSla0qj.jpg[/img]

Momce Makedonce 09-30-2019 09:32 PM

Protest in Macedonia last night, only the original flag and no ventilators in sight! Perhaps banning the flag has made people love it that bit more, been seeing lots of it spray painted on walls, basketball courts e.t.c in resistance to the new measures.

[url]https://www.facebook.com/513139259/posts/10157917937504260?sfns=mo[/url]

Liberator of Makedonija 09-30-2019 10:32 PM

[QUOTE=Momce Makedonce;181652]Protest in Macedonia last night, only the original flag and no ventilators in sight! Perhaps banning the flag has made people love it that bit more, been seeing lots of it spray painted on walls, basketball courts e.t.c in resistance to the new measures.

[url]https://www.facebook.com/513139259/posts/10157917937504260?sfns=mo[/url][/QUOTE]

Сончевата револуција :macedonia

Karposh 10-01-2019 08:01 AM

[QUOTE=Momce Makedonce;181652]Protest in Macedonia last night, only the original flag and no ventilators in sight! Perhaps banning the flag has made people love it that bit more, been seeing lots of it spray painted on walls, basketball courts e.t.c in resistance to the new measures.

[url]https://www.facebook.com/513139259/posts/10157917937504260?sfns=mo[/url][/QUOTE]

It's great to see the passion and the right national symbols on display but, if my estimate is correct, those marching were barely 2,000 people. That number needs to be multiplied a hundred fold (at least) to make any kind of impact. I hate to be the guy that puts a negative spin on things but, the fact is, Zaev & Co. will just dismiss this as the actions of a few insane fanatics that want to keep North Macedonia off the path to European integration and, consequently, economic progress. As soon as they mention that, the rest of the Northie turncoats will turn on the few loyal Macedonians who are prepared to raise therir voice for what is right. Actually, I'd be surprised if they haven't turned on them already. I really hope I'm wrong and that the Northie turncoats are in the minority but somehow I don't think that's the case, otherwise many thousands more would have been marching shoulder to shoulder with these true Macedonian patriots.

Momce Makedonce 10-02-2019 12:07 PM

[QUOTE=Karposh;181655]It's great to see the passion and the right national symbols on display but, if my estimate is correct, those marching were barely 2,000 people. That number needs to be multiplied a hundred fold (at least) to make any kind of impact. I hate to be the guy that puts a negative spin on things but, the fact is, Zaev & Co. will just dismiss this as the actions of a few insane fanatics that want to keep North Macedonia off the path to European integration and, consequently, economic progress. As soon as they mention that, the rest of the Northie turncoats will turn on the few loyal Macedonians who are prepared to raise therir voice for what is right. Actually, I'd be surprised if they haven't turned on them already. I really hope I'm wrong and that the Northie turncoats are in the minority but somehow I don't think that's the case, otherwise many thousands more would have been marching shoulder to shoulder with these true Macedonian patriots.[/QUOTE] I would have to agree with you Karposh. Even though I like the fact that this particular protest only had the original Macedonian sun displayed, the number of protesters is nowhere near what it should be.

It really is a sad state of affairs, when I was in Macedonia recently, Macedonians from all over Macedonia in their thousands descended on Prilep to see Ceca perform. People looked at me in utterly confused and shocked faces thinking I was crazy when I told them that not only did I not go to see her perform, but I also don't know a single one of her songs.

Meanwhile we have at most a few thousand true Macedonians standing up for their very identity, good to see that majority of Macedonians have their priorities in the right place!

Gocka 10-02-2019 07:39 PM

I also wouldn't get my hopes up. Probably less than a thousand people and they will all get mocked and ridiculed by most of their friends and family.

The only way any of this changes is if the dream of EU prosperity comes crashing down. Then there will be a brief moment of opportunity to turn people towards nationalism. As long as the EU is on the table and people are convinced that it will solve all their problems, no one is in any hurry to do anything that can be perceived as jeopardizing EU entry.

I just wonder how long the EU can keep stringing them along before people give up on the idea. We are already heading on 20 years. What do you guys figure another 200 or so years?

Risto the Great 10-02-2019 08:44 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;181660]The only way any of this changes is if the dream of EU prosperity comes crashing down. Then there will be a brief moment of opportunity to turn people towards nationalism. As long as the EU is on the table and people are convinced that it will solve all their problems, no one is in any hurry to do anything that can be perceived as jeopardizing EU entry. [/QUOTE]
Because Bulgaria and Greece in the EU are forging ahead and living large now? What on Earth will improve for them in the EU? Maybe they can work elsewhere I guess. But the Macedonian whores are already doing that without the EU. It's a nation of whores, perhaps more energy can be devoted to that!

Carlin15 10-13-2019 12:38 PM

[U][B]Macron Seeks to Slow EU Expansion in Blow to Balkan Aspirations[/B][/U]

October 13, 2019, 8:14 AM EDT

URL:
[url]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-13/macron-seeks-to-slow-eu-expansion-in-blow-to-balkan-aspirations[/url]

- France resists accession talks with Albania, North Macedonia
- EU nations remain split ahead of decision due on Tuesday

[B]Balkan hopes of starting accession negotiations with the European Union hang in the balance, as France insists the bloc is not yet ready to discuss the possibility of accepting new members, documents exchanged between diplomatic missions in Brussels show.[/B]

North Macedonia and Albania are keen for a green light this week to start formal talks to join the world’s largest trading club. While most member states back their request, France and the Netherlands want a complete overhaul of the enlargement process before negotiations with the two countries can begin.

Paris wants any further talks to be “more gradual, more concrete in the benefits they bring to concerned countries and reversible according to the effective, tangible and sustainable implementation of reforms,” a draft communique of a ministerial meeting in Luxembourg showed. The memo was circulated on Oct. 10 by French diplomats to other EU governments.

No date for formal negotiations should be given to Albania and North Macedonia before the EU completes this overhaul of its “methodology,” it said.

Expansion proponents argue that the prospect of EU membership will help further anchor the troubled region to the West, while failure to set a date for the start of formal negotiations risks weakening reformist forces in Albania and North Macedonia.

But western EU officials exasperated by the failure of eastern nations that joined in 2004 and 2007 to uphold the rule of law and fight corruption are wary of admitting new members.

At Loggerheads

Countries including Poland, Hungary and Romania -- among the largest recipients of EU structural funds and agricultural aid -- are at loggerheads with the European Commission over their democratic standards, and the bloc’s executive arm has so far failed to force them to fall in line.

At France’s insistence, the EU said in its June communique on the topic of enlargement that admission of new members should take into account the bloc’s “capacity to integrate” them.

France and the Netherlands aren’t alone in their skepticism. Adding to the complications, [B]countries such as Greece and Bulgaria cite bilateral issues that first need to be resolved[/B], while others seek conditions attached to any positive nod, especially for Albania.

EU ambassadors will make a last-ditch effort to broker a compromise on Monday before ministers meet in Luxembourg on Tuesday, where a decision is due to be taken. EU leaders must sign off when they meet in Brussels on Thursday.

The latest draft of the decision, dated Oct. 11 and seen by Bloomberg, gives a green light for formal accession negotiations to start in the first half of next year, but “no one is happy” with the wording, according to one diplomat familiar with the deliberations.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/EN7k4vf.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/f3B7FOI.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/eyQyD02.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/8QscvlT.jpg[/img]

Niko777 10-13-2019 01:04 PM

Is it a coincidence? The fact that France is the biggest opponent to N. Macedonia's accession into the EU and the fact that Greece has recently spent over 3 Billion Euros purchasing tanks, planes, and vessels from France?

Gocka 10-13-2019 08:49 PM

Failed experiment. Its hard enough keeping a single country unified and functioning with a relatively homogeneous populace. Who really believed that you can take 740 million people, countless religions, cultures, languages, histories, interests, and everything else under the sun, and push them all towards a centralized government and a common identity.

It roughly sounds like the USA, but with some big differences. People leave their homelands to go become Americans. No one wants to leave behind their family and their home, they only do so out of necessity. Because of that people are basically buying into the American system as soon as they enter it, and they are aware of that. The European experiment expects people to change their homelands and their cultures. A very different proposition. When you go to the USA you take with you the parts of your culture that you were fond of but you mostly leave your home behind. In Europe you are basically trying to destroy or at least re-brand everything that was and still is and pretend as if it never was. You are asking people to forget what they have always known, to ignore what is all around them, and just be something totally new. Its just unnatural in my opinion. Besides the USA still has 50 states with very localized governance and yes even cultures. I'm sure if you tried to impose a Californian system on every state, there would be a civil war.

