Athens to finally get Alexander the Great statue.

[Nikolaj]

Incorrect, it is only modern historians who have interpreted Macedonian history with a Hellenic filter Poligiros, would like like me to repeat that? Hellenic filter.

It is far more exciting knowing who the ancient Macedonians were as opposed to who they could have been. Since they cannot prove who the ancient Macedonians were, they have settled to call them Hellenes.

Reading about the ethnicity and culture of a figure like Alexander and seeing the word 'could have' or 'possibly have been' is a no go for historians.

Put the Thracians or Illyrians in this position, they would have concluded their ethnicity to have been Greek too, watch.

[Dejan]

So you are more pure than my type of Macedonia that is native to the southern Macedonian region,

There is no other type of Macedonia/Macedonians. There is only one. You people up until Macedonia declared it's independence didn't want anything to do with the term Macedonia/Macedonians. Lets not kid ourselves, and your derogatory remarks shouldn't be tolerated on our forum.

You talk about some sort of minority at the southern most tip of Macedonia that were hellenic or whatnot. But what about the majority that were nothing other than Macedonian? Why in your eyes are they not Macedonian???

If we are slavs, then so are you people. Either that or turks/albanians/vlachs and the list goes on.

Progress will be made when you accept some hard truths.

[Poligiros]

There is no other type of Macedonia/Macedonians. There is only one. You people up until Macedonia declared it's independence didn't want anything to do with the term Macedonia/Macedonians. Lets not kid ourselves, and your derogatory remarks shouldn't be tolerated on our forum.

You talk about some sort of minority at the southern most tip of Macedonia that were hellenic or whatnot. But what about the majority that were nothing other than Macedonian? Why in your eyes are they not Macedonian???

If we are slavs, then so are you people. Either that or turks/albanians/vlachs and the list goes on.

Progress will be made when you accept some hard truths.

You are making assertions and jumping down my throat for no real reason. Did I say your people were Slavs? No. I mentioned that from what I have read, your language forms part of the 'Southern-Slavic' group, that should also be noted as a component of Macedonia in addition to Roman, Hellenistic etc. But this is totally irrelevant to our discussion.

I am not denying you in regards to claiming Macedonian heritage. However from what I have researched Macedonia has been multi-ethnic for centuries. The Ottoman and impartial census, historians, anthropologists place my people in southern Aegean Macedonia throughout the ages. My native village is 15 kms from ancient Macedonian settlement of Olynthus.

Hypothetically speaking, even if Greece was to recognize Republic of Macedonia, you would always have underlying issues with the Hellenic republic that wont dissipate. SYRIZA is coming, your wish may be granted much to the ire of the majority of Hellenes.

[Poligiros]

Incorrect, it is only modern historians who have interpreted Macedonian history with a Hellenic filter Poligiros, would like like me to repeat that? Hellenic filter.

What about Herodotus ? With modern historians, it varies man. You should know their research borders from full Hellenic tribe through to a barbarian/loose Greek coupling.

[/QUOTE] Put the Thracians or Illyrians in this position, they would have concluded their ethnicity to have been Greek too, watch.[/QUOTE]

Good point. Possibly the Thracians would have been placed in the Hellenic ethnicity bracket - as the first Hellenic colonies in Thrace are dated at around 700BC and are in the modern borders. Also language was closely related to Ancient Greek?? I think.

As for the Illyrians, they were situated on the neighboring outskirts of the Greek City/states (modern day Albania and Montenegro) from what I know had a major Roman influence, hence may have been defined as Non-Greek. Also, dont know much about the language they utilized.

[Nikolaj]

What about Herodotus ? With modern historians, it varies man. You should know their research borders from full Hellenic tribe through to a barbarian/loose Greek coupling.

Good point. Possibly the Thracians would have been placed in the Hellenic ethnicity bracket - as the first Hellenic colonies in Thrace are dated at around 700BC and are in the modern borders. Also language was closely related to Ancient Greek?? I think.

