Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[spitfire]

How many times are you going to avoid this Spitfire?


Can you please explain, why you believe she is "Macedonian." Remember post# 174

Spitfire post# 174 According to the law you have greek nationality if one of your parents is greek.

Do you agree with your law? Neither of her parents are Macedonian. You said she has claim to be Macedonian, what claim does she have?

She is not a Macedonian


Spitfire post# 239 By whose standards? Yours? You can't decide that I'm afraid.


Who are you to decide that she is Macedonian?

First of all, I don't decide about anything. Secondly one of the things that give you nationality under greek law is one of your parents being greek, she's got both if I'm not mistaken.

It is obvious you haven't been reading the conversation. I've answered everything a few pages back.

[spitfire]

Spitfire
Nothing wrong with smashing plates at all! But can you please stop with the attempts at humour, you know what I mean...that Macedonian identity thing, just because she may have learnt some "culture" doesn't make her Macedonian!

Really? And how is that? Is it because she doesn't speak pelasgian slavic?

[Risto the Great]

What catharsis was made with Katharevousa my friend? What was left of Katharevousa in the demotic language? What did it introduced exactly, do you know? Syntax and Grammar re-introduced? hahahaha.... yeah and a few words that didn't stand up to the task.
Start with that.
And you want me not to paint you with any brush? You haven't the foggiest idea of what you are talking about and you want me to bring you a text?
Bring any greek text you want.

Do you want me to show you a text from the last emperor of Constantinople? It's the same as today, maybe one or two words not immediately identifiable, but the rest 500 or so are.

Do you even have 500 words of your language from that era? Don't think so. Do you even have 500 words from any old era that you can claim as your own? Still don't think so.
Compare that to a whole language with thousands of words that is the same today, as it was thousands of years ago, and throughout history like the greek language.

Latin looks like English.
When I use your synthesis, I can say I understand it.
I even like pizza.
So I am Roman?

I don't want to see text from the last emperor of Constantinople. I prefer to see what the Romios of Ellada were speaking before the catharsis.

I can say the Old Macedonian language is wonderfully akin to modern Macedonian. It is over 1000 years old and there was no process or machinations involved in creating the modern Macedonian language in the way it what was done with modern Greek. Your modern Greek had a catharsis where naturally evolved words were rejected in favour of introduced archaic words. What you understand now has no bearing on the language your people understood 200 years ago. You can wish the case is different, but it will only be a wish. It's fine mate, you can have the language. Croatians seem to be doing the same thing nowadays from what I gather.

[Redsun]

Spitfire - First of all, I don't decide about anything. Secondly one of the things that give you nationality under greek law is one of your parents being greek, she's got both if I'm not mistaken.


Where was her mother born?

[spitfire]

Latin looks like English.
When I use your synthesis, I can say I understand it.
I even like pizza.
So I am Roman?

I don't want to see text from the last emperor of Constantinople. I prefer to see what the Romios of Ellada were speaking before the catharsis.

I can say the Old Macedonian language is wonderfully akin to modern Macedonian. It is over 1000 years old and there was no process or machinations involved in creating the modern Macedonian language in the way it what was done with modern Greek. Your modern Greek had a catharsis where naturally evolved words were rejected in favour of introduced archaic words. What you understand now has no bearing on the language your people understood 200 years ago. You can wish the case is different, but it will only be a wish. It's fine mate, you can have the language. Croatians seem to be doing the same thing nowadays from what I gather.

What are you talking about now?

Bring any greek text from any era you want, any vernacular you want. It's dead easy, easier than the older ones if it is medieval greek, or if it is a little before Katharevousa, or Katharevousa itself.
You don't seem to understand what I say. Neither you are aware of greek.

Bring it in then. I found a few mediaval lyrics in the vernacular. Show it to your cousins if they speak greek and ask them what they don't understand.

Ιδού το έαρ το γλυκύ πάλιν επανατέλλει
Χαράν, υγείαν και ζωήν και την ευημερίαν,
Ανδραγαθίαν εκ Θεού τω βασιλεί Ρωμαίων
Και νίκην θεοδώρητον κατά των πολεμίων.

That's mediaval greek my friend. Same as today. The word "έαρ" today is Άνοιξη but we say εαρινή ισημερία when we refer to the vernal equinox.
And that's the only word your cousins might not get, but I doubt that also because it is a very common word.

You can use synthesis to languages that are related to yours, or languages that you are aware of. Not languages that are not simillar or that you are not familiar with.
Therefore you can use synthesis for any slavic language if you speak modern macedonian.
If you do however try to use synthesis in languages that are not related, then you end up like that facebook page I showed you or the videos that claim macedonian words out of... greek texts of the Iliad.
You understand of course how wrong, let alone uneducated, that is.

[Amphipolis]

Where was her mother born?

Her mother was born in Thessalonike, she grew up in Hemathia and returned for her theater studies in Thessalonike. She is a poet and author.

[Amphipolis]

You and your kin on the other hand are reliant on the rest of the world to confirm and sustain who you are....they even sent a German Prince to rule you, an English paedophile to create your history for you and the EU to fund this comical farce!

I don't really mind, but who was the paedophile?

[Amphipolis]

So how many generations of offsprings being born in macedonian land does it take an offspring to be regarded macedonian?
Do we have a number?

