Macedonia-Serbia Relations

[Bratot]

This is a bulgarian frustrated propagandist who's trying to get some simpaty from us with his posting <- of course typical for the Boogies -> anti-Serbian matherials, which are pretty familiar to all of us, but the jerk is having a mental problem thinking that he has something "serbian" to fight against and than he will finally convince us in our "bulgarian" origin.

[George S.]

Recently I came across this book. It documents some of the things that the Serbs did when they occupied Macedonia.

I don't think that Albanians, Bulgarians, or Greeks have done similar things to Macedonians yet it seems that Macedonia has better political connections with Serbia than any of its other neighbors. Would you say that this is because Macedonia was a part of Yugoslavia until 1991?

When i have travelled extensively to Serbia years ago back in the 1990's i noticed in the Serbian Museums full of Macedonian stuff.They said that it was Serbian.I said the writing & insignia are Cyrillic Macedonian.It's amazing how these finds were taken focibly & just given to Serbian Museums treasures etc & now they say today it's Serbian & not Macedonian.What a joke if you took away the Macedonian artifacts these countries would have nothing.When i spoke to the curator of the museum he said that he beleives there's so much evidence around in the respective muuseuems of BUlgaria,Serbia.& Greece that could be used to prove without a doubt the validity of the Macedonians existence.

[ohridski]

________________________________________
This is a bulgarian frustrated propagandist who's trying to get some simpaty from us with his posting <- of course typical for the Boogies -> anti-Serbian matherials, which are pretty familiar to all of us, but the jerk is having a mental problem thinking that he has something "serbian" to fight against and than he will finally convince us in our "bulgarian" origin.

Unfortunately this seems to be the typical Balkanian response to anyone that has a neutral perspective. Someone is always trying to instigate or propagate some hidden agenda, right? Although, I think Serbs are the most paranoid. After what happened with Kosovo, they seem to think there’s some sort of global conspiracy against them.

When i have travelled extensively to Serbia years ago back in the 1990's i noticed in the Serbian Museums full of Macedonian stuff.They said that it was Serbian.I said the writing & insignia are Cyrillic Macedonian.It's amazing how these finds were taken focibly & just given to Serbian Museums treasures etc & now they say today it's Serbian & not Macedonian.What a joke if you took away the Macedonian artifacts these countries would have nothing.When i spoke to the curator of the museum he said that he beleives there's so much evidence around in the respective muuseuems of BUlgaria,Serbia.& Greece that could be used to prove without a doubt the validity of the Macedonians existence.

Yes from what I know this is mostly the case.

Regardless, I find it interesting that Macedonians and Serbs seem to have the best relationship. I have a lot of friends that are from Balkan countries, most of which are Macedonians, Romanians, Bulgarians, and Serbs. Whenever there are Serbian parties at various night clubs, most of the time they are combined Macedono-Serbian events. Macedono-Bulgarian or Serbo-Bulgarian events are extremely rare. There are, however, several Macedono-Bulgarian churches yet no Macedono-Serbian ones. Would anyone care to possibly clarify this? Is this due to the fact that Macedonia was a part of Yugoslavia?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Unfortunately this seems to be the typical Balkanian response to anyone that has a neutral perspective. Someone is always trying to instigate or propagate some hidden agenda, right?

Who's perspective was neutral, P. Cohen or H. Pozzi?

There are, however, several Macedono-Bulgarian churches yet no Macedono-Serbian ones.

Can you name the several? Where are you from?

[George S.]

Just because you go out with the serbs doesn't mean the serbs share your best interest at hand.I remember how in 1995 i was in Belchista for the fallen soldiers & the Srbs were dancing & making announcements of the brotherhood that existed between Macedonians & Serbians.When i told them that Macedonia was really occupied & they were the oppressors they later admitted it all.So who's trying to fool who.Serbia with siding with Greece is trying to have it both ways.We can't allways count on our neighbours for support due to political reasons.Don't forget some Macedonians like to listen to Serbian Music as well as we are both orthodox christians.Don;t forget sErbia had her own brand of heavy duty propaganda.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Aspects of Serbian culture were bound to spread to others in the former Yugoslavia, and despite their intention, I cannot help but smile when I hear how Serbs also listen to Macedonian songs such as Zajdi, zajdi and Bitola moj roden krai (for example) at some of their gatherings and functions. Most Serbs, at the least the one's I have met, have been normal and quite accepting of Macedonians.