I just don't understand how anyone can seriously believe that the European experiment can ever come to full fruition. Its fake, its forced, it constantly hangs by a thread. What is even harder to understand is how people in the Balkans keep believing that the EU experiment has or will improve their homelands. They had the right idea with trade policies and more lax travel regimes but this idea of making everyone "Europeans", is down right stupid and will never happen.

As far as FYRONMABCEDFHIJK......, I've never seen a group of people follow a carrot for so long and still not realize that its attached to a string. Its painful to watch.

Carlin15 10-15-2019 03:07 PM

[QUOTE=Niko777;181706]Is it a coincidence? The fact that France is the biggest opponent to N. Macedonia's accession into the EU and the fact that Greece has recently spent over 3 Billion Euros purchasing tanks, planes, and vessels from France?[/QUOTE]

Whatever the case might be France has essentially Vetoed Macedonia today.

Do you recall the old song "Od vrv Pirin planina"?

JPMKD 10-15-2019 05:10 PM

I LOVE IT! These hacks in FYROMFROM deserve this.
(Apologies in advance for the rant....)
I find it awesome that they are being cockblocked by those they thought would help. Stupid fools. All those years wasted, honestly, the death blow was the Interim Accord. Once they gave up symbols, and the flag , it was easy to see they would sell their culture and heritage.
And those jokers blame the diaspora??? Hell, we have been utterly embarrassed and shamed by these dumbasses in FYRONFROM.
I recently watched a video of me talking about Macedonia and explaining the situation to people in 1992.....such hope. LOL. I hope they either rebel or call for a new vote or get some leaders with real pride and the interest of our heritage and people.
I hope what I have seem from 1992 to now isn't the future. If it is, lets just say fuck it and do the federation with Albania. I even have a name for it. The Central Balkan Republic (Yes, I know where that's from, but hell, it would fit if they federate...)
So dejected and pissed. And to top it off I am just getting into another of Vic's books (get some, they are good!) and I see the final word from France, etc on here. It's kinda hard to press on. I saw in another thread monuments being defaced....I agree likely the government to help with "friendly relations" Sad to see people in Hong Kong standing up to authority from a superpower but the "Macedonians" can't even stand up to their own backward assed sellout leaders. (Who might actually acquiesce if it seems in their best person interests)OK selfish rant over! Pozdrav!
I'm going to go jam out on my new copy of that classic song: Severne Makidonska Devoiche

Tomche Makedonche 10-15-2019 06:32 PM

France objects to North Macedonia and Albania EU accession talks
 
[url]https://www.ft.com/content/fce9e9a0-ef36-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195[/url]

[QUOTE][B]France objects to North Macedonia and Albania EU accession talks[/B]

Paris wants bloc’s enlargement process be made more demanding and reversible

Michael Peel in Brussels and Valerie Hopkins in Budapest yesterday

The prospect of the EU triggering enlargement talks with North Macedonia and Albania hung by a thread on Tuesday after France mounted fierce opposition to the Balkan countries joining the bloc.

EU foreign and Europe ministers were haggling in Luxembourg in a final effort to win agreement ahead of an EU summit this week where many member states want to launch the accession process for Skopje and Tirana as part of a strategic battle for the western Balkans.

But the French objections have laid bare tensions over the bloc’s stance on a region surrounded by EU countries in which rival powers including China, Russia and Turkey are vying for influence.

Paris argues that Albania and North Macedonia need to implement more reforms before talks can begin. It also says the wider EU accession process needs to be made more demanding and reversible.

“The French are playing with fire,” said one EU diplomat from the majority group that supports launching accession talks with both countries. “This could threaten the stability of the region. It’s a very serious thing.”

EU diplomats said Paris stood alone in its opposition to North Macedonia, which has initiated a series of reforms demanded by the EU, including changing its name to end a decades-old dispute with neighbouring Greece.

“We hope that in the end France will live up to its European leadership aspirations and join the EU consensus on North Macedonia,” said an official from another member state.

North Macedonia, which resolved “impossible” talks over its name last year and “made a democratic U-turn at home”, has been waiting for 14 years to open EU talks, the country’s foreign minister, Nikola Dimitrov, told the Financial Times. Decisions on negotiations were postponed last year and again this summer due to EU disunity.

“What’s at stake is EU enlargement policy and the European perspective for the Balkans itself. The question is if the EU will keep the lighthouse lit,” he said.

The debate over Albania is more nuanced, as countries other than France — including the Netherlands and Denmark — are sceptical because of fears about domestic political instability, organised crime and the stalling of some reforms. Albania undertook a painful judicial vetting procedure in the hope of moving towards EU membership.

Albania’s foreign affairs minister, Gent Cakaj, warned that blocking negotiations would diminish the EU’s role in the entire region and “risks undermining reformist forces in the region”. A negative decision would “embolden third actors who have been waiting in the wings for a long time”, he warned.

A further complication has been a division between countries opposed to “decoupling” the cases of North Macedonia and Albania and others prepared to accept a refusal for Tirana as the price of advancing Skopje’s case — a position diplomats said was attracting increasing support.

France, which has historically been sceptical about EU enlargement in general, argues that the accession process needs to be reviewed before admitting new countries, a tension Mr Cakaj dubbed “a false dilemma”.

Paris is not wrong to question the current state of the enlargement process, but it needs to give Skopje a green light, said Gerald Knaus, executive director of the European Stability Initiative, a Berlin-based think-tank focused on south-eastern Europe and enlargement.

He noted that according to the EU’s own assessment, North Macedonia is more prepared for membership than Serbia, which, along with Montenegro, is considered a “frontrunner” for accession. “The current accession process does not work,” he said.

Mr Knaus proposed a Balkan free trade zone modelled on the pre-accession experience of Austria and Sweden. He argued that Paris should consent to open talks with Skopje and then support the creation of a South-east European Economic Area, which would steer the countries towards the common market — without the promise of membership.

French president Emmanuel Macron’s administration faces the perceived political threat that far-right domestic political rivals could use enlargement to push scare stories about Balkan criminal gangs and an influx of Muslims from Albania.
[/QUOTE]

Tomche Makedonche 10-15-2019 06:34 PM

[url]https://www.rferl.org/a/eu-no-official-accession-talks-albania-north-macedonia/30218294.html[/url]

[QUOTE][B]EU Ministers Fail To Approve Official Accession Talks With Albania, North Macedonia [/B]

European Union ministers have failed to give the go-ahead to begin membership negotiations with Albania and North Macedonia, another blow to the Western Balkan nations' hopes of a speedy accession process.

"It was not a moment of glory for Europe," Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn told reporters in Luxembourg on October 15 following a meeting of European affairs ministers.

Hahn added that an "overwhelming majority" of EU members supported the Commission's recommendation that talks begin but that they could not reach the required unanimous decision.

It was the third time -- following similar outcomes in June 2018 and June 2019 -- that the bloc's ministers failed to reach unanimity.

The issue will now be discussed by EU leaders when they meet in Brussels for an EU summit on October 17-18.

Several sources who asked not to be identified told RFE/RL that France played a key role in blocking the start of official accession talks with the two small nations.

Tytti Tuppurainen, Finland’s minister for European affairs, said after the meeting that "unfortunately, there were a few member states hesitant and one member state particularly against it."

"So, we were not able to reach that required unanimity in order to make the decision,"she added.

France and the Netherlands, in particular, have expressed reluctance to open the door to new members over concerns about corruption and the standards of the rule of law in some applicant nations.

French European Affairs Minister Amelie de Montchalin said that Paris did not want to separate Albania's case from that of North Macedonia, which has broader EU support, as suggested by Finland.

France "is not asking for anything new" and "is not saying no," de Montchalin told reporters after the meeting.

"We are just asking that criteria set back in June 2018 be fully applied," she added, citing reforms that she said Albania and North Macedonia had not yet completely undertaken.

