Bosnia: Politics and Current Events

[George S.]

does anyone know what vlatko's defence willl be.?

[Soldier of Macedon]

As a rule, I am against generalisations, as most of you would already know, so I don't agree that all Greeks are anti-Macedonians or have a mental inability to recognise the Macedonian identity. Unfortunately though, most appear to be this way - at least on the internet where they don't have to confront the people they denigrate. That doesn't mean that the door is closed to Greeks who posses logic and decency, it just means the morons among them won't be accepted here.

[Bill77]

I can't wait to get internet back. Fatso, please hang around so I can faten you up further with information on how much worse your ancestors were compared to the Turks. You will not enjoy the taste but I will make you eat it. Most of the stuff has been fed to you guys already. But you must have missed out.

Don't throw stones mate.

[Pelister]

He does get special treatment here. You of all people know very well how he dodged questions he was posed . When he was presented proof of his denial he would disappear for a while.

Are you referring to Greek forums ? I'm not .

SoM, you should spend more time reaching out to Greeks who support you, rather than chasing them off the forum like you have done in the past.

Clearly, you have been paying zero attention to whats been going on here, otherwise you would have a clue. As it stands you don't have that either. Find me a 'Greek' on this forum that recognises Macedonians as a distinctive and separate identity - every one of them are liars and thieves, drip fed through that fked up education system in the New Greece, an education system that pushes that sham heritage we all know so much about now.

[Phoenix]

SoM, you should spend more time reaching out to Greeks who support you, rather than chasing them off the forum like you have done in the past.

Fatso, fuck the lot of you...

Not a single 'greek' exists that hasn't got some serious mental issue...

You're the typical example of what I'm talking about...

[Soldier of Macedon]

He does get special treatment here.

No, he doesn't, and I challenge you to produce evidence of this so-called 'special' treatment.

Are you referring to Greek forums ? I'm not .

What sort of forums are you referring to?

SoM, you should spend more time reaching out to Greeks who support you, rather than chasing them off the forum like you have done in the past.

Fatso, I don't chase Greeks off the forum, unless they are being racist against Macedonians. If you'd been following the development of the forum you would be aware of this. Unless you can refer me to an example? Do you feel as if I am pushing you away, and if so, how?

[fatso]

Fatso, why would he be torn apart on other forums? Do you think he gets special treatment here? Or is it because on the type of forums that you're talking about they are all foul-mouthed racists?

He does get special treatment here. You of all people know very well how he dodged questions he was posed . When he was presented proof of his denial he would disappear for a while.

Are you referring to Greek forums ? I'm not .

SoM, you should spend more time reaching out to Greeks who support you, rather than chasing them off the forum like you have done in the past.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Fatso, why would he be torn apart on other forums? Do you think he gets special treatment here? Or is it because on the type of forums that you're talking about they are all foul-mouthed racists?

[fatso]

Onur said:

Attacking simple Bosnian peasants like Serbs did or agitating poor people of western Thrace like Greek fascists does,

You are truly pathetic. The trash you spew out is fucking sickening. So typical , and this is the problem with Turks today..... deniers of the most horrific murderous past.
Do you care to discuss the raping of young Kurdish girls as old as 12 years old by Turkish soldiers ?

Why are there still Turks in Thrace and very few Greeks in Constantinople ? Do you care to talk about the pogrom of 1955 ?

Most here dislike me, but are unaware of my continued support of Macedonian...you on the other hand have a lot to prove but I'm glad you found your salvation here.

You would be torn apart on any other forum in Europe.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Today in court:
Mladic: "Razumem maternji jezik srpski, razumem makedonski jezik, ostale ne razumem".

Pozdrav za General Mladic.

Here is a link to that:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15127560,00.html

He understands Macedonian because he spent his early military career with the Yugoslav army based in Skopje. Who knows, he may have had a soft spot for Macedonia, but he was, in essence, a 'greater' Serb, which means that Serbian expansionism would have held more significance to him than Macedonian independence.

[George S.]

more than likely he'll die in prison like milosevic by the time they decide as it's a long drawn out process.

[Komita]

Today in court:
Mladic: "Razumem maternji jezik srpski, razumem makedonski jezik, ostale ne razumem".

Pozdrav za General Mladic.

[Soldier of Macedon]

One nation's terrorist is another nation's hero.

While this may be true in many instances, are you able to highlight any specific examples where the actions of Mladic can be considered as 'heroic'?

In the war in Bosnia, Mladic relised and send all the Macedonian soliders back to Macedonia and that is a fact.

Can you refer us to a source? Even if this is the case, I don't think he should be applauded, because Macedonia declared independence in 1991 while the war in Bosnia began in 1992. As we would say, sho majka baraje tamu? The Macedonians should not have been there in the first place, and I suspect the protests and concerns raised by Macedonian parents to the Yugoslav authorities is the reason why they were eventually released. The interests of Macedonians were hardly a concern for Mladic.

I can give you 10s of other similar declarations by Serbian leaders about that.......

I understand that ultra-nationalist sentiment was prevalent among Serbian leaders (at least in Serbia), but did any of those declarations manifest into action? I can cite information concerning Serbian atrocities and aggression in Macedonia after WWI - can you do the same for Bosnia?

They see Bosnians as Turks in their sick minds, thats how they regard them.