We Macedonians live our lives as Macedonians, everywhere we go in real life, but those Serbs who go around denying our identity like some psychopathic donkeys, just like their racist buddies down south in Greece, are mostly found on the internet. Go figure. 99% of them do not exhibit the same racist behaviour in real life as they do in their little cyber-worlds behind their PC monitors.

[ohridski]

Can you name the several? Where are you from?

Canada. The churches are in Toronto; St. St. Cyril and Methody, St. Trinity, and St. George. They are all named Macedono-Bulgarian churches, and as far as I know, two of them were founded by Aegean Macedonians in the early 1900’s.

Just because you go out with the serbs doesn't mean the serbs share your best interest at hand.I remember how in 1995 i was in Belchista for the fallen soldiers & the Srbs were dancing & making announcements of the brotherhood that existed between Macedonians & Serbians.When i told them that Macedonia was really occupied & they were the oppressors they later admitted it all.So who's trying to fool who.Serbia with siding with Greece is trying to have it both ways.We can't allways count on our neighbours for support due to political reasons.Don't forget some Macedonians like to listen to Serbian Music as well as we are both orthodox christians.Don;t forget sErbia had her own brand of heavy duty propaganda.

I’ve heard some Serbs claiming that Macedonians have a Serbian root from ‘Old Serbia’, and as evidence they provide example of names and surnames, ex. Srbin, Srbinovski.

[George S.]

Regarding serbian roots who knows maybe?On the note of Serbians we are not saying all serbians are bad on the contrary .Some of my best friends are Serbians & we get along fine they listen to Angel Dimov music etc.as far as the churches in Canada presently they are MACEDONIAN nothing to do with Bulgarian.How they became etc it's all history.
What matters is that they are MACEDONIAN.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The churches are in Toronto; St. St. Cyril and Methody, St. Trinity, and St. George.

Thought you said there were several? That is only three, looks more like just a few to me. And the circumstances in which they arose under Bulgarian clergy is obvious, Macedonians were yet to liberate their church. Unfortunately, there was no Turk to create one specifically for us like for the Bulgars, or a Bavarian to do the same as with the Greeks. 19th century nationalism and nation-building was very much tied to the church(es), yet somehow, Macedonian resilience was strong enough, because we still exist today and managed to achieved many of our aims without the support that was/is taken for granted by our neighbours.

I’ve heard some Serbs claiming that Macedonians have a Serbian root from ‘Old Serbia’, and as evidence they provide example of names and surnames, ex. Srbin, Srbinovski.

Lol, here we go again with these measly arguments. Ok, just for fun, and using your beloved and 'trusted' Wikipedia too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitar_Grekov

Dimitar Panayotov Grekov (Bulgarian: Димитър Панайотов Греков) (14 September 1847 – 7 May 1901) was a leading Bulgarian liberal politician who also served as Prime Minister.

Ring the alarm!!!! No wait, it could be a false alarm............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitrios_Voulgaris

Dimitrios Voulgaris (Greek: Δημήτριος Βούλγαρης) (December 20, 1802- January 10, 1878) was a Greek revolutionary fighter during the Greek War of Independence of 1821 who became a politician after independence.

Alarm time yet? Still need a little more fire for the smoke? OK.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgari...my_of_Sciences

As Bulgaria was under Ottoman occupation, Bulgarian émigrés founded the Bulgarian Literary Society on 26 September 1869, in Brăila, the Kingdom of Romania. The first Statutes accepted were:

Board of Trustees

Nikolai Tsenov – President
Vasilaki Mihailidi
Petraki Simov
Kostaki Popovich
Stefan Beron

OK, you can sound the alarm now at your will.....I think Grekov and Voulgaris both have roots from the opposite side, must have switched places at some stage in their lives, meanwile, Vasilaki, Petraki and Kostaki must have walked into the wrong kebab shop at the time, lol......

[ohridski]

Regarding serbian roots who knows maybe?On the note of Serbians we are not saying all serbians are bad on the contrary .Some of my best friends are Serbians & we get along fine they listen to Angel Dimov music etc.as far as the churches in Canada presently they are MACEDONIAN nothing to do with Bulgarian.How they became etc it's all history.
What matters is that they are MACEDONIAN.

