Hellenic religion

[Philosopher]

In regard to the question of SoM:

I identify first and foremost as a Christian. The flesh profits little; my being a Greek, Macedonian, or Italian, etc, means something but not everything.

Being born one race means little because the flesh profits little; it is the second birth that means everything. Our eternity depends on being a Christian first; our status in the next world of being one nation as opposed to another is nothing.


To quote from Manly P Hall:

"Wise men, the ancients believed, were a separate race, and to be born into this race it was necessary to develop the mind to a state of enlightened intelligence. The old philosophers taught that physical birth is an accident, for men are born into various races and nationalities according to the laws of generation; but there is a second birth which is not an accident...by this second birth, man is born by enlightened intelligence out of nation and out of race into an international nation and international race..."

[Philosopher]

Makedonin,

There are certain rules necessary in interpreting the Bible, old and new testaments.

It does not matter that the apostles used the word "angelos" or "anthropos," because the context of the story relates to heavenly beings.

People like you who don't understand the bible use this logic:

"see, in the verse it says this or uses this word, therefore, it could only mean this or that." The bible is meant to be looked at as a whole; you cannot isolate this passage from another.

I have already proved that both in the Old and New Testaments, "angelos" is used both of men and angels; and that heavenly spirits are called both "men" and "angels."

You choose to ignore this on the ground that the apostles chose to use "angelos" instead of "anthropos."

Tell me: when Matthew, Mark, and Luke refer to John as "I send my 'angelos' before thee, who shall prepare thy way..."does John cease to be an "anthropos," because the writers call him an "angelos?"

Were Matthew, Mark, and Luke confused as to whether John was an anthropos or an angelos? Yet elsewhere, John is called an "anthropos" by the same writers.

Was he both? Or only one?

Was the angel in Matthew and the men in Mark and Luke only men or angels? Or both?

And I might add: Matthew calls this man a "messenger," angel is misleading because it doesn't define what an angel was. He was a messenger of the news of Christ's resurrection; just as the "men" in Mark and Luke were "messengers" of Christ's resurrection. They all were "messengers" of certain news and information: the Resurrection of Christ.


Use your head and think logically.

[makedonin]

In regard to the question of SoM:

I identify first and foremost as a Christian. The flesh profits little; my being a Greek, Macedonian, or Italian, etc, means something but not everything.

Being born one race means little because the flesh profits little; it is the second birth that means everything. Our eternity depends on being a Christian first; our status in the next world of being one nation as opposed to another is nothing.

That is exactly the attitude that made the Macedonian people 500 years a slave of foreign force!

[makedonin]

Tell me: when Matthew, Mark, and Luke refer to John as "I send my 'angelos' before thee, who shall prepare thy way..."does John cease to be an "anthropos," because the writers call him an "angelos?"

About the above angelos thing, I can even agree upon what you say.

Let us say, it is so! I will accept that!

Still, those passages are in no way coherent! The only thing that they agree upon, is the purpose why they were written for, about what they want to perpetuate!

He resurrected! The rest is only if you want to believe or not! But no evidence at all!

There are certain rules necessary in interpreting the Bible, old and new testaments.
.....................

People like you who don't understand the bible use this logic:
......

The bible is meant to be looked at as a whole; you cannot isolate this passage from another.

People like me see that the Bible has no logic! The OT is a set of stories and "prophecies" that are written before about 100-1000 years period before the NT appeared!

The NT is perpetuating that it is fulfillment of those "prophecies"!

The sad thing about that, which you don't want to see, is that even though those NT writters had the "blue print" of those "prophecies", they still made serious errors when claiming they did eyewitness the "fulfillment" of the "prophecies". They took many "prophecies" out of context, they tried to provide genalogies, but failed in the accuracy of them. Many other obvious errors, such as the Messiah should be of Davids seed, and than again his Mother was virgin (the wrong translation) but the Davids seed was his stepfather. To that comes the whole system on what you claim your salvation. One has to believe in such stories, and it is the prerequirement to be saved, and than again, the apostels were saved by knowledge. They "saw" him resurrecting, so they didn't have to believe in that, the should have known, cause they had their empirical evidence! It is unfair, for a just God. If I am to lose my time, I would find many more, I can bet on it!

Than you jump in and try to glue the holes and fix the imperfect testemony of God!

God should be or is omnipotent, should know the past, the present and the future, he has to be perfect!

For such a God, the Bible is totally imperfect, unsatisfactory with all it's basic errors, gaps and all the rest of it.

That is why it needs someone like you to interpret it and make the wild stretch to put it together! But you failed so far!

[Serdarot]

Sakaj Go Blizniot Svoj!

Ne Sudi!

ako ste falsh Risjani, pak ve sakam, zato ne vi se lutam sho vo zelba da pokazete Ljubov kon Boga i Blizniot Svoj, se koristite so navredi

vaka , Brakja (i Sestri):

- Isus Risto(s) ziveel pred povekje od 381 godini od odrzuvanjeto na Vtoriot Vselenski Sobir vo Nikea
- Makedoncite go primile Risjanstvoto PRVI vo Evropa
- Rimjanite, Bugarite* i drugi gi progonuvale Risjanite, gi machele i ubivale
- Risjanstvoto koe se praktikuvalo na Crkvite koi bile rakovodeni od Makedonski i Egipetski Episkopi, se narekuvalo Makedonjanstvo.
- Vo Makedonjanstvoto, Isus e Sin Bozji, Sozdaden od Bog, i kako shto pisuva vo Vi-Vlia-ta, e od samiot pocetokot, uste pred Gospod da gi sozdade Angelite, Zemjata, Neboto, Covekot i ostatokot od Vselena-ta.
- Ne e Bog, zatoa shto ima SAMO EDEN BOG, negoviot i nashiot Sozdatel, Bogot Otec
- na spomnatiot Vtori Vselenski Sobir vo Nikea, 66 Episkopi, od koi povekjeto Makedonci, "drzekji" se do Makedonjanstvoto, go napustaat Soborot (66 Episkopi na 66 Crkvi, znaete kolkava brojka e toa???)
- ostanatite na Soborot, predstavnici na onie Crkvi / Teritorii / Narodi, koi do togas gi PROGONUVALE Risjanite, odlucuvaat kako ke izgleda Risjanstvoto ponatamu
- nekoe vreme podocna Makedonjanstvoto e proglaseno za Eres
- nekoe vreme podocna "slucajno" se pojavuvaat Bogomilite vo Makedonija, koi imaat ama skoro 100 % isto tolkuvanje na Risjanstvoto, i se progonuvani, macheni, ubivani od Vatikan i negovite slugi, koi demek se Risjani, a ubivaat drugi Risjani, "in the Name of God"...



problemot e sho epten malku znajme za Makedon(ia) , Makedonite, Makedonjanstvo, Makedonizam itn

* - to ko posle nekogash doshe, tie se posebna prikazna... vulgaroi

[makedonin]

Serdarot, wen nennst du einen falschen Christen?

Mich?

[Serdarot]

falsh risjani, ne falche Christen

pravi Christen, se drzat do Vatikanskata demagogija

p.s.

und ganz entspant, kein grund fuer solche reaktion

[makedonin]

und ganz entspant, kein grund fuer solche reaktion

Ich habe nur gefragt, wen du als falschen bezeichnest, dass ist alles! Ich möchte wissen, wo ich stehe!

[Serdarot]

du stehst da wo du dich hinstelst

but also the "falsh risjani" is not ment to insult someone

"Risjani" does not exist almost, we kind a forgot "Slovoto Bozje, i sho e Pravo"

So much corruption, hate, argues about some pathetic things... So much slave mentality...

[Vangelovski]

Serdarot,

In case you have not noticed, the New Testament was completed, with literally thousands of copies of made, nearly 200 years earlier than the Council of Nicea. It was not possible for them to add/delete anything from the Bible (as you claim) without us knowing about it.

Regardless of what the Council of Nicea agreed to, the Bible we have today is the Bible that was written 200 years prior to the Council, we know this because these thousands of copies are available to us and it is this Bible that clearly shows us that Jesus is God.

The Arianism you subscribe to (that Jesus is not God) was invented by Arius in around 320 AD - approximately 230 years after the New Testament was completed. The documents to show this are also available to us.

But that does not stop a good conspiracy theory and, frankly, a charlatan from attempting to defend the indefensable.