However, other nations have expressed concerns that delays over membership could aid attempts by Russia or China to increase their influence in the region.

Germany's Minister for European Affairs Michael Roth warned that a "possible political vacuum" in the region "will be filled by other powers that certainly have little in common with democracy and the rule of law."[/QUOTE]

Risto the Great 10-15-2019 10:03 PM

Macedonia should have changed its name to "EU".

Carlin15 10-15-2019 10:20 PM

[B][SIZE="3"]Emmerson asks: "Is Spain still committed to a European model of democracy?"[/SIZE][/B]

URL:
[url]https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/emmerson-spain-european-democracy-verdicts_430436_102.html[/url]

Marta Lasalas

Barcelona. Tuesday, 15 October 2019

[B]British human rights lawyer Ben Emmerson has warned that Monday's court decision to give heavy jail sentences to Catalan pro-independence leaders places Spain on a "collision course with the United Nations, the international community and the international rule of law."[/B] [B]"It is a dark day for democracy in Spain," said Emmerson, who is part of the legal team which presented the Catalan political prisoners' case to the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions.[/B] The UN Working Group concluded that the Catalan pro-independence leaders who were part of the case (seven of those now convicted for sedition) were wrongfully held in custody and called for their immediate release, but Spain ignored the UN ruling.

Emmerson warned in a statement that the decision taken by Spain's Supreme Court, "torpedoes the possibility of a peaceful resolution of the political crisis in Catalonia" He said the court had "quite deliberately dropped an incendiary device into a tinder box". For this reason, he considers it vital for all parties to remain calm, and redouble their efforts for a negotiated solution, before the situation "spirals out of control".

The British lawyer says that the debate has now gone well beyond the question of independence: "It’s about whether Spain remains committed to the European model of democracy. This is a truly chilling decision for European democracy as a whole, which will reverberate throughout the continent."

Emmerson added, sharing his declarations on Twitter, that he believes the case has a significance that goes far beyond Europe: [SIZE="3"][B]"If an [COLOR="Red"]EU Member State[/COLOR] can get away with locking up democrats" on this basis, he asked, "what message does this send to oppressive regimes elsewhere in the world?" [/B][/SIZE]

The lawyer also used Twitter to share the comments made by prominent British left-wing activist Owen Jones in response to the Supreme Court verdicts: that a "supposedly democratic European state locking up political dissidents" was "grotesque". Emmerson expressed his relief that "finally" someone close to the main UK political parties had become aware of the broader "democratic" implications of the issue.


[B][SIZE="3"]131 injured, including one eye and one testicle lost: first day of sentence protests in Catalonia[/SIZE][/B]

URL:
[url]https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/injured-eye-testicle-sentence-protests-catalonia_430658_102.html[/url]

Organisations like Novact, Irídia, Iacta, ACDDH and La Fede have set up the platform Som Defensores (We Are Defenders) to defend and protect human rights during the protests in response to the sentences announced yesterday by Spain's Supreme Court against pro-independence leaders.

"The team Som Defensores was activated yesterday after the different protests announced after the sentence in the trial over 1st October [2017, referendum day] was announced first thing in the morning and it will remain on alert for the whole week," they say.

Among its first activities was to monitor those most seriously wounded by the police's response to the protests. According to the platform, they are aware of 29 cases of injuries caused by police during yesterday's protests. Six of the cases were people hit by foam bullets, five were hit with police batons on their heads and 16 injured on other parts of their body. They also confirmed that one person was seriously injured in one of their eyes, and another in a testicle. "The observers are also aware of kettling, limitations of movement and verbal attacks. We also highlight that 11 journalists have been injured."

"It's intolerable that foam bullets have been used again in Catalonia. Despite the Parliament's ban being only legally binding on the Mossos and not the [Spanish] National Police Corps, we understand there's a political agreement which PSC forms part of and which the Spanish government should respect", said lawyer Andrés García Berrio, a member of Irídia acting as spokesperson for Som Defensores. García Berrio will be responsible for giving legal assistance to the victims.

The lawyer also says that they "detected foam projectiles being fired directly at people who weren't doing anything and at people's heads." He adds that in many cases both Mossos and National Police Corps officers used their batons hitting from high to low, contrary to protocol.

The platform also said that "observers have suffered retentions, attacks and been identified by the security forces despite being accredited". On the other hand, they say there were Mossos officers who didn't have their ID numbers on their backs.


Incidents in Barcelona - 90 second video:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUhR_FkkqvY[/url]

Video: Car accelerates at protesters blocking road in Catalonia:
[url]https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/video-car-accelerates-protesters-blocking-road-catalonia_430805_102.html[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/W3M4zc1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/D56fOy7.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/QE5lG7M.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/OMjrScV.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/890xHbL.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/x4bDHbo.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/HzdcvUo.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/DsbGiD8.jpg[/img]

17 minutes of footage of clashes, incidents
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpHwFdWFIhw[/url]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/sqlVOwB.jpg[/img]

JPMKD 10-15-2019 11:09 PM

Good maybe this will wake people u......oh wait, no it won't......
I shoulda know when they bowed and became Fyromainians to not keep any hope up. I already ranted on this in the Germany thread.
But, very typical of EU, and typical on the carrot chasers....and Balkan boneheads. Speaking of which, how about those Bulgarians in the football match? That's just the kind of thing the EU types will look at and think "Why another country from that region?"
Not that The Central Balkan Republic (Yes, the CBRdonians!) has western Euro ideals anymore than the rest of the Balkans....

I think I'll go bother the neighbors with some sad guitar sounds.....(And maybe make that soundcloud account finally)

Carlin15 10-16-2019 09:21 PM

[B]Catalonia ‘separatists’ bad, HK ‘pro-democracy protesters’ good: Orwell’s 1984 becomes user’s manual for Western ‘free media’[/B]

George Galloway

15 Oct, 2019

URL:
[url]https://www.rt.com/op-ed/470992-catalonia-protest-hongkong-media-orwell/[/url]

When supporters of Catalan leaders jailed for organizing a democratic vote advance on Barcelona airport, media make a fuss over ‘separatists’ causing chaos. When the same tactic’s used in Hong Kong, it’s a ‘pro-democracy’ protest.

In George Orwell’s 1984, The War Ministry was renamed the Ministry of Peace. Truth was Lies, Hate was Love. But author Lewis Carroll got there first.

In ‘Through the Looking Glass,’ first published in 1871, Humpty Dumpty tells Alice, and in rather a scornful manner, “When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice “whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – that's all.”

Humpty Dumpty has indeed been put back together again, in our newsrooms and in the mouths of our politicians. As so often happens, it finds its apogee in Syria.

One man’s ‘terrorist’ is, of course, another man’s “freedom-fighter” – but now it’s becoming ridiculous. The so-called ‘Free’ so-called ‘Syrian’ so-called ‘Army’ –the FSA– are now being denounced all over the world for the savagery of their conduct in the Turkish incursions in north-east Syria.

The problem is that the Humpty Dumpties fulminating into their fountain-pens against it are the very same Humpties who told us for years that these were ‘moderate-rebels,’ ‘secular’ soldiers fighting for ‘democracy’ against ‘dictatorship’ in Syria. So much so, we had to give them the guns with which they are now reportedly gunning down Kurdish civilians, and over which we are now oh so appalled…

Those of us who drew attention to the fact that one of the FSA commanders had, in a former role, cut out a prisoner’s heart and eaten it on YouTube, were banned from social media-platforms, branded “Assad-apologists” or “Putin-apologists” or, in my case, both. That the so-called ‘democratic’ opposition was merely an alphabet-soup of Islamist fanatic forces in white-helmets wearing Mrs Clinton’s lipstick was a truth which simply could not be uttered.

This tragic farce is, in fact, ending as it began, when Hillary Humpty Dumpty Clinton's launch of the Coalition for a Democratic Syria literally died on her lips when it was pointed out that many of the countries in the coalition were the unfree-est, most anti-democratic countries on earth!

The name changed but the flow of guns, money, political and propaganda support never did.

Space and ennui precludes my adumbrating the full set of the false-teeth in the Syria story, so let me pay homage to Catalonia.

The democratic government of Spain in the democratic European Union has just handed out a hundred years of prison sentences on democratic Catalan politicians for organising a democratic vote in Catalonia. Worse, a “mob” of their supporters have advanced on...the airport in Barcelona! Commerce, holidays, trade are being WRECKED, wrecked I tell you, by this undemocratic form of protest.

But, when the exact same tactic is used in Hong-Kong, the demonstrators are NOT a mob, they are not wreckers, they are ‘democracy-protesters.’

[B]When the Hong-Kong protesters confront the Chinese police with Molotovs, knives, even guns, it is the policeman stabbed in the neck who is the villain. When the French police literally disarm Yellow-Vest protesters –that is, to blow their hands off– even Humpty Dumpty runs out of words, so a complete media veil of secrecy is thrown over the removal of eyeballs, hands and even lives by the gendarmes.[/B]

[B]George Orwell’s novel 1984 was supposed to be a dystopian work of fiction, a warning of the perversions of truth which would be required to sustain totalitarianism if we were not careful.

In 2019, it has become a User’s Manual, a play-book[/B], and some of the worst hypocrites in the world – otherwise known as the free-media in free-countries – deploy it to the nodding approbation of the political-classes they serve.

As Humpty Dumpty said, “The question is, which is to be master – that’s all.”

Gocka 10-17-2019 06:50 AM

There are obvious double standards. I wouldn't call it an Orwellian conspiracy but simple human bias.

I think it come down to perception. I people look at how stable and affluent the country is and assume that countries like France and Spain or stable democratic and prosperous and therefor anyone who stands up to those establishments must be a trouble maker. They look at China, Syria, and others as undemocratic and unstable places and therefor anyone who stands up to those establishments is obviously just seeking democracy.

Bias due to political orientation is also a factor.

You also have to take into consideration where and who the media gets its information from. Investigative journalism isn't what it used to be. Very few outlets send anyone out into the field to actual investigate. They rely on 2nd and 3rd hand sources. Most of the time the only people on the ground are government affiliated or employed and control the narrative. That is also not to say its some coordinated conspiracy to mislead. If you are a government employee working in an intelligence service, your job is to further the interests of your country, you are going to have a clear bias on any given situation depending on how that situation relates to your national interests.

If anyone is to blame for this its media companies who have basically abandoned journalism for sensationalist talk shows, because talk shows are cheaper to produce and bring in much more viewership. Society is also to blame, because we prefer to watch biased talk shows because actual journalism is sometimes dry. Then we get upset when we discover we have been mislead. We encourage and reward the media for acting in this manner.

Don't watch Rachel Maddow, and Sean Hanity and demand that news outlets go back to actually having boots on the ground.

Carlin15 10-18-2019 10:39 AM

Is Zaev planning to resign as a result of the EU veto??

[url]https://www.magazin.mk/%d0%b7%d0%b0%d0%b5%d0%b2-%d0%b8-%d0%b4%d0%b8%d0%bc%d0%b8%d1%82%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b2-%d1%9c%d0%b5-%d1%81%d0%b8-%d0%bf%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%bd%d0%b5%d1%81%d0%b0%d1%82-octabk%d0%b8-%d0%bf%d0%be%d1%81%d0%bb%d0%b5/[/url]

Carlin15 10-19-2019 07:54 AM

[B]North Macedonia PM Zaev calls for early election, blasts EU[/B]

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Sat., Oct. 19, 2019

SKOPJE, Macedonia - A “disappointed and outraged” North Macedonia Prime Minister Zoran Zaev says he will propose an early election in the face of the European Union’s decision not to start membership talks with his country.

Zaev said at a news conference Saturday that the date for the snap election will be discussed and, hopefully, agreed at a Sunday meeting with the country’s president, his coalition partners and the opposition leader.

“Europe has not delivered what it has promised. A huge injustice has been done to us. ... I am disappointed and outraged,” Zaev told reporters in Skopje.

EU leaders failed to reach a consensus Friday on whether to open membership talks with Albania and North Macedonia, amid stiff opposition to the move from France.

[url]https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/world/europe/2019/10/19/north-macedonia-pm-zaev-calls-for-early-election-blasts-eu.html[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/1PwhXOa.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/qwDj3w9.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/no1i7KG.jpg[/img]

Gocka 10-19-2019 05:09 PM

The naivety of it all is infuriating. All the focus was put on the name and Greece, for 25 years that's all anyone paid attention to. Even Bulgaria didn't get the chance to block Macedonia (I'm certain they would have). Despite the obvious hurdles of Greece and Bulgaria, does anyone really believe Macedonia is anywhere near EU standards anyway. Are these people that delusional that they thought it was purely the name holding them back? If Macedonia was such a shoe in for EU entry, the EU would have put pressure on Greece to back off and allow Macedonia entry.

I've been saying for years that the EU was always using the likes of Bulgaria and Greece as an excuse to not admit Macedonia, I never believed they actually wanted that to happen. I'm convinced they never thought we would be stupid enough to change our name.

Why would the EU want the likes of Macedonia and Albania in the EU? So western Europe can further drive down the value of their local labor markets. Or so they can admit a couple million welfare cases. Or so the Albanian mafia can more easily smuggle drugs, weapons, and organs. Neither country has anything to offer, and they would both require huge amounts of EU funds to bring them anywhere near EU standards. Then there is their shit judicial, and political systems.

Again, how can anyone be so delusional and naive that they could believe that the door was closed for 25 years purely because of a depute over the word North.

We have to be the most short sighted people on the planet.

Carlin15 10-20-2019 03:33 PM

[QUOTE=Gocka;181743]The naivety of it all is infuriating. All the focus was put on the name and Greece, for 25 years that's all anyone paid attention to. Even Bulgaria didn't get the chance to block Macedonia (I'm certain they would have). Despite the obvious hurdles of Greece and Bulgaria, does anyone really believe Macedonia is anywhere near EU standards anyway. Are these people that delusional that they thought it was purely the name holding them back? If Macedonia was such a shoe in for EU entry, the EU would have put pressure on Greece to back off and allow Macedonia entry.

I've been saying for years that the EU was always using the likes of Bulgaria and Greece as an excuse to not admit Macedonia, I never believed they actually wanted that to happen. I'm convinced they never thought we would be stupid enough to change our name.

Why would the EU want the likes of Macedonia and Albania in the EU? So western Europe can further drive down the value of their local labor markets. Or so they can admit a couple million welfare cases. Or so the Albanian mafia can more easily smuggle drugs, weapons, and organs. Neither country has anything to offer, and they would both require huge amounts of EU funds to bring them anywhere near EU standards. Then there is their shit judicial, and political systems.

Again, how can anyone be so delusional and naive that they could believe that the door was closed for 25 years purely because of a depute over the word North.

We have to be the most short sighted people on the planet.[/QUOTE]

I do agree with you - but this is also a blatant case of EU/France "betrayal" as they did not keep their promises to Macedonia. Recall Macron's "timely" address to the Macedonians in the lead up to the referendum vote (or numerous EU politicians paying a visit, also just before the referendum). Whether or not Macedonia has anything to offer, the state of the judicial and political systems - the EU leaders dangled the "carrot" of membership as an incentive for Macedonia to resolve the name dispute.

It looks like there will be elections in April of 2020 (interestingly the Census was to take place next April as well - it will likely be cancelled as a result).

[SIZE="3"][B]North Macedonia to hold snap polls in April[/B][/SIZE]

URL:
[url]https://www.france24.com/en/20191020-north-macedonia-to-hold-snap-polls-in-april[/url]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]North Macedonia's political leaders agreed on Sunday to hold early elections in April, after the EU blocked the start of membership talks.

"We have reached a consensus for the elections to be held on April 12, 2020," Prime Minister Zoran Zaev said after the meeting of main political leaders with President Stevo Pendarovski.[/B][/COLOR]

European Union leaders on Friday failed to agree on opening Skopje's accession negotiations, mostly because of opposition from France.

The issue is now on hold until next spring.

Zaev on Saturday proposed a snap election as the EU decision, which he called a "historic mistake", scrambled what had been the key policy goal of his cabinet.

[COLOR="Red"][B]Zaev will resign on January 3 and a technical government will be appointed, political leaders decided.[/B][/COLOR]

Under the law, the prime minister must resign 100 days ahead of the polls, and a technical government that will include both the ruling coalition and the opposition is to be voted in by the parliament.