So then you think that Macedonians were originally Serbs, like the Montegrins?

But why call them Macedono-Bulgarian, and not just Macedonian?

Thought you said there were several? That is only three, looks more like just a few to me. And the circumstances in which they arose under Bulgarian clergy is obvious, Macedonians were yet to liberate their church. Unfortunately, there was no Turk to create one specifically for us like for the Bulgars, or a Bavarian to do the same as with the Greeks. 19th century nationalism and nation-building was very much tied to the church(es), yet somehow, Macedonian resilience was strong enough, because we still exist today and managed to achieved many of our aims without the support that was/is taken for granted by our neighbours.

Three is quite a bit I’d say, considering there’s only one Bulgarian only church and only two Macedonian only churches. So why would they keep the Macedono-Bulgarian designation today? Why not just re-name them to Macedonian only?

I don’t know what point you are trying to prove with the names you mentioned.. the names Srbin, Srbinovski are direct references to the Serb identity.

It’s funny how everyone here seems to prefer a monolog rather than a dialog type of discussion. But I guess that’s a Balkanian thing, everyone sees their side as the right side and nothing else.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So why would they keep the Macedono-Bulgarian designation today? Why not just re-name them to Macedonian only?

Who keeps it? Macedonians that descend from people that were raised in such a circumstance? Bulgarians? Certainly not people who identify as solely Macedonians. Probably people like you, who are conveniently from both the western and eastern corners of Macedonia that feels the need to learn things that have already been claimed as obvious.

I don’t know what point you are trying to prove with the names you mentioned.. the names Srbin, Srbinovski are direct references to the Serb identity.

So you agree with your Serbian friends? It's ok, that you are not Macedonian is quite obvious, you don't have to harp on about the 'Balkanian' thing every two seconds, it's a poor excuse and cover for a liar. What sort of dialog are you looking for mate, the type where people would agree with your stance? We have all been waiting for you to come here and teach us how to rid ourselves of this supposed 'Balkanianism', much obliged to the 'ethnic Canadian' who struggles with the obvious.

So, Srbinovski is a direct reference to Serb identity, what the hell is Grekov, a reference to Bulgarian identity? What identity do people have who posses names such as Kostaki, Petraki and Vasilaki? It’s funny how you seem to prefer a monolog rather than a dialog...

[ohridski]

I don't think the obvious is as obvious as you think. If that were the case, you wouldn't be getting so defensive about the mere suggestion that Macedonians could have a Serbian root, or that they could have a close connection with Bulgarians.

[makedonin]

I don't think the obvious is as obvious as you think.

The obvious is not obvious, only when it fits your purpose. When it comes to what you call similarity, than it has to be cristal obvious. Other wise it is only blure and not that obvious.

I don't see any difensness. All I see is alergic reaction to the same old manipulative games lead by Bulgarians, Serbs and Greeks.

This game has been going on for so long, so that every Macedonian have developed an alergic reaction to it.

It is only natural.

It is similar to your reaction when you are called Tatar (even though you will now deny it where I mentioned it)

Just to make it easier for you to understand.

[George S.]

I don't think the obvious is as obvious as you think. If that were the case, you wouldn't be getting so defensive about the mere suggestion that Macedonians could have a Serbian root, or that they could have a close connection with Bulgarians.

ohridski you are asking a hypothetical.The persons surname Srbinovski may or may not be related to being anything to do with serbians.For the same reason anyone being called Bulgarovski or Albanovski.Lets say
that the person had serbian roots but he is still Macedonian because of birth etc.I do know people who are called SRBINOVSKI from sydney originally they came from Velusina.Does anyone say to them do you have Serbian roots.I don't know.As far as i'm concerned they look & appear as Macedonians to me.
See you cant distinguish ethnic differences,A macedonian is different to a Serbian.By the way we speak & act,we have a different cultureetc.
We can't say hey we are this identity or that for the sake of it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

If that were the case, you wouldn't be getting so defensive about the mere suggestion that Macedonians could have a Serbian root, or that they could have a close connection with Bulgarians.

Obvious was the word that you used, which I quoted from you. Now it's not obvious anymore?

Your misinterpretation of my stance against lies for being defensive is no suprise, especially when it comes from some veiled jester like yourself. Your absolute denial at the mere suggestion of Bulgars having Greek or Serb roots is telling. Not that it ain't all 'obvious' now anyway...