Political Scandals and Judiciary Corruption in Macedonia

[DraganOfStip]

How often do you see foreign Ambassador(s) financially helping an opposition leader to oust democratically elected Government...

Quite often really (off the record,of course).
The United States have done many similar things throughout the world to place men of trust in power,high percentage of which turned into dictators.
Noriega,Pinochet,Bautista,Banzer to name a few,also supported others such as Franco and Salazar.
if Grujo doesn't suit them here,then maybe they're training Zaev to be their next puppet.

[Nikolaj]

Documents show British Ambassador directly involved in Macedonia coup scandal

The UK Ambassador to Macedonia, Charles Garrett is directly involved in the Macedonian coup scandal, MoI documents show.
SDSM leader Zoran Zaev mentiones the British Ambassador by his initials (C.G) in numerous conversation with ex counter intelligence boss Zoran Verushevski who is currently detained.
What makes it even more perplexing is the fact that Charles Garrett in a recent interview for Dnevnik stated his support for Zaev, even offering 'advice' to the Government to start negotiations and admit the man who has broke virtually every treason law in the country.

MINA's source in Skopje stated the Brits are not alone in this rather there are other Governments involved, which explains why Zaev has still not being detained. "EU and NATO intelligence services consider Macedonia to be their own country, walk around freely and wiretap virtually anyone they wish 24/7 as showcased by Zaev.

The Macedonian Government knows very well the US and UK are behind Zaev. We see who the targets were. Zaev through his handlers first tried to destroy the country from the inside, and when that didn't work tried to destroy Macedonia's good relationship with China and Israel. Both Gruevski and Ivanov have zero power to do anything, it's quite embarrassing" says our source adding "every single Macedonian citizen knows who Zaev's handlers are".

23 years later, Macedonia has yet to be governed by individuals that would take care of our national interests. Macedonia, unfortunately doesn't have a Milos Zeman who would have kicked out the British Ambassador to the curb the first second his name came up on Zaev's confiscated documents. How often do you see foreign Ambassador(s) financially helping an opposition leader to oust democratically elected Government, even offering him safe passage to their respective countries if he gets caught?!?
Unfortunately, Macedonia doesn't have Zeman-like leader, as a result Garrett and his puppet Zaev will continue to go about their business unimpeded. //Gorazd Velkovski

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/27241/45/

[ramo]

This is one of the main propagandists of the government he is reporter, has a show on one of the national brainwashing tv stations and very often highest government representatives are his guests. He is cursing everyone that is not supporting this government and publicly asks for burial of all non supporters. He is pretending to be super patriot and asks jail for everyone that he himself pronounces traitor. This is his interview on one australian macedonian radio station i think from 2011 (from the video upload date) about the name change. I am off-topic by i just want to show how propaganda tv in macedonia works and how they manipulate the bugging scandal and choose who is patriot and who is traitor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W16nB1vHja8

[Nikolaj]

I can't find the other thread but it looks like the pipeline is official.

A pentalateral ministerial meeting initiated by the Hungarian Foreign Ministry was held in Budapest, on the issue of the future energy supply of the Central and South-East European region. The Foreign Affairs Ministers of Serbia, Greece and Macedonia and the Minister for EU Affairs of Turkey were welcomed by Hungarian PM Viktor Orbán on Tuesday morning in the Parliament. After the ministerial talks the sides have signed a joint declaration on strengthening the energy cooperation in the region. The representatives of the participating states – Volkan Bozkır, Ivica Dačić, Nikos Kotzias, Nikola Poposki and Péter Szijjártó – have agreed that cooperation in ensuring energy supply security contributes to the good neighbourly relations between their countries and to the welfare of the citizens.

http://hungarytoday.hu/cikk/hungary-greece-macedonia-serbia-turkey-sign-declaration-energy-cooperation-64029

[DraganOfStip]

Audio file of tapped phone calls from today's press conference held in Bitola,along with the transcripts:

http://fokus.mk/audio-site-snimki-od-bitolskata-bomba-na-sdsm

[George S.]

