Bosnia: Politics and Current Events

[Onur]

No one can start a war without an army or some kind of powerful guerrilla organization. Bosnians had none of these at the start of the war and they tried to create their own army only after the war started. On the other hand, Serbians already had fully equipped army of themselves plus 1000s of orthodox mujaheddin volunteers from Greece, Russia etc.

Lets assume that you are right about a town called Dzer, Vojnik. But this is just an ordinary crime. Wars doesn't start like that in modern world, just because someone raped a woman in somewhere. If that would be the case, then there should be wars all around the world cuz about 20 woman gets raped in every 10 sec. in the world. Probably 5 rape case in every minute in USA.

Vojnik, your arguments are plain childish. So, it`s not even worth to say something to you but, nevermind!!....


Btw, i googled the name "Naser Oric" just out of curiosity and saw this;

In 2006, he was sentenced to two years' imprisonment by the Trial Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in the Netherlands for failing to prevent the deaths of five and the mistreatment of eleven Bosnian Serb detainees during the period from late 1992 to early 1993 on the basis of superior criminal responsibility.[1] He was acquitted on the other charges of wanton destruction and causing damage to civilian infrastructure beyond the realm of military necessity. On July 3, 2008, the Appeals Chamber of the ICTY reversed the Trial Chamber's conviction and acquitted Orić of all charges brought against him.[2][3]

I see that this guy has been trialed in the Trial Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) in the Netherlands and acquitted from all allegations except one case. So, he wasn't a fugitive at all and didn't escape from the court.

AND, "failing to prevent the deaths of five and the mistreatment of eleven Bosnian Serb detainees". Whatta massacre this is!!!! This surely proves that Bosnians was the real aggressors. Big bad muslim devils mistreating the Fatso`s orthodox brothers in a war!!! After reading this guy`s mistreatment to 11 Serbs, now we can surely forget the fact that Serbs executed 8000+ Bosnians in Srebrenica with a firing squad. Show us one more case like this and then we can even claim that Bosnians committed genocide to Serbs.

Hooray for Mladic, if he wouldn't do what he did in Srebrenica, then these 8000+ Bosnians would surely had mistreated 11 more Serbs, right? So, everything is justified!!!


Fatso, you Greeks better start doing a commemoration for these 11 mistreated Serbs. I know, there are at least one commemoration in every week in Greek churches to show how Greeks "suffered" under Turkish regime but you can arrange one for this too. I am sure Serbs have halos on top of their heads too, just like you Greeks. Owww, how innocent and poor people, just like Jesus christ.

[vojnik]

Doesn't it make sense then, that more Serbs have been sent to trial than Bosniaks? Can you corroborate your earlier assertion where you suggested that it was the Muslims who started the war?

The Bosnians started the war in a town called Dzer if I recall correctly where they raped Serb women killed them and children etc

If you want evidence of this or anything like that you can try search it yourself I read this and have heard this fact from many who witnesses the war first hand.

[Soldier of Macedon]

When did I suggest that Muslims started the war ?

Fatso, that question about Muslims starting the war was addressed to Vojnik, who made the statement earlier in the thread.

[fatso]

How about you stop cherry-picking comments and generalising, for a change? Individuals seem to give Turks a free pass, Bosniaks a free pass, etc, it's all a load of rubbish from people who just don't seem to read the discussions adequately. When you give our objectivity your false label of sympathy, it is difficult to accept that you aren't baised yourself. Actions speak louder than words Fatso, don't tell me you don't hate Turks or Bosniaks and then write like some disgruntled Serb. Being truly objective doesn't mean you say one little thing in support of Bosniaks (like you've done your bit for the sake of objectivity) and then start a rant about how the Serbs were hard done by. Of course they were hard done by, but the Bosniaks suffered more damage than the Serbs, at least in Bosnia.

That is one example. How about the rest of them that were listed by Grotius on an earlier post? I agree that there has been bais against the Serbs, but even if there wasn't, the number of them on trial would still be greater than the number of Bosniaks. I don't agree with how everything turned out, not during or after the war, that is why my position on this issue will remain impartial and objective.

Doesn't it make sense then, that more Serbs have been sent to trial than Bosniaks? Can you corroborate your earlier assertion where you suggested that it was the Muslims who started the war?

Ofcourse the Bosniaks sufffered more than the Serbs I'm not denying that . When did I suggest that Muslims started the war ?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Individuals on this forum seem to give the Bosniaks a pass.

How about you stop cherry-picking comments and generalising, for a change? Individuals seem to give Turks a free pass, Bosniaks a free pass, etc, it's all a load of rubbish from people who just don't seem to read the discussions adequately. When you give our objectivity your false label of sympathy, it is difficult to accept that you aren't baised yourself. Actions speak louder than words Fatso, don't tell me you don't hate Turks or Bosniaks and then write like some disgruntled Serb. Being truly objective doesn't mean you say one little thing in support of Bosniaks (like you've done your bit for the sake of objectivity) and then start a rant about how the Serbs were hard done by. Of course they were hard done by, but the Bosniaks suffered more damage than the Serbs, at least in Bosnia.

The Bosniaks who committed atrocities got off scott free... Naser Oric is a prime example.

That is one example. How about the rest of them that were listed by Grotius on an earlier post? I agree that there has been bais against the Serbs, but even if there wasn't, the number of them on trial would still be greater than the number of Bosniaks. I don't agree with how everything turned out, not during or after the war, that is why my position on this issue will remain impartial and objective.

The attrocities commited by Bosniaks and Serbs vary as does the number of deaths on both sides. In my opinion the Serbs would have killed more then the Bosniaks, but the attrocities commited would have been the same just the Serbs would have done it in a greater scale.

Doesn't it make sense then, that more Serbs have been sent to trial than Bosniaks? Can you corroborate your earlier assertion where you suggested that it was the Muslims who started the war?

[fatso]

fatso the Bosniaks endured dreadful atrