Macedonian Presidential Elections - 2019

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13675

    #16
    Another potential DPNE contender may be Gordana Siljanovska. Don't know much about her, but I've noticed Igor Aleksandrov and some others suggesting that she should be the DPNE candidate.


    Професорката Гордана Силјановска кандидат за претседател на Македонија

    28. ЈАНУАРИ 2019

    Триесетина професори упатија јавен повик барајќи јавноста да застане зад кандидатурата на универзитетската професорка Гордана Силјановска Давкова за претседателка на Република Македонија. Според нив, потребно е да се наметне обединување зад личност кој се издигнува над ситните меѓупартиски и меѓуетнички ривалитети. Таква надпартиска личност, сметаат професорите, е професорката на Правниот факултет во Скопје. Гордана Силјановска-Давкова. Во продолжение интегрално Ви го пренесуваме повикот до јавноста од професорите „Како никогаш порано, во најтешките моменти на поновата национална и политичка историја, на Македонија ѝ е итно потребен здружен опозициски блок, кој ќе ги обедини сите граѓански и интелектуални капацитети. Со оглед на состојбата, ова ќе биде работа на повеќе генерации, но првиот предизвик со кој треба да се соочиме на политички план се претседателските избори. Станува збор за навидум помалку важна институција во парламентарен систем, но историскиот миг ја прави повеќе од значајна. Во услови на нарушени контролни механизми, дерогација на поделбата на власта и на системот на „кочници и рамнотежа“, во ситуација кога ставот на граѓаните изразен на референдум беше безобразно заобиколен, институцијата Претседател на Републиката е последниот, или поточно првиот, браник на уставните вредности.

    Ова не е време за нормален политички натпревар, особено поради основаните сомнежи дека власта не е подготвена да организира фер и чесни избори. Затоа, како единствена рационална алтернатива се наметнува обединувањето зад личност, зад кандидат кој со сиот свој животен и академски хабитус, морал и интегритет, се издигнал над ситните меѓупартиски и меѓуетнички ривалитети. Таква надпартиска личност е професорката на Правниот факултет во Скопје, Гордана Силјановска-Давкова. Во нејзината личност и јавно дејствување се препознаваме без оглед на политичка, верска, етничка или социјална припадност. Свесни дека учеството во политички натпревар во вакви околности бара голема саможртва, особено при окториран устав и изменето име, ние, долупотпишаните, јавно ја повикуваме Гордана Силјановска-Давкова да размисли за можноста да се појави како кандидат на претстојните избори. Се надеваме овој апел ќе стаса и до најголемата опозициска партија во Собранието, со цел да создаде поширока општествена синергија и да застане зад нашиот предлог.

    Во овој момент ни е потребен претседател кој нема да спроведува нечија партиска политика, туку ќе биде гласот на разумот, правото, Уставот и совест на граѓаните. За првпат во политичката историја на Македонија имате можност да поддржите личност, на која ќе ѝ верувате дека ќе биде гласен коректор и морален авторитет во петгодишен период на тешки искушенија за земјата и дома и на меѓународен план. Доколку ја испуштиме оваа шанса да излеземе сплотени околу една исклучителна личност, ова можат да бидат и последните непосредни избори за претседател на Републиката. Не се сомневаме дека во случај на неуспешни избори, владејачката коалиција ќе пристапи кон уште една уставна измена со која ќе ни го одземе правото непосредно да одлучуваме за наш граѓански претставник на позицијата шеф на државата, а партократијата ќе се всели во уште една државна институција. Веруваме дека проф. Силјановска-Давкова може да внесе разум, знаење и морал на политичката сцена, и дека ќе ги обедини македонските граѓани на кои суштествено им е потребен заеднички глас во полза на владеење на правото и здравиот разум, пишуваат универзитетските професори“, се вели во повикот на професорите.