What do we have as an alternative to gruevski is it any better??
ddsm is not any better.Only an alternative party withtraditional views would be helpfull.
What fo m e mbers feel?

[Vangelovski]

Couldn't find a webpage containing the audio or transcripts from the conversations,so this is taken from SDSM's Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9dyPs00-t8

Thanks Dragan.

[DraganOfStip]

The names i recognize in this list, all vmro members voted YES and all sdsm voted NO. This does not mean that sdsm didn't do this only for personal political gain,

Exactly,they knew that whether they vote "yea" or "nay" wouldn't make any difference because the ruling coalition had more than enough votes to pass the law without SDSM's votes,so they just wanted to add some political points from the people.
A trick used by many oposition parties everywhere.

but means that vmro are obedient people that listen to their leader anyway no matter how bad decision he makes

DPMNE's membership and support has grown rapidly since their coming to power in 2006,mostly due to state company employments of party members and subsequently family members of those members voting for them as act of gratitude and/or in order for the person in question to keep that job.So,most of the post 2006 members are members that vote and support DPMNE because of that and ONLY that.
I bet more than 50% of DPMNE members have never read the party statute or program,and when they go to party meetings they play Candy Crush on their smartphones in order to pass their time.They simply rally on party meetings in the campaign throughout the republic waving the party flag,wearing party shirts ,booing when SDSM is mentioned and cheering when Grujo mentions his "deeds" for their country because they have to,not because they want to.
I personally know a married couple that joined Dzingo's Socialist party (the "sunflower on-duty" throughout the transition period,always in coalition with any ruling party in every government so far) a while ago and now they both have a state job - the guy works in the local prison and his wife was recently employed as a full-time nurse in the hospital.
They're both very opened that they have no clue what the party program is,just appearing on party meetings to get their names checked (proving they attended the meeting) and only joined the party because of employment.
But they also have to bring their immediate family members out to vote and so the party has additional votes and this is the apparatus that keeps DPMNE in power all this time.

I personally think that if gruevski says there will be name change, 70 percent of everyday supporters will be obedient and 95 percent of vmro parliament members as well).

Here I disagree.
Doing that would be a political suicide and I don't think Macedonian people will fall so low to obey such a thing.
They have turned a blind eye to too many of Gruevski's wrongdoings and I think that would be the last drop.

[ramo]

Ramo, can you please provide a link?

DraganOfStip provided the audio recording.

I would like to comment on this matter. In 2002 a law was passed that gave amnesty to the people involved in war conflict in Macedonia in 2001. Most of the people in Macedonia were against, but the politician agreed to this so the UCK terrorists can lay down their arms. This was voted by the macedonian and albanian political parties. But there were 4 cases in which 12 macedonians were kidnapped, torchured and some killed brutally by the albanian terrorists (including timed bomb tied to one man body). Hague international court gave these cases to the Macedonian courts.

Later another law was voted, (Authentic interpreting of the "Law for amnesty of UCK fighters") which closed these cases which involved crimes against humanity. We hear that gruevski is the main promoter of this amnesty of the people involved in crimes against humanity so he can rule in peace later and have personal gain (So far we knew that he signed this which did not made him any less traitor).