However, "the unanimous view of all parties is that Euro-Atlantic integration is our goal... and these aspirations of the country will remain," Zaev told reporters after the meeting.

Friday's move by the EU triggered a wave of anger and disappointment, not just in North Macedonia and Albania -- whose membership bid was also put on hold -- but among EU officials and leaders who had lobbied hard to open the talks.

Zaev and his Social Democrats came to power in 2017, ousting the right-wing party of former strongman Nikola Gruevski, who had dominated the country for a decade.

Since then, his government has poured all of its political capital into putting North Macedonia on a path to NATO and EU membership.

Risto the Great 10-20-2019 05:22 PM

I have no idea why Zaev would want to call the snap elections. I suspect he is already bent over a wok and taking it from a barrage of pandas right now. The EU was not the money scam he hoped it would be so China would be looking very attractive right now.

It is hilarious that it didn't even get to Bulgaria and Greece denying entry to Macedonia (which was and is inevitable).

Zaev resigning is a noble yet curious thing to do and he should have done it years ago. Given the suggestion of nobility, I can only assume he already has what he (criminally) needs and will slip away quietly before the truth comes out.

Northadonia continues to amaze me with the rewards it accumulates for its utter capitulation at every challenge. I am not sure it can go any lower but feel more is yet to come.

And wait until this generation of (Y) Insta Twits and Snaps and Tik Toks start taking the reigns. They will make Zaev look like a grand statesman.

Gocka 10-20-2019 07:17 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;181746]I do agree with you - but this is also a blatant case of EU/France "betrayal" as they did not keep their promises to Macedonia.
[/QUOTE]

It certainly looks like a betrayal, but I would also contend that we don't know for sure what was or wasn't promised before and after the name change. We know of the public facing statements but nothing of the backroom discussions. For all we know this may have been the plan all along.

I for one never believed EU entry was on the cards only because it made no sense for the EU.

Maybe Zaev has already benefited financially whether directly from the likes of Greece or even the EU itself, or indirectly by helping out his own business interests while he had power and access.

Also being that most of the EU talks were held with a handle full of EU officials, I don't see how Zaev could have been promised or felt assured that EU entry was a done deal post name change. Its not like he had gotten assurances form every party in Europe.

In the end I can only classify it all as treachery, or naivety. Either they new exactly what they are doing it and had been personally rewarded for playing along, or they were incredibly naive to think that an organization that forced you to violate your own human rights could be fully trusted to be an honest and moral partner. If the EU had any integrity it would have never encouraged Macedonians to pick between isolation or cultural suicide.

We got exactly what we deserved. We entered into this situation 25 years ago without a shred of dignity and that is exactly where we find ourselves today. No dignity and nothing to show for it.

I just hope Macedonians for once can open their eyes and realize that until you respect yourself, no one else will.

Carlin15 10-26-2019 11:25 PM

[SIZE="3"]France is pushing the E.U. toward strategic disaster[/SIZE]

URL:
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/10/25/france-is-pushing-eu-toward-strategic-disaster/[/url]

By Carl Bildt
Oct. 25, 2019

There is little doubt that Brexit is a strategic disaster for the European Union. But too few seem to understand that the E.U. is heading toward another strategic disaster — this time in the Balkans.

Last week, France intervened to veto the opening of E.U. accession negotiations with North Macedonia, against the repeated recommendation of the European Commission and the will of other member states. In doing so, it might have brought the E.U.’s decade-long strategic approach toward the Balkans crashing down.

Since the end of the Balkan conflicts of the 1990s, an E.U. priority has been to bring long-term stability to this troubled part of the continent. To end wars is one thing, but to build genuine peace requires long-term effort, particularly around peaceful integration.

In 2003, as part of the Thessaloniki summit, E.U. leaders formally committed their countries to opening the E.U. for membership to all the countries in the Western Balkans. Ever since, this has been the lighthouse that has inspired and guided the policies pursued in the region seeking to reform economies and societies, overcome the divisions of the past and prepare for the European future of tomorrow.

It certainly hasn’t been easy, and progress has been slow in a number of areas. But in a region always torn between the forces of disintegration and integration, the balance has clearly shifted from the former to the latter, largely thanks to the European perspective.

That project has been put in jeopardy by France’s decision on North Macedonia. No one was under the impression that membership in the E.U. for North Macedonia was in any way imminent. It was a question of starting a decade-long process of negotiations and reforms inspired by that prospect.

[B][COLOR="Blue"]In fact, the 2018 Prespa Agreement between North Macedonia and Greece that solved the countries’ long-standing name dispute was supposed to be a de facto precondition for starting on the E.U. path. Now the word from Paris is that this will have to wait until there are some unspecified reforms to the E.U. in the years and perhaps decades ahead.[/COLOR][/B]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]That’s bad in itself, but the implications of the decision go much further. The French veto was not just a veto against North Macedonia and Albania, but also against the entire enlargement process in the Western Balkans, effectively sinking the entire policy. This might not have been spelled out explicitly but, implicitly, it was also a veto against Serbia, Montenegro and Bosnia.[/COLOR][/B]

This will inevitably have implications for other outstanding issues in the region. With the opportunity to integrate, Serbia was supposed to choose between its future with Europe and its past with Kosovo, thereby normalizing relations between the two. If Europe closes the door, this becomes immeasurably more difficult. And with all of its tensions, the future of Bosnia would of course be much more stable if the country was embedded in the structures of Europe.

French President Emmanuel Macron speaks in eloquent terms about the responsibilities of Europe and wants to position himself as the figure launching the E.U. on a new trajectory of global relevance. That is all fine and good — and urgently needed — but hardly compatible with shooting down the credibility of the E.U. in Europe itself.

[B][COLOR="blue"]It should be remembered that the last time a more substantial overhaul of the E.U. was attempted, with the so-called Constitutional Treaty, it was brought down by a referendum in France in 2005. No one has since dared to revive those efforts. And whether Paris is sincere about its willingness to open up to new members in the future is open to doubt. Few, I fear, will be ready to count on it.[/COLOR][/B]

France may never have been an enthusiastic supporter of the enlargement of the E.U., but it has generally accepted the process and lived happily with the result. Yet France did what it could to block the prospects of Turkey acceding during its years of promising democratic reforms and European aspirations. Although other factors were certainly at work, this played a role in propelling Turkey in a distinctly different direction. While Turkey in the past was a strategic opportunity for Europe, it has now turned into a strategic danger for the West.

Looking ahead, the risk is that the same might happen in the Balkans. And while its countries will remain economically dependent on the E.U., the inevitable slowing of needed reforms and integration will likely force even more young people from the Balkans to seek their future in the E.U. Those that remain might well be more allured by the dangerous policies of nationalism and nostalgia. Deprived of a future, they might seek a return to the past.

After all, it’s the Balkans. We have seen this happen before.

[I]Carl Bildt is a former prime minister of Sweden and a contributing columnist for The Post.[/I]

Karposh 10-28-2019 09:42 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;181661]Because Bulgaria and Greece in the EU are forging ahead and living large now? What on Earth will improve for them in the EU? [B][U]Maybe they can work elsewhere I guess[/U][/B]. But the Macedonian whores are already doing that without the EU. It's a nation of whores, perhaps more energy can be devoted to that![/QUOTE]

That seems to be the main objective as far as I can see (especially among the young). As a matter of fact, I just learnt (to my horror) that my younger cousin in Bitola just took out a Bulgarian passport. His mum defended the move as the only hope for him to have any kind of future by using his recently acquired Bulgarian passport as a ticket to escape the misery and make a life for himself abroad. I spared her from any self-righteous condemnation coming from my part but my disappointment was, and still is, palpable. As far as I'm concerned, renouncing your Macedonian identity (even if it is for economic gain and you don't really mean it) and swearing allegiance to Bulgaria with a pledge of becoming a loyal Bulgarian is no different than when many Christian Macedonian made the same pledge to renounce their faith and become Muslims about a century and a half ago. There's just no coming back from that...even if it was just a token gesture. You are permanently and dishonourably tainted. Some will argue that the hardships were so difficult that their conversion is completely understandable and even excusable. I'm not one of those people. The fact is, it was easier to become a Muslim than enduring the sufferings of a Christian enslaved by an Islamic overlord. Well, as most Christians know and will readily tell you, to be a Christian is to embrace the suffering. It's about enduring whatever life throws at you and never losing your faith or turning away from it. Unfortunately, the same is true of being Macedonian. It's not easy being Macedonian but that's no excuse for betrayal. I know that may sound easy for me to say from the comforts of my Sydney home but I'm trying very hard to empathise with those people and put myself in their shoes. Would I take that same Bulgarian road if I were in their situation? I honestly don't think I would.