You seem to be forgetting many terrible precendents that were set by your own people during the Ottoman Empire, which have had a major impact on the psyche of Balkan peoples. In the sick minds of contemporary Turks and Muslims, all Christians were 'kauri'. Although I would agree that such terminology (or mentality) no longer has a place in Balkan societies today, you need to accept the fact that Christians were oppressed by Muslims during Ottoman times. Thus, it is only natural, once freedom was obtained, that the Christians would want assert themselves in their own countries at the expense of Muslims who have treated them as second-class for 500 years. I am not trying to condone atrocities committed by either side, I am merely providing the context in which all of these sentiments transpired.

What you expect from people who still mourns the battle of Kosovo of 1300s by doing nationwide commemoration.....

See below:

http://kamilpasha.com/?p=386

As Istanbul’s municipality and governorship celebrate the 555th anniversary of the conquest of Istanbul, academics believe the significance attached to the celebrations has been increasing over the last decades due to a rise in Islamist sentiments in Turkey.

The conquest of Istanbul was not celebrated during the Ottoman period. The ceremonies first started in 1953 during the Adnan Menderes government period, said Cengiz Aktar, an academic at Bahçesehir University.

What do you expect from people who hold celebrations on probably the saddest day in Orthodox Christendom? The Serbs commemorate a defence, whereas Turks celebrate an aggression.

All i can say is; Banat was an Hungarian territory since 9th century and then it belonged to the Ottoman empire for about 300 years. There was no such a thing as Serbians or Serbia in 9th century.

But there were Slavic-speaking people who already lived there before the Hungarians came, and they were kindred with those who later came to be called Serbs. So your suggestion that Serbia has to give back Vojvodina can be argued against, as you've failed to take the above into consideration.

As for your comments about Istanbul; I don't mind if you or other orthodox people prefers to see Istanbul in an entity similar to Vatican. For example, Greeks protested in western Thrace few days ago, shouting like "Constantinople will be the capital of Greece".

That is not the same thing Onur, so I am not sure why you would want to draw such a parallel, other than the possibility that you're becoming defensive while being confronted with historical reality.

[Onur]

That's a gross misinterpretation and generalisation. On what exactly do you base that opinion?

In exile in Corfu, Pašić met with Trumbić and, in July 1918, the two men agreed that Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, including those in Bosnia, whether Muslim or not, would be united into Yugoslavia, with the king of Serbia as ruler;


Tanner M., "Croatia: A Nation Forged in War", p.116

http://www.amazon.com/Croatia-Nation-Forged-War-Second/dp/product-description/0300091257

I can give you 10s of other similar declarations by Serbian leaders about that but C`moonn SOM, do not deny this. Thats how Serbs are in general. They see Bosnians as Turks in their sick minds, thats how they regard them. They always wanted to massacre all of them and their Greek brothers supports them for this too. They are poisoned and blinded by the dogmas of their church and false education, just like Greeks. What you expect from people who still mourns the battle of Kosovo of 1300s by doing nationwide commemoration??? In such an environment, ofc they produce people like Mladic, Milosevic, not mother Teresa. If we would do the same here in Turkey for 100 years and yelling out everywhere for the genocide of Balkan Turks between 1877-1912. If our imams would indoctrinate people like "Serbs and all other orthodox killed our people in Balkan wars and expelled out our grandfathers to Anatolia" then surely we would produce 100s of mujaheddins like Mladic and the result would be far worse than what happened in Yugoslavia in 1990s but thank god, we are a secular nation and our imams cannot indoctrinate our people for nothing besides religious matters. We got a good saying for that; "You harvest what you sow", simple as that.

Careful there mate, because your country still occupies Constantinople, the historical centre of Orthodoxy. In my opinion that is way more of an injustice than the Serbs inhabiting Vojvodina, as Slavic-speaking people have always lived around the Danube region, and the Hungarians, like the Turks, are the late comers. One wonders what the opinion of people would be in Turkey and the Arab world if Mecca and Medina were occupied by Christians, or the opinion of Catholics if Rome was occupied by Muslims? I think Constantinople should be an independent entity similar to the Vatican.

SOM, do not play the "we were there at first" game as Greeks does. All i can say is; Banat was an Hungarian territory since 9th century and then it belonged to the Ottoman empire for about 300 years. There was no such a thing as Serbians or Serbia in 9th century. Great powers awarded it to the Serbs after WW-1 and then Serbs did ethnic cleansing in there by expelling out the local Hungarians.

As for your comments about Istanbul; I don't mind if you or other orthodox people prefers to see Istanbul in an entity similar to Vatican. For example, Greeks protested in western Thrace few days ago, shouting like "Constantinople will be the capital of Greece". You can be sure about that Turkish people invites them or anyone who thinks like that. They are free to try to realize that!!!

Attacking simple Bosnian peasants like Serbs did or agitating poor people of western Thrace like Greek fascists does, Thats so lame. The real Turks are in Turkey but not in Bosnia, so if they have a problem with us because of 14th century events, they should attack to us, not to the poor Bosnian peasants.

[Coolski]

It's true, so many innocent people lost their lives, and for those deaths to go in vain is extremely sad and unjust. The best thing we can do is properly recognise similar injustices that have occurred to our own victims of similar aggression and ensure that such violence never happens to us again or by us in the future. Unfortunately in the current state of Macedonian politics, we have politicians that have used these lost lives as a bargaining chip, while the murderers have a seat in parliament. When innocent lives are taken as a price for political games, it is a sad system indeed.