    Потписници се повикот се:

    1. Катица Ќулафкова, академик
    2. Наде Проева, професор
    3. Каролина Ристовска-Астеруд, професор
    4. Фредерика Поповска-Павловска, професор
    5. Билјана Ванковска, професор
    6. Жидас Даскаловски, професор
    7. Елка Јачева Улчар, професор
    8. Михајло Миноски, професор
    9. Никола Павловски, професор
    10. Богдан Богданов, професор
    11. Снежана Филипова, професор
    12. Костадин Тренчевски, професор
    13. Ивица Милевски, професор
    14. Јован Донев, професор
    15. Велика Стојкова Серафимовска, професор
    16. Валериј Софрониевски, професор
    17. Јани Бојаџи, режисер
    18. Ружица Манојловиќ, професор
    19. Игор Улчар, професор
    20. Константин Миноски, професор
    21. Марија Ристевска, доцент
    22. Драги Митревски, професор
    23. Тихомир Стојановски, професор
    24. Благоја Јанаков, професор
    25. Петре Георгиевски, професор
    26. Јане Богданов, професор
    27. Виктор Ѓамовски, професор
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15660

      #17
      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
      Here is Filip Petrovski's declaration as candidate:

      До Конвенцијата на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ за кандидирање кандидат за Претседател на Република Македонија Согласно јавниот повик на мојата партија ВМРО-ДПМНЕ и условите кои на тој повик беа истакнати како потребни за кандидирање за Претседател на Република Македонија, го поднесувам

      Поседувам план и програма кои сум подготвен да ги презентирам пред Конвенцијата на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ

      He declared that he has a plan.
      This is familiar.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        #18
        Hadi Osmani (Albanian member of SDSM): The majority of Albanians will vote for the SDSM candidate

        URL:


        "With the presidential elections, I expect to complete the installation of new Euro-Western values ​​in our entire system. With the election of a new president, very different and advanced than the one so far, Macedonia will have a complete European leadership, " - said Hadi Osmani from SDSM.

        He believes that DUI's announcement to go with its own candidate for President of the Republic of Macedonia is only their stunt.

        "It looks more like a procedure, an acrobacy for an intra-ethnic daily political agenda. DUI has the right to run its own candidate, but the situation will force them to return to the joint candidate with our SDSM party," Osmani said.

        Osmani claims that the Albanians as a voting body are already well aware and determined to directly influence the election of the new president.

        "I had many meetings with ambassadors of friendly countries last time. Everyone argues that the time of nationalism and interethnic tensions has passed and will not be allowed to happen in the future. Also, we who are already in the SDSM, we have more and more support from our fellow citizens Albanians and they are no longer a controlled crowd controlled by one party", stated Hadi Osmani for Актуелно-објективно.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13675

          #19
          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          He declared that he has a plan.
          This is familiar.
          Petrovski is now asking for the backing of Gruevski as a way for the latter to correct his past mistakes. Looks like he is intent on being a DPNE candidate, perhaps its nostalgia or perhaps he wants to be able to utilise the political structures and reach that DPNE has in place.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Gocka
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 2306

            #20
            Its tricky because you have to be a realist sometimes. You don't just build a political party from scratch, certainly not in a place like Macedonia where the people do not have that activist grassroots type of mentality.

            Sometimes I try to put myself in the position of some of these people and ask what would I do. Sometimes you have to speak to people the way that they want to be spoken to. Sometimes you have to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Sometimes you have to compromise. This is all part of the art of politics. If everyone always agreed on everything and all we had to do is shake hands and move on, then politics and governments wouldn't be needed.

            If I were in Petreovski's shoes, I would try and take over the party apparatus. Once in charge I would begin to reshape it and dismantle the corrupt aspects of it. I see the struggle of Levica for example, trying to gain recognition, and grow as a party. The problem is DPNE has deep roots, and getting rid of all the bad elements might much more difficult than it seems.

            The real solution is to start from a clean slate, in order to do that you need the people. You need people to volunteer, self organize, and be persistent until the job is done.

            Comment

            • vicsinad
              Senior Member
              • May 2011
              • 2337

              #21
              Originally posted by Gocka View Post
              Its tricky because you have to be a realist sometimes. You don't just build a political party from scratch, certainly not in a place like Macedonia where the people do not have that activist grassroots type of mentality.

              Sometimes I try to put myself in the position of some of these people and ask what would I do. Sometimes you have to speak to people the way that they want to be spoken to. Sometimes you have to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Sometimes you have to compromise. This is all part of the art of politics. If everyone always agreed on everything and all we had to do is shake hands and move on, then politics and governments wouldn't be needed.

              If I were in Petreovski's shoes, I would try and take over the party apparatus. Once in charge I would begin to reshape it and dismantle the corrupt aspects of it. I see the struggle of Levica for example, trying to gain recognition, and grow as a party. The problem is DPNE has deep roots, and getting rid of all the bad elements might much more difficult than it seems.