Risto the Great 10-28-2019 03:39 PM

I don't know. Getting a Bulgarian passport or changing your name to North Macedonia seem to be as bad as each other. Perhaps seeking the passport represents an active selling of your soul. But as we know ... Macedonians know what they are .... even after the rest of the world has long forgotten or cared. I honestly do not know if I would have sought a Bulgarian passport if I lived there all my life and knew no better.

Even if I did seek the passport, I would have hoped I was a better Macedonian than the people who have allowed the current level of treachery to thrive unabated.

Carlin15 02-16-2020 10:06 AM

[B]Macron opens door to North Macedonia, Albania EU accession talks[/B]

URL:
[url]https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/politics-news-pmn/macron-opens-door-to-north-macedonia-albania-eu-accession-talks[/url]

French President Emmanuel Macron said on Saturday that if the results of an EU Commission report in March on North Macedonia and Albania were positive, he would back opening negotiations for them to join the bloc.

“We are waiting for the report in March… depending on that if the results are positive and confidence is established then we should be in a position to open the negotiations,” Macron told the Munich Security Conference.

GStojanov 04-27-2020 06:38 AM

A petition to protect Macedonian Language and Minorities in EU
 
I found this well written petition to protest the Bulgarian attacks on the Macedonian language and Macedonian minority in Bulgaria:

[url]https://www.change.org/p/diplomatic-representatives-of-the-european-union-s-member-states-in-the-republic-of-n-macedonia-the-macedonian-language-is-a-reality[/url]

Soldier of Macedon 06-09-2020 06:09 AM

[QUOTE=GStojanov;182792]I found this well written petition to protest the Bulgarian attacks on the Macedonian language and Macedonian minority in Bulgaria:

[url]https://www.change.org/p/diplomatic-representatives-of-the-european-union-s-member-states-in-the-republic-of-n-macedonia-the-macedonian-language-is-a-reality[/url][/QUOTE]
The text of the petition below. I wonder if they ever received a response.
[QUOTE]The Macedonian Language is a Reality

Makedonski intelektualci started this petition to Diplomatic Representatives of the European Union’s Member States in the Republic of N. Macedonia

To the Delegation of the European Union in the Republic of Macedonia
To the Diplomatic Representatives of the European Union’s Member States in the Republic of Macedonia

Honorable Ladies and Gentlemen, Your Excellencies,

We, a group of Macedonian intellectuals, have decided to publicly protest the demands and the ultimatums included in the Declaration of the Parliament of Republic of Bulgaria, which were qualified as “concerning and problematic” even by many Bulgarian intellectuals. The following is what disconcert us the most in this Declaration – and also contradicts the EU’s own standards and norms:

1. The attempt to problematize the Macedonian language, by stating:”… the term ‘Macedonian language’ should not appear anywhere in the EU documents; if unavoidable, the term ‘the official language of the Republic of North Macedonia’ should be used.” Further on, the Declaration states that “…should an absolute necessity of using the term ‘Macedonian language’ in EU documents and decisions arise, an asterisk should point to a footnote specifying that the use of the term is in accordance with the Constitution of the Republic of North Macedonia (…) and elucidating that the lingual form declared as a constitutional language of Republic of North Macedonia is related to the evolution of the Bulgarian language and its dialects by the codification in 1944.”

2. “(…) to renounce the support or demand for recognition of the Macedonian minority in the Republic of Bulgaria”; and

3. “Systematic removal of the qualifier ‘Bulgarian fascist occupier’ from all monuments and memorial plaques”.

Regarding the first item, we underscore the fact that the Macedonian language is a historic reality, an official language of this country, spoken by over three million people - citizens of our country, of the neighboring countries and members of the diaspora throughout the European, American, and the Australian continents. It is absolutely and ultimately humiliating to us, the Macedonians, to conceal with a syntagma (‘official language of the Republic of North Macedonia’), a language that has an abundant written tradition as the Macedonian language does, instead of honoring it with its genuine name. We consider the proposal of an EU Member State, the Republic of Bulgaria, as indecent, offensive, contrary to all international legal standards relevant to this issue and, as most important, contradictory to the European Union’s founding values and law. Our country and our language are not in the process of forming, they both have a long tradition.

The Macedonian language is described as a Slavic language genealogically, and a Balkan language typologically. From this aspect, it is the “most Balkan” one in this lingual union. Due to the historical events and the division of the region of Macedonia into three parts after the Balkan Wars in 1913, the Macedonians only completed the codification and the standardization of their language after the Second World War. The Slavic studies generally accept the Macedonian theory (of Vatroslav Oblak and Vatroslav Jagic) about the basis of the proto-Slavic language, that is the language on which the brothers Cyril and Methodius translated the Greek religious books, in order to facilitate the spread of Christianity among the Slavic people. According to this theory, the first Slavic written literary language is based on the Macedonian dialect from the surroundings of Thessalonica.

Over the centuries, Macedonia is a habitat to a fertile scriptural activity, carried through by two medieval scribing schools which the science recognizes as the Ohrid and the Kratovo-Lesnovo literary schools. The scriptural activities virtually ceased with Macedonia falling under the Ottoman authority, however, the process was never completely abandoned. The scriptures created in the 15th and 16th century (Tikvesh Collection, the Krnin Damaskin[1]) offer evidence and correspond numerous colloquial language traits, used to the end of bringing the texts with religious content closer to the ordinary people. The effort, on its part, also distinguishes these texts from the medieval pattern designed by the culture activists as St. Cyril, St. Methodius, St. Clement and St. Naum as the central figures of our early medieval era. While 19th century Europe witnesses the flourishing of romanticism, rationalism and enlightenment it had also appeared in Macedonia, featured in the works of Kiril Pejcinovic and Joakim Krcovski. The second half of the 19th century, a period of the Renaissance and national awakening, introduced significant literary names, as Konstantin and Dimitar Miladinov, Rajko Zinzifov, Grigor Prlicev, Gjorgjija Pulevski, and others. Our eastern neighbor is seeking to seize the entire 19th century by claiming that all our activists from the time were, in fact, Bulgarians. The truth is that, deprived of statehood and standardized language, common Macedonians exhibited their identity through the church. Since the Ohrid Archiepiscopacy was abolished by the end of the 18th century, the Macedonians opted either for the Bulgarian Exarchate or the Greek Patriarchy.

At the beginning of the 20th century, Of the Macedonian Matters, a very significant booklet by Krste Misirkov was published, explicating the distinctiveness of the Macedonian people and the Macedonian language. Half a century later, Misirkov’s idea of the Macedonian literary language finally materialized: the dialects of the ethnic Central Macedonia, following the line Veles – Prilep – Bitola – Ohrid, were used as a basis for the standardization. Today, the Macedonian language is taught at all levels of the Macedonian educational system, and it is applied in all areas of the contemporary cultural life. The Macedonian language has already developed all functional styles. It is inscribed in the UN subcommittee UNGEGN’s Register of Countries and Languages and the Latin transcription of the Macedonian Cyrillic alphabet was adopted by a resolution at the Third UNGEGN Conference in Athens in 1977. In 1992, at a congress in Rio de Janeiro, the International PEN Center adopted a special resolution by which it recognizes the Macedonian language, literature, culture, and nation. The Macedonian language is represented in the European Linguistic Atlas (ALE), established under UNESCO patronage. The Macedonian dialects are also inscribed in the Pan-Slavic Linguistic Atlas (OLA), which is one of the largest international projects by the Slavic Linguistic Council, under the auspices of the International Committee of Slavists. The project was carried out by the science academies of all Slavic countries – OLA, which represents 13 national academies of science and/or associated institutions. The Macedonian language is also used by the International Standardization Organization (ISO) and on Google, which introduced the language to its translation tool ten years ago. An enormous volume of artistic and scientific literature is written in Macedonian language.
The notions Macedonian and Macedonian language are deeply engraved in the minds of all people living in our country. The erasing of these basic attributes of our identity means erasing the collective memory, embodied in our historical, folkloric, and cultural traditions. Regarding the second item, “… renouncing the support or demand for recognition of the Macedonian minority in the Republic of Bulgaria”: Is there really a need to tell you what does this mean? Do you know of any European state without minorities, including ethnic and linguistic minorities? Doesn’t the Bulgarian request violate basic international and European legal standards regarding citizens’ and human rights to self-identification and self-determination?