The most humuours aspect to this is, that you had to resort to some text written in a bastardised language to defend what is supposedly the core of the Macedonian soul.

[Serdarot]

66 Episkopes, 66 Churches, almost all Macedonians, and to remind, the Macedonians are those who received the Christianity FIRST in Europe.

sorry on my charlatan bastardized english, which part is not clear to you?


edit:

i´ll try also this way, what is "theory" in the fact from the text in the picture above?

koj del ti smeta? Makedonjanstvo? ili toa sho tie koi PRVI go primile Slovoto Bozje, neposredno posle Smrtta na Isus, ne se soglasuvale so tie koi podocna, od interes, a ne od Vera i Ljubov kon Bog go primile Hristijanstvoto?

any logic left?

[Atanasovski]

As for the children of this world, I love all children and despise human suffering. I dont watch news, and I cry when I hear or see unspeakable actions inflicted upon the young. I have 3 sons, all of their friends for some reason call me mum. I love them all, they are sacred souls that deserve love and nurturing, for they are the future of this effed up world we live in. Meaningless, yes. Wjat is the meaning of life Atansovski? Because that is what it comes to batko. It is not for us to say what is Gods will = that is predetermined, and its not the souls that God chooses for his garden albeit very young, I lost a little girl and it broke me, but he sent my angel to me, to teach ME something about myself. everything happens for a reason, if you know what the meaning of life is, then can you please enlighten me?
I am 44 years old. I think the meaning of my existence was to give birth to my wonderful children, so that they may give good out to the universe, to this world , and have tried to instil values and morals in them, and not to have judgement toward others.
My eldest is halfway through a science degree. Biomedical nanotechnology. He calls himself an atheist now, I remember thinking I knew it all when I was 20 too. We have some healthy and sometimes heated debates - he says its evolution, I say it has to be both, some say its one or the other, and we all argue!

Why are we arguing? If we cannot live our lives as decent law abiding moral human beings with love and compassion and forgiveness and no judgement (God is the only one to say we are right or wrong) then please, perhaps you could tell me what is the meaning of my existence batko?

Julie im really enjoying our chat, im looking into some OBE stuff again which I find really interesting.

I think the ultimate meaning in life is found in a relationship with our creator. I believe we are all created with a God shaped hole in our hearts. We try to fill it with knowledge and wisdom. We try to fill it with our own dreams and aspirations. We try to fill it with family and career. We try to fill it with ourselves and we try to dress our souls with an identity. We try to fill it with pleasure. We can try to fill it by creating our own meaning, spirituality and beliefs, but in the absence of a god who crafted us for a purpose, they are just illusory. Family, health and happiness are all good things, and God wants you to be a great mum, these things will bring you such great joy, but these things alone do not provide ultimate meaning.

I think I have shown by example that philosophies like karma and reincarnation themselves don’t give us any real hope of meaning.

Again, it is the relationship with our creator that gives meaning; after all what good is a God that isn’t interested in us. So I want to address the idea that judgement and hell are man made doctrines that instil fear and a loving God would have none of it. I submit that a philosophy in which God doesn’t judge and an afterlife which doesn’t include both heaven and hell is inadequate and here’s why - If God will not judge us, and if hell is not a real possibility, there is ultimately no justice, it simply doesn’t matter if you live the life of a serial-child-rapist or a missionary, ultimately it will make no difference. On your view all souls will go through a purification process that lasts as little as 40 days. It is as if God couldn’t care less how you live your life, he is not bothered, he is not offended, he is not interested. This life loses its meaning again.

I’m not going to argue that life should have meaning. But I am saying, given the predicament, I would be happy knowing that God is exactly as found in the bible – A personal and merciful creator full of love, but at the same time a Holy and Just Judge full of wrath.

P.S. I'm not trying to force you to think like me. Just giving you my understanding.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Julie, Makedonche, Makedonin, Serdarot and Philosoper, thanks for the upfront and honest answers.

But, why does there have to be a choice between your ethnic and religious identity, and who and why is imposing this choice?

I said 'if' and you ask 'why' - why? It was a hypothetical question, and I even gave an example. Not sure why you even bothered responding other than trying to turn a simple matter into something complex.

......one lives and one dies? The Greek man is a genuine Christian and the Macedonian man is a muslim and a total jackass. Easy - I would choose the Macedonian. Heres why: He is a Muslim and I am a Christian. If Christianity is true, he dies he goes to hell for eternity.