One thing is important in case like this. The brainwashing pro government media brutally manipulated this fact. They published listings of people in the parliament that vote for the law in 2002 which did not gave amnesty to these people and not the listing of the law voted in 2011 in which all vmro parliament members together with the ethnic albanian members of parliament voted this law. These brainwashing media did not even attempt to hide the fact that the so called patriotic party vmro voted this law from 2011 but manipulated that sdsm members also voted this law, which they (media) knew that it is absolutely 100 % false. So now (combined with the fact that still no audio recordings are released on these shit propaganda media) we have a situation when many Macedonian citizen still have no idea what was going on and they heard only sdsm in negative context on TV, vmro was not even mentioned. From what was published, this is the list of people that gave amnesty to these people who commited crimes against humanity on macedonians.

http://libertas.mk/%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5-ja-%D0%BB%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B8-%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%B0-%D0%B7/

The names i recognize in this list, all vmro members voted YES and all sdsm voted NO. This does not mean that sdsm didn't do this only for personal political gain, but means that vmro are obedient people that listen to their leader anyway no matter how bad decision he makes. I personally think that if gruevski says there will be name change, 70 percent of everyday supporters will be obedient and 95 percent of vmro parliament members as well).

[DraganOfStip]

Couldn't find a webpage containing the audio or transcripts from the conversations,so this is taken from SDSM's Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9dyPs00-t8

[George S.]

I have confirmed with the macedonian ziteli that they have lost faith in gruevski.THey confirm rxactly what tom is saying.Gruevski is a liar and is continually selling out on macedonia.It is losing ground by capitulations and proctastinations to yhe likes of the uck.No wonder he is also negotiating our name with our enemies.

[Vangelovski]

Latest conversations.

Gruevsku made a deal with ali ahmeti for dismissal of the 4 cases where albanian terrorists are convinced about crimes against humanity against macedonian citizens. He pushes the parliament members to vote for the law which protected UCK members from court prosecution, altough some of them did not wanted to. But publicly he pretends that the parliament voted the law and he as prime minister must sign it. sdsm voted against this law.

In 2011 Gruevski is asked in the parliament
"Why did you gave amnesty to the terrorists" on which gruevski replied

"Како и да е, ќе одговорам на првото прашање на кое веќе дадов одговор во деновите кога се формираше Владата. Тука бев во парламентот, од оваа позиција го дадов одговорот на денот на изборот на Влада, кога кажав дека, ќе парафразирам, јас искрено жалам за случувањата што се имаат случено во 2001 година и сочувствувам со семејствата на киднапираните, загинатите и итн., од тој конфликт и дека како човек навистина тешко го примам сето тоа, но како премиер јас морам да се согласам со одлуката на Парламентот која беше заради цели кои парламентот ги образложил."

which clearly shows that he is a big liar and manipulator. It is unclear to me why the people in diaspora still believe him when he is telling nothing but lies in order to get personal gain. He is no patriot at all. He also put minister from UCK as head of ministry of defense.

Ramo, can you please provide a link?

[ramo]

Latest conversations.

Gruevsku made a deal with ali ahmeti for dismissal of the 4 cases where albanian terrorists are convinced about crimes against humanity against macedonian citizens. He pushes the parliament members to vote for the law which protected UCK members from court prosecution, altough some of them did not wanted to. But publicly he pretends that the parliament voted the law and he as prime minister must sign it. sdsm voted against this law.

In 2011 Gruevski is asked in the parliament
"Why did you gave amnesty to the terrorists" on which gruevski replied

"Како и да е, ќе одговорам на првото прашање на кое веќе дадов одговор во деновите кога се формираше Владата. Тука бев во парламентот, од оваа позиција го дадов одговорот на денот на изборот на Влада, кога кажав дека, ќе парафразирам, јас искрено жалам за случувањата што се имаат случено во 2001 година и сочувствувам со семејствата на киднапираните, загинатите и итн., од тој конфликт и дека како човек навистина тешко го примам сето тоа, но како премиер јас морам да се согласам со одлуката на Парламентот која беше заради цели кои парламентот ги образложил."

which clearly shows that he is a big liar and manipulator. It is unclear to me why the people in diaspora still believe him when he is telling nothing but lies in order to get personal gain. He is no patriot at all. He also put minister from UCK as head of ministry of defense.

[George S.]

They got a vested interest they want power at any cost.;

[George S.]

They have a vested interest to destabilize macedonia and bring f own the ruling party.by hook or crook.