We do expect that the EU institutions, as well as EU’s Member States, to react principally to the overt ethnic chauvinism of the Bulgarian Parliament, of course, in the name of the Euro-integration and the good neighborly relations, and by following the best experiences of the Union’s previous enlargements. Let us remind you that with respect to the Euro-integration processes of our own country, the EU constantly reiterates the significance of the minorities and their rights. By way of the Framework Agreement of 2001, we were obliged to implement solutions that exceed the international standards for minorities’ rights by far and large, as opposed to the accession of the Republic of Bulgaria to the EU without any such conditioning on minorities, including the Macedonian one. Bulgaria was tolerated even when the International Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg ruled that the country violates the rights of the Macedonian minority with the case of OMO Ilinden.

Regarding the third item, that is the systematic removal of the qualifier “Bulgarian fascist occupier” from all monuments and memorial plaques, we strongly believe that conditioning the EU membership by falsifying notorious and indisputable historical facts of our common European history from the period of WWII, and replacing it with some politically constructed “common history until 1944” is unprecedented in the entire process of European integration! The illegitimate insistence to accept such false reinterpretation of the historical past and the cultural heritage of the nation, from the medieval era up to date, goes as far as to impose, “replacement of the informative texts and other markings, including the historical and cultural monuments”, also including adjustments of the “official statements and comments” by the political representatives, by all Macedonian state institutions, and by the media financed by the state. This all represents a vulgar abuse of the bilateral agreement, and of the process of the European integration of our country, something that is extremely unacceptable for the 21st century Europe.

There are virtually no European nations that did not experience dark periods in their histories. However, civilized Europe did not erase them, did not falsify them, and did not conceal them; on the contrary, it had recognized them, it had asked for forgiveness, and now they serve as historical lessons. Contrary to the current scandalous agenda, we do expect the Republic of Bulgaria to follow the bright example of the other EU Member States, and to express her historical apology for this hard and tragic period of our common European history. The neighboring Republic of Bulgaria owes an apology to the Macedonians and to the Macedonian Jews for the crimes committed during the Bulgarian occupation of Macedonia in the Second World War.
Considering the afore stated, we ask you to convey our positions and strong protest to Brussels, and to the governments of the Member States that you represent in our country. These are the positions of the majority of Macedonians, home and abroad, and by the citizens of our country from all the other ethnic groups. At this occasion, we also plead, not only to you, but to all the European diplomats in the country, to the politicians in the EU institutions, and in the EU Member States, to strongly condemn such provocations and conditioning by an EU Member State. Bilateral agreements and decrees, absent mutual respect, do not suffice for good neighborly relations and friendship. The EU Member States should support their neighbors on their European path, not pressuring and conditioning them in a manner that is unprecedented in the history of the EU Enlargement, and thoroughly contradicting the EU’ s foundational values and EU law.

Yours Sincerely,

Аcademician Prof. Dr. Katica Kulavkova, Macedonian Academy of Science and Arts (MANU);
Аcademician Prof. Dr. Vitomir Mitevski, MANU;
Аcademician Prof. Dr. Georgi Pop-Atanasov, MANU;
Аcademician Dr. Zuzana Topolinjska, MANU;
Аcademician Dr. Zhivko Popov, MANU;
Prof. Dr. Marjan Markovikj, MANU;
Prof. Dr. Elka Jacheva – Ulchar, Institute for the Macedonian Language “Krste Misirkov” – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Aleksandra Gjurkova, Institute for the Macedonian Language “Krste Misirkov” – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Simona Gruevska – Madzoska, Institute for the Macedonian Language “Krste Misirkov” – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Velika Stojkova Serafimovska, Institute for Folklore “Marko Cepenkov” – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Gordana Siljanovska – Davkova, Faculty of Law “Iustinianus Primus”, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Karolina Ristova – Aasterud, Faculty of Law “Iustinianus Primus”, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Katerina Zdravkova, Faculty of Computer Science and Engineering, UKIM, Skopje;
Aldo Kliman, Writer;
Prof. Dr. Maja Angelovska – Panova, Institute for National History – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Mitko Panov, Institute for National History – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Katerina Todoroska, Institute for National History – Skopje;
Zhivko Grozdanoski, writer
Frosina Parmakovska, writer
Dr. Emil Niami, Russian center, UKIM, Skopje;
Petar Andonovski, Writer;
Ivana Nasteski, M.A., An Art Teacher;
Prof. Darija Andovska, M.A., Composer, Faculty of Music Art, UKIM, Skopje;
Nikola Pijanmanov, An Artist;
Boban Karapejovski, M.A, Faculty of Philology, UKIM, Skopje;
Ljupcho Todorovski – Upa, An Actor;
Prof. Dr. Ganka Cvetanova, Institute for Sociological, Political and Juridical Research, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof.Dr. Marijana Markovikj, Institute for Sociological, Political and Juridical Research, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Eleonora Serafimovska, Institute for Sociological, Political and Juridical Research, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Ilija Velev, Institute for Macedonian Literature – Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Slavica Veleva, Faculty of Philology, UKIM, Skopje;
Prof. Dr. Valentina Mironska, Institute for Macedonian Literature – Skopje;

[1] In Orthodox scriptures, “damaskin” is a specific type of religious text written in colloquial language.[/QUOTE]

Soldier of Macedon 07-02-2020 08:57 PM

[url]https://seenews.com/news/ec-adopts-draft-negotiating-frameworks-for-n-macedonia-albania-704964[/url]
[QUOTE]SKOPJE (North Macedonia), July 2 (SeeNews) - The European Commission (EC) said it has presented to the European Union member states the draft negotiating frameworks for North Macedonia and Albania, thus paving the way to the formal opening of the accession negotiations with each country. The proposals which establish the guidelines and principles for the accession negotiations with the candidate countries were built on a revised enlargement methodology aimed to make the accession process more credible, with a stronger political steer, more dynamic and predictable, the Commission said in a statement on Wednesday. In the next stage, the rotating Presidency of the Council of the EU will present the agreed general EU position in the first inter-governmental conference with each country, marking the formal start of the accession negotiations. In March, EU member states reached a political agreement on opening accession talks with North Macedonia and Albania. The European Council granted the status of EU candidate member state to Albania in 2014 and to North Macedonia in 2005.[/QUOTE]

Carlin15 07-28-2020 09:24 PM

[B]Кој услов треба да го исполни Европа, за да стане Македонија членка на ЕУ?[/B]

URL:
[url]https://www.novamakedonija.com.mk/mislenja/kolumni/%d0%ba%d0%be%d1%98-%d1%83%d1%81%d0%bb%d0%be%d0%b2-%d1%82%d1%80%d0%b5%d0%b1%d0%b0-%d0%b4%d0%b0-%d0%b3%d0%be-%d0%b8%d1%81%d0%bf%d0%be%d0%bb%d0%bd%d0%b8-%d0%b5%d0%b2%d1%80%d0%be%d0%bf%d0%b0-%d0%b7/[/url]

Од Венко Андоновски

28.07.2020

СКИЦИ ЗА ЧОВЕКОТ

Обично се зборува кои услови треба да ги исполни Македонија за да стане членка на ЕУ. Но никој не зборува кои услови треба да ги исполни ЕУ за да стане Македонија нејзина членка. А има барем еден, без кој Европа не ја заслужува Македонија: ЕУ треба да научи да прави мезе. Да ја разбере метафизичката и чувствена содржина на тој изворно ориентален, а потоа и македонизиран ритуал. Без тоа, ЕУ и Македонија никогаш нема да се разберат. Со други зборови, Европа треба да го научи она што пред дваесетина години го научи Дејвид Боуен, симпатичен Британец, кој како од небо да падна на нашиот Филолошки факултет, како лектор по англиски јазик. Остана во сеќавањето како еден од најдобрите лектори на Катедрата за англистика (покрај веќе легендарните Пеги и Греам Рид и Ричард Гофран), но и како човек што, како и споменатите тројца, многу брзо се „помакедончи“ и разви силна љубов кон Македонија и Македонците. Овој тогашен младич, висок, сув како ластегарка и со тен карактеристичен за британската магла и пабовите, научи македонски за неколку месеци. Ја засака македонската жолта, засака една Наташа со која подоцна се ожени, а нѐ засака и нас, професорите на Филолошкиот факултет, како да сме негово семејство. Подоцна разбравме дека избегал од Британија зашто неговиот „медитерански“ темперамент не бил најдобро разбран од најблиските.