As for the Illyrians, they were situated on the neighboring outskirts of the Greek City/states (modern day Albania and Montenegro) from what I know had a major Roman influence, hence may have been defined as Non-Greek. Also, dont know much about the language they utilized.

What about Herodotus? He has clearly identified the boarders of ancient Hellas which did not include Macedon.

I apologize but I do not see your point. Mygdonia was always inhabited by Thracians until Macedon annexed it which was much later than 700BC.

Around the same time there was Athenian coastal settlement which led up all around the black sea.

How does this correspond with the your modern boarders and even more importantly, have impact on the conclusion of the Thracian ethnicity? Yes, I know you are not actually saying they were Hellenic.

No, the Thracians were far more close with the Illyrians in terms similarities, far before any Roman influence.

[Dejan]

You are making assertions and jumping down my throat for no real reason. Did I say your people were Slavs? No. I mentioned that from what I have read, your language forms part of the 'Southern-Slavic' group, that should also be noted as a component of Macedonia in addition to Roman, Hellenistic etc. But this is totally irrelevant to our discussion.

I am not denying you in regards to claiming Macedonian heritage. However from what I have researched Macedonia has been multi-ethnic for centuries. The Ottoman and impartial census, historians, anthropologists place my people in southern Aegean Macedonia throughout the ages. My native village is 15 kms from ancient Macedonian settlement of Olynthus.

Hypothetically speaking, even if Greece was to recognize Republic of Macedonia, you would always have underlying issues with the Hellenic republic that wont dissipate. SYRIZA is coming, your wish may be granted much to the ire of the majority of Hellenes.

The point is that the Macedonians (us) are the only ones claiming to be ethnic Macedonians. There is no one else who claims to be ethnically Macedonian. You guys claim that Macedonians are ethnically Greek. So let's start building bridges with that, instead of muddying waters with irrelevant 'ancient evidence'.

My personal stance on Greek politics is that I don't care much for it, as I liken it to a Hollywood movie or a Facebook page fishing for likes. To me it honestly doesn't affect whether your government believes we are who we are or not. It is an external nation's politics trying to interfere with another nation. I don't care for Syriza or whoever else is in power. They are saying things that you people want to hear about us. Even you can see it's not the truth.

[Amphipolis]

I understand where you are coming from. However, in reality the Republic of Macedonia has a great portion of prehistoric Macedonia, geographically.

Which era exactly do you call "prehistoric Macedonia"? I thought Macedonia appeared in historical times.

[Amphipolis]

What about Herodotus? He has clearly identified the boarders of ancient Hellas which did not include Macedon.

...and he did that with quotes like this one (about Alexander I):

They at once, hearing this, made haste to the outpost, where they found Alexander, who addressed them as follows:-

"Men of Athens, that which I am about to say I trust to your honour; and I charge you to keep it secret from all excepting Pausanias, if you would not bring me to destruction. Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Greece, I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself a Greek by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery. Know then that Mardonius and his army cannot obtain favourable omens; had it not been for this, they would have fought with you long ago. Now, however, they have determined to let the victims pass unheeded, and, as soon as day dawns, to engage in battle. Mardonius, I imagine, is afraid that, if he delays, you will increase in number. Make ready then to receive him. Should he however still defer the combat, do you abide where you are; for his provisions will not hold out many more days. If ye prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Greek cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon."

[Nikolaj]

That is not Herodotus saying that, it is Alexander I.

Herodotus himself who has no political intentions excluded Macedon from within Greece, unlike Alexander I who was two-faced playing friendly on both sides with the Greeks and Persians.

[Nikolaj]

Which era exactly do you call "prehistoric Macedonia"? I thought Macedonia appeared in historical times.

From what was the Kingdom of Macedon throughout all the empires which lead over it. Even Greece's Macedonian region extend beyond what these boarders were, which is why you could not say the Republic of Macedonia's boarders do not correspond with it.
Even then it is irrelevant, my people were the major ethnic group which inhabited what is now northern Greece which easily extended into the boarders from antiquity anyways.