              The real solution is to start from a clean slate, in order to do that you need the people. You need people to volunteer, self organize, and be persistent until the job is done.
              Good points, Gocka. For how long have third parties in the US been trying to gain legitimacy in voters' eye -- whether its the Libertarians or the Greens. When the a couple of parties are deeply embedded in the fabric of government and politics, you need a massive amount of people to overcome that. Or, you need to be rich or famous or have some sort of reputable standing in the community to get the votes (I'm thinking Jesse Ventura in Minnesota getting elected to governor as 3rd party candidate). That usually doesn't guarantee the party any success -- once that individual is out of politics, it's back to the two parties.

              It's not easy.

              Comment

              • Phoenix
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 4671

                #22
                Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                Good points, Gocka. For how long have third parties in the US been trying to gain legitimacy in voters' eye -- whether its the Libertarians or the Greens. When the a couple of parties are deeply embedded in the fabric of government and politics, you need a massive amount of people to overcome that. Or, you need to be rich or famous or have some sort of reputable standing in the community to get the votes (I'm thinking Jesse Ventura in Minnesota getting elected to governor as 3rd party candidate). That usually doesn't guarantee the party any success -- once that individual is out of politics, it's back to the two parties.

                It's not easy.
                It is certainly not a problem restricted to Macedonia and the USA alone...the two party system is the dominant feature of most democracies around the world...and then on top of that (as you've touched on) you have the emergence of (the rich/powerful/famous) political dynasties that further dilute political diversity...the Adams'...Roosevelt's...Kennedy's...Bush's...Clinto n's (still trying to make their mark - ) Trudeau's...Nehru–Gandhi's...Papandreou's...Karama nlis'...
                Last edited by Phoenix; 02-03-2019, 08:48 AM.

                Comment

                • Gocka
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 2306

                  #23
                  Originally posted by vicsinad View Post
                  Good points, Gocka. For how long have third parties in the US been trying to gain legitimacy in voters' eye -- whether its the Libertarians or the Greens. When the a couple of parties are deeply embedded in the fabric of government and politics, you need a massive amount of people to overcome that. Or, you need to be rich or famous or have some sort of reputable standing in the community to get the votes (I'm thinking Jesse Ventura in Minnesota getting elected to governor as 3rd party candidate). That usually doesn't guarantee the party any success -- once that individual is out of politics, it's back to the two parties.

                  It's not easy.
                  Like Phoenix said, the two party system dominates almost everywhere. The real test of a democracy though is whether you can actually affect those party structures and agendas when needed. In the USA the parties have gone through many major shifts over time. Look at the dramatic effect the tea party had on the Republicans, now look at Trump's effect. Look at how people like Bernie and Warren have pushed the Democrats further left. This is part of the ebb and flow of the system in the US.

                  In the US those shifts came about through shear will from the people. Massive amounts of people got behind these figures and movements and caused real change. The change isn't instant, but you can clearly see its progression.

                  In Macedonia its the opposite. The people wait for a political leader to set the agenda and they just follow along. Even when someone does come along, and there have been people who have tried, the people expect things to just happen without their participation. Where in the USA people will organize rallies and donate to campaigns, knock on doors to raise awareness, Macedonians just wait around for this magical figure to right all wrongs.

                  Macedonians don't understand democracy, mainly that it requires participation in many more ways than just voting in a few years. Especially when there is corruption and entrenched political parties. There is no self healing mechanism for the government, the only means of healing has to come through the will and actions of the people.

                  Comment

                  • Rogi
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2343

                    #24
                    There's an increasing voice in Macedonia advocating for a boycott of the Presidential election. The strongest argument of which I have seen is the one saying electing a President of North Macedonia legitimises the name change. The counter is that Talat Xaferi will then assume the role for 6 months if no President is elected.

                    No matter how you play it, it's a no win situation.

                    It's time for the game to change, otherwise this looks like we're playing the game of the traitors and debating over the lesser evil.

                    If the word boycott can't shift to the word revolution, and given the passiveness of the nation it seems it can't, then at least the boycott voice should shift to an all out boycott of all institutions.