No, they don't have a number, so I’ll give you one since you’ve… busted our balls. When you’re a newcomer somewhere people know it. Two or three decades of presence is usually enough and the second generation is quite established. The third or fourth ones are … certainly established as they may not even remember where they came from, not to mention there will have been mixes meanwhile.

Kouvelas the Mayor of Thessalonike in the 80s-90s was a Peloponnesian who came here for studies and stayed for ever. He was often taunted for not being local. Boutaris is different as his grandfather was in the town council (whatever form it had) during Ottoman Empire!!! (Yes, that’s really unbelievable, yet true).

I’m a 3rd generation in Thessalonike and ??? (lost in time) in Macedonia.

====

[Philosopher]

No, they don't have a number, so I’ll give you one

There can only be a subjective answer. I will answer it in this manner.

First, there is no pure people on the face of this earth.

Second, I would distinguish between a citizen of a country and ethnicity. So, for example, if a large number British expats moved to Macedonia, and three generations later they only intermixed among themselves, I would argue that they are not ethnic Macedonians; only Macedonian citizens.

Third, to be an ethnic Macedonian, one must descend from ethnic Macedonians. In this context, it matters nothing how many generations are involved. If a child is mixed, say a Greek mother, and a Macedonian father, I would say the child is both ethnic Greek and ethnic Macedonian.

Determining what constitutes an ethnicity would rest on lineage.

I’m a 3rd generation in Thessalonike and ??? (lost in time) in Macedonia.

Have you ever considered the notion that your family may have originally been ethnic Macedonians and your family was Hellenized? Have you researched your family tree?

[Amphipolis]

Have you ever considered the notion that your family may have originally been ethnic Macedonians and your family was Hellenized? Have you researched your family tree?

I know my Macedonian grandmother was not a Vlach or ethnic-Macedonian or any other specific tribe, just Greek and I guess that is an indication for her parents (who lived in the second half of 1800s and were urban merchants). But I don't know anything before that and I don't even hope anything can be found (e.g. things like Ottoman files).

[George S.]

Apparently the turks hold a lot of info on things in their archives,Has anyone tried to access things.

[spitfire]

No, they don't have a number, so I’ll give you one since you’ve… busted our balls. When you’re a newcomer somewhere people know it. Two or three decades of presence is usually enough and the second generation is quite established. The third or fourth ones are … certainly established as they may not even remember where they came from, not to mention there will have been mixes meanwhile.

Kouvelas the Mayor of Thessalonike in the 80s-90s was a Peloponnesian who came here for studies and stayed for ever. He was often taunted for not being local. Boutaris is different as his grandfather was in the town council (whatever form it had) during Ottoman Empire!!! (Yes, that’s really unbelievable, yet true).

I’m a 3rd generation in Thessalonike and ??? (lost in time) in Macedonia.

====

I thought so myself.
So it is the same like everywhere else in the world.

[Redsun]

Thank you Amphi, where did you read this?

I thought her mother was of Asia minor descent? Do you consider her mother Greek?


Spitfire - So how many generations of offsprings being born in macedonian land does it take an offspring to be regarded macedonian?
Do we have a number?


You cant compare two different races.

The use of words and the shape of your question suggests to me that an alien race could settle in Greece and breed with others of its own race and after so many generations, they will be considered Greek.

You believe that it takes a number of generations of hiding amongst another culture that at some point they will be considered native?

To answer your question... Zero.

A parent has to be Macedonian


Amphipolis - No, they don't have a number, so I’ll give you one since you’ve… busted our balls. When you’re a newcomer somewhere people know it. Two or three decades of presence is usually enough and the second generation is quite established. The third or fourth ones are … certainly established as they may not even remember where they came from, not to mention there will have been mixes meanwhile.


Two to Three decades, you are easily mixed.

Two to Three decades! they must have no form of self respect what so ever to be converted so easily. How do you accept such worthless people into your country?

If they had no respect for their own lands how will they treat yours?

[Redsun]

I know my Macedonian grandmother was not a Vlach or ethnic-Macedonian or any other specific tribe, just Greek and I guess that is an indication for her parents (who lived in the second half of 1800s and were urban merchants). But I don't know anything before that and I don't even hope anything can be found (e.g. things like Ottoman files).

You know your mother was not an ethnic/native Macedonian.

Where did she come from?

[spitfire]

Thank you Amphi, where did you read this?

I thought her mother was of Asia minor descent? Do you consider her mother Greek?


Spitfire - So how many generations of offsprings being born in macedonian land does it take an offspring to be regarded macedonian?
Do we have a number?


You cant compare two different races.

The use of words and the shape of your question suggests to me that an alien race could settle in Greece and breed with others of its own race and after so many generations, they will be considered Greek.

You believe that it takes a number of generations of hiding amongst another culture that at some point they will be considered native?

To answer your question... Zero.

A parent has to be Macedonian

I'm not comparing two different races Redsun. I'm speaking of the macedonians, regardless if they are greeks or of some other nationality.

There were people that were absorbed and became greek and they love it. Ask Arvanites. It was easy for them of course since they already had been very close to the greek culture at the time of the greek revolution.
But in the sense of time, yes you could say there was a race that was absorbed.