[Philosopher]

...and he did that with quotes like this one (about Alexander I):

They at once, hearing this, made haste to the outpost, where they found Alexander, who addressed them as follows:-

"Men of Athens, that which I am about to say I trust to your honour; and I charge you to keep it secret from all excepting Pausanias, if you would not bring me to destruction. Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Greece, I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself a Greek by descent, and I would not willingly see Greece exchange freedom for slavery. Know then that Mardonius and his army cannot obtain favourable omens; had it not been for this, they would have fought with you long ago. Now, however, they have determined to let the victims pass unheeded, and, as soon as day dawns, to engage in battle. Mardonius, I imagine, is afraid that, if he delays, you will increase in number. Make ready then to receive him. Should he however still defer the combat, do you abide where you are; for his provisions will not hold out many more days. If ye prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Greek cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians. I am Alexander of Macedon."

Even if we accept at face value that Alexander I was Greek, his Greek heritage rested on his Greek ancestry (he claimed to be of Argive descent), not his being Macedonian.

Put differently, he was not accepted for being Greek because he was Macedonian; he was accepted as a "Greek" because he claimed Greek ancestry.

Think about this logically.

If the Macedonians were ethnic Greeks with an ethnic Greek king, why would the Greeks oppose Alexander's entrance in the Olympic Games? They were not regarded as Greeks. However, Alexander I claimed he had Greek lineage, and he was accepted in the games.

The only logical inference is that the Macedonians were not regarded as ethnic Greeks, and for this reason the Macedonian king was not accepted as an ethnic Greek. However, Alexander I, wishing to participate in the games, claimed Greek ancestry.

I would argue based on the totality of Herodotus that the Greeks accepted Alexander I for political reasons, not based actual evidence supporting his Greek ancestry.

It is obvious that in Herodotus that the "Highland people of Macedonia" were foreigners and Macedonia, including Therma, was outside of Greece.

[George S.]

Do people know what a pjillhelene is?Also the speaking of a tounge doesn't make people of that race.Also despite race differences how can we consider masos as greeks.?

[makedonche]

Even if we accept at face value that Alexander I was Greek, his Greek heritage rested on his Greek ancestry (he claimed to be of Argive descent), not his being Macedonian.

Put differently, he was not accepted for being Greek because he was Macedonian; he was accepted as a "Greek" because he claimed Greek ancestry.

Think about this logically.

If the Macedonians were ethnic Greeks with an ethnic Greek king, why would the Greeks oppose Alexander's entrance in the Olympic Games? They were not regarded as Greeks. However, Alexander I claimed he had Greek lineage, and he was accepted in the games.

The only logical inference is that the Macedonians were not regarded as ethnic Greeks, and for this reason the Macedonian king was not accepted as an ethnic Greek. However, Alexander I, wishing to participate in the games, claimed Greek ancestry.

I would argue based on the totality of Herodotus that the Greeks accepted Alexander I for political reasons, not based actual evidence supporting his Greek ancestry.

It is obvious that in Herodotus that the "Highland people of Macedonia" were foreigners and Macedonia, including Therma, was outside of Greece.

Philosopher
Very well put, logically concluded and makes sense to most people, however you're dealing with Greeks here, what you need to remember is their criteria for being Greek is simple....."everything is Greek, just prove us wrong"...and the fallback which is in their constitution (or was until recent times)..."you only have to feel Greek to be Greek".
I fear your logic and common sense will fail to work with that mentality, and of course their favourite defence "denial", you can see it in all their posts!

[lavce pelagonski]

The reason they accepted him was purely due to t he fact that Macedonia provided a barrier between Persia. If you recal Alexander the I backstabed the Athenians.

[Amphipolis]

The reason they accepted him was purely due to t he fact that Macedonia provided a barrier between Persia. If you recal Alexander the I backstabed the Athenians.

Actually I don't recall. Can you remind us?

http://classics.mit.edu/Herodotus/history.9.ix.html