                    Boycott paying taxes to North Macedonia.
                    Boycott using ID that says North Macedonia.
                    Boycott the products and businesses of those involved in this treason.
                    Boycott going to the universities in North Macedonia.
                    Take your children out of schools in North Macedonia, refuse to let them learn from books written on the orders of a foreign nation (Greece).
                    Take your money out of the banks.
                    Pay cash only for all transactions, avoid all taxes.
                    Don't let any institution in North Macedonia see any money, any taxes from the people.

                    Force the Government into a situation where they have no revenue and no ability to borrow therefore no ability to pay the administration, the police, the MPs, etc.

                    It's easy enough, it doesn't affect peoples day to day life so the passive lazy nature of Macedonians plays well.

                    Don't boycott the Presidential elections, that wont achieve a win. Instead, boycott absolutely everything.

                    Comment

                    • YuriB
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2019
                      • 54

                      #25
                      Can citizens vote from abroad?

                      Avoiding to vote (or participate in general) normally results in one's voice not being counted and increases the power of others.
                      Regards,
                      A Greek supporting self-determination of Macedonians!

                      Comment

                      • sydney
                        Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 390

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                        There's an increasing voice in Macedonia advocating for a boycott of the Presidential election. The strongest argument of which I have seen is the one saying electing a President of North Macedonia legitimises the name change. The counter is that Talat Xaferi will then assume the role for 6 months if no President is elected.

                        No matter how you play it, it's a no win situation.

                        It's time for the game to change, otherwise this looks like we're playing the game of the traitors and debating over the lesser evil.

                        If the word boycott can't shift to the word revolution, and given the passiveness of the nation it seems it can't, then at least the boycott voice should shift to an all out boycott of all institutions.

                        Boycott paying taxes to North Macedonia.
                        Boycott using ID that says North Macedonia.
                        Boycott the products and businesses of those involved in this treason.
                        Boycott going to the universities in North Macedonia.
                        Take your children out of schools in North Macedonia, refuse to let them learn from books written on the orders of a foreign nation (Greece).
                        Take your money out of the banks.
                        Pay cash only for all transactions, avoid all taxes.
                        Don't let any institution in North Macedonia see any money, any taxes from the people.

                        Force the Government into a situation where they have no revenue and no ability to borrow therefore no ability to pay the administration, the police, the MPs, etc.

                        It's easy enough, it doesn't affect peoples day to day life so the passive lazy nature of Macedonians plays well.

                        Don't boycott the Presidential elections, that wont achieve a win. Instead, boycott absolutely everything.
                        Interesting. I like it. Have you seen this seeded by some locals? They’ll need leaders to rise and shape such a movement.

                        Comment

                        • Gocka
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2012
                          • 2306

                          #27
                          Another boycott would be the most idiotic thing in the history of man.

                          I'm still not convinced that the original boycott "movement" wasn't orchestrated behind the scenes by SDSM. Because they came and went in a flash, not faces no names, after the referendum the "movement" was gone. What a coincidence its popping up again when there is yet again an opportunity to FUCK things up.

                          If people want to boycott something, stop going to work, stop paying taxes, bring the country to a standstill.

                          Everyone must vote, and they must vote for someone who will use the full power of the presidency to stop Zaev. Someone who will LEAD a resistance.

                          If Macedonians fuck this up again it may be the last nail in the coffin.

                          Comment

                          • Vangelovski
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 8533

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Gocka View Post
                            If people want to boycott something, stop going to work, stop paying taxes, bring the country to a standstill.
                            They've already done this But they're doing it out of pure laziness, not opposition to RNMK. We really need to fit the words "Democratic" and "People's" into this name - that will make it more North Korean sounding...isn't that what we're going for here?
                            If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                            The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                            Comment

                            • Tomche Makedonche
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2011
                              • 1123

                              #29
                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              They've already done this But they're doing it out of pure laziness, not opposition to RNMK. We really need to fit the words "Democratic" and "People's" into this name - that will make it more North Korean sounding...isn't that what we're going for here?
                              I think the word European should be in there as well:

                              The Democratic European People’s Republic of North Macedonia

                              Just makes you want to sing songs about it...
                              Last edited by Tomche Makedonche; 02-06-2019, 01:24 AM.
                              “There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

                              Comment

                              • Phoenix
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 4671

                                #30
                                Originally posted by sydney View Post
                                Interesting. I like it. Have you seen this seeded by some locals? They’ll need leaders to rise and shape such a movement.
                                ...and that's where every good idea comes unstuck in Macedonia...an appalling lack of leadership.

                                Comment

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