Interesting response. I am still trying to work out if it is in jest.

I don't see a contradiction between being a Macedonian and a Christian. I cannot see how one can separate the two.

One obvious example of where they can be separated is the Macedonian Muslims or 'Torbeshi'. I don't consider them any 'less' Macedonian, they aren't the 'norm', but they are an 'exception' I am prepared to accept. Vangelovski, I asked a simple question, I can cite several hypothetical scenarios, is it context you seek? Here is one more example and that will be it, because I refuse to believe you guys are unable to understand what is being asked.
-------------------------

You are living in Macedonia and the Balkans breaks out into war. One group of Macedonians, all of them Christians, are calling for you to join their cause because they've formed some apparent alliances with Serbs, Bulgars and Greeks, with the aim of establishing a Christian state that would include all of the Balkans. The other group of Macedonians, mostly Christian but with some Muslims in their company, urge you to join their cause in the spirit of Macedonian solidarity, with the aim of (re)establishing a truly Macedonian state for Macedonians (This doesn't mean Christianity will lose its significance or place in Macedonian culture).

What would appeal to you more?

(If you can't or won't answer definitively, I don't see much point in responding)

[Serdarot]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians#The_Great_Persecution

The persecutions culminated with Diocletian and Galerius at the end of the third and beginning of the fourth century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in A.D. 325.

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the relationship of Jesus to God the Father

enjoy calculating who knew more about Isus and Christianity...

first calculate the culmination of persecutions in the beggining of the 4th century and 325 AD...

[julie]

Atanasovksi, when we are born, we are born without sin. The baby is already a soul before it is even born. It is a living being, with heart, the physical object. When you mention it is our heart we fill, that is the form the soul has already taken. The soul has no physical aspect, it is already within us. We are perfect, without sin. We have no judgement and are at the beginning, as we are at the end.
As human beings we should never judge, not inflict anything of ourselves onto another soul. God
Is the only almighty being that has the right to judge us. We have no right to judge,
Bra tot touched on something that I also interpret the same way. We live by the rules of the society that we are born into. We live those values by the laws of that aspect of society. Sociology is very complex science.
I will only speak of my experience, Id not know what hell is. Perhaps I was worthy of being in what dimension I was in as being heaven, These abhorrent souls that do not live by the laws that society tells us we must follow, perhaps they go to another dimension, thankfully I was not there so I cannot answer , don’t have the answer, I did not experience hell. Perhaps god judged me as being worthy of going to heaven, and having my soul purified so I may be reincarnated, or stay, I don’t know how many lives I have lived. Perhaps hell is somewhere they are not reincarnated, I cant answer that one because I was not there, and I will only tell you what I felt, in a very clairsentient manner
You grapple with the concept of reincarnation, and that is a very big area. That is just my personal belief that we are sent back and reborn, we are given a contract with God that we must fulfil, the contract being the meaning of life. Here is an example, So we come back and choose the parents we have. I don’t know how old you are, age has nothing to do with this, but if you reflect for a moment on some of the experiences you have had in your life you may see a pattern emerge. It is to learn from the mistakes so we don’t make the same ones . if you see this pattern , you will also see that the partners we choose in life, are similar to one of our parents, and a lot of the times they have the same characteristics as one of the parents. Have a look at the book Psychology Today by dworetzky.its amazing how psychology and Buddhism have similar philosophies on human behaviour.
We come back so we can learn from our previous mistakes or sins and be a better person. Every soul we come into contact with, we have an impact on in some way. The horrid ones you keep mentioning will be judged by the Almighty and perhaps they ill go to hell. Unfortunately we cannot shield ourselves from these sinners . Those murderers etc have free will, and what they are doing is taking the free will away from other souls.
Namaste Atanasovski, the higher sacred divine soul within me sees and accepts and acknowledges the higher sacred divine soul within you. That is Hindu, there is no right or wrong religion or belief, we all have the right and we are all equals in life. Fundamentalism does not have the right to impose on other souls. Its choice and free will
I had severe morning sickness with my first child. I could not keep water down . I tried hypnosis. Funny thing came out of it all – I cant be hypnotised!! I am a free spirit