Лекторот Дејвид Боуен беше легенда на нашиот факултет. Од многуте анегдоти, ќе искористам само една. Кога учеше македонски, во тие први три-четири месеци, тој, за разлика од многу Македонци, сфати дека секоја јазична грешка скапо чини. Еден ден дојде во факултетското бифе со видливи траги од пет прсти на левиот образ. Седев со професорот Гане Тодоровски кога Дејвид седна и збунет ни раскажа што се случило. Тие денови низ Македонија маршираа странски мисии што се грижеа за мирот. Некои весници тенденциозно пишуваа дека тие војници се непријателски и ги предупредуваа македонските девојчиња да внимаваат, зашто странците нудат пари за да ги спознаат рајските сласти на љубовта, а најверојатно пренесуваат и сексуални болести. Е тоа утро, Дејвид застанал на трафиката кај МАНУ (сега е урната) и ја прашал убавата продавачка, на македонски (со англиски акцент), дали имаат цигари „57“ (му беа омилени). Таа му дала, тој тргнал накај Факултетот, но установил дека нема запалка.

Ама немал веќе ни пари. Затоа се вратил кај девојката и со оној негов секогаш конспиративен поглед, нетипичен за индискретните Македонци, ѝ рекол дека нема запалка. Па ја прашал дали таа има. А таа му плеснала таква шлаканица што образот му се вжарил до увото. Дејвид прашуваше: „Зошто девојката ми удри шлаканица?“ Јас и професорот гледавме во него збунето. И кога професорот го праша Дејвида што точно ѝ рекол, тој рече: „Ѝ реков дека немам никакво воспаление, дека немам пари, и ја прашав дали таа има воспаление, па да ми даде.“ И, кога по урнебесно смеење професорот му рече дека „воспаление“ не е запалка, Дејвид се плесна по челото. Девојката најверојатно помислила дека ја прашува дали е гинеколошки чиста и дека ѝ бара секс, иако нема пари. „Другпат барај кибрит, не запалка“, го посоветува професорот Гане.

Е тој Дејвид, тој македонољуб од Британија го барам секогаш во лицата на европските напудрени ментори што доаѓаат овде да ни солат ум како што ние солиме зелка пред да ја ставиме да се кисели во каца. И не го наоѓам. На нивните лица наоѓам само суета како хемороид пред пукање. Од нивните гримаси се чита дека нѐ сметаат за дивјаци. Имав една таква многу непријатна средба, на која под маската на „незадолжителен интелектуален разговор“ мене и група македонски интелектуалци нѐ пердашеше лично Кристијан Даниелсон, поради нашето македонољубие, кое нему му личело на национализам. А тоа македонољубие не беше ништо поголемо од она на Дејвид Боуен. Мизерија: човек на толку висока европска позиција, а не разликува патриотизам од национализам и шовинизам.

Дејвид брзо го замени вискито со македонска жолта и тогаш се соочи со еден од најважните културни кодови на Македонецот, мезето: симболот на неговата богата сиромаштија. Како од две-три градинарски култури да направиш раскош за сите папили и сетила на устата? Па уште да го ставиш во една колективна чинија од која секој црпе колку што му треба (не повеќе од потребното!), тренирајќи ја највисоката мудрост во животот – воздржаноста. Оти мудроста и не е ништо друго туку да го земеш само најнеопходното – сѐ друго е вишок што оптоварува и расчовечува. По тоа, мезето е спротивно на капитализмот, кој граба повеќе од потребното. И да – не е мезето во чинијата и во продуктите, ниту во нивниот број, ниту во нивната екстравагантност, туку во разговорот меѓу оние Што мезетат. Опуштено, со аргументи, со слушање на другиот. Мезето е највисока школа на демократијата: осет и чувство за другиот.
Никогаш нема да ја заборавам сцената кога Дејвид првпат направи мезе кај него дома. Откако нѐ послужи со македонска жолта, од кујната донесе огромна чинија со големина за мегапица. На неа, на четири страни, како да се тоа страните на светот, имаше ставено по една четвртина варено јајце, по една четвртина краставица и по една мала лажичка рендана свежа зелка.

Повеќе празно одошто полно. Гордо погледна и со некаков свечен поглед рече: „А?!“ Беше јасно дека лекторот ќе мора да оди на поправен испит. Ние, тројцата гости, го зедовме мезето, го зедовме и Дејвид за рака и влеговме во кујната. Потоа сето тоа го туривме во една длабока чинија. Нарендавме уште една цела зелка, исечкавме краставички, дотуривме уште три-четири варени јајца, и сето тоа го измешавме во заедничката чинија. Потоа се вративме и седнавме.
Дејвид брзо сфати дека неговиот прагматизам и западното индивидуалистичко воспитување пресудиле да направи не едно заедничко мезе, туку четири мали закуски. Сфати дека со тоа е промашена колективистичката филозофија на мезето. Брзо се разбравме, зашто ги имаше читано и „Ориенталзимот“ на Едвард Сајд и есејот на Клод Леви Строс за готвачкиот триаголник, па му беше позната тезата дека култното варено пиле послужено во Лондон ја отсликува културолошката штедливост на Британците, наспроти печеното прасе на балканскиот човек, кое е културолошка слика на расипништвото: хранливите материи се губат при печењето, за разлика од варењето. Мезето, пак, е нешто трето: расипништво на сиромаштијата, максимален минимализам, рембоовско растројство на сетилата речиси од ништо. Кога завршивме, Дејвид само рече: „Јасно, јасно“. Од тој ден стана мезе-мајстор.

Затоа, Европејците, пред да ја примат Македонија, ќе мора да се откажат од прагматизмот и од западниот егоизам, кој неоправдано го викаат „индивидуализам“. Далеку се тие од личност. За нив личност е човек што е послушно шрафче под контрола, вградено во огромната бирократска метафизичка машина наречена ЕУ. Не разбираат дека најсилните личности имаат смисла за колектив: за Другиот, различниот, за мезе. Ете, тој услов треба да го исполни ЕУ за да нѐ прими. Затоа, полека. Ќе им треба доста време. Да нѐ разберат и како луѓе и како култура, не само како политичка машина.

П.С.: Само што ја завршив колумнава, ја здогледав новата тетратка на син ми. На корицата е Елвис Присли, со цитат: „Талентот е она што може да ги продаде вашите чувства“. Е тоа е разликата. Кај нас талент е да ги изразиш чувствата, не да ги продадеш.

Soldier of Macedon 07-29-2020 12:31 AM

[quote]Затоа, Европејците, пред да ја примат Македонија, ќе мора да се откажат од прагматизмот и од западниот егоизам, кој неоправдано го викаат „индивидуализам“. Далеку се тие од личност. За нив личност е човек што е послушно шрафче под контрола, вградено во огромната бирократска метафизичка машина наречена ЕУ. Не разбираат дека најсилните личности имаат смисла за колектив: за Другиот, различниот, за мезе. Ете, тој услов треба да го исполни ЕУ за да нѐ прими. Затоа, полека. Ќе им треба доста време. Да нѐ разберат и како луѓе и како култура, не само како политичка машина.[/quote]
Тие не треба од ништо да се откажат. Ниту имаат таква намера. Туку, Македонија, односно предавниците што се на власт, ќе треба да се наведнат пред нивните европски сопственици, и, ако им се бендиса, тогаш можно е да се прима нашата поробена татковина во таков недоверлив сојуз. Иначе, тоа што е пишано е само интересна приказна.....можеби во сон, но вистината е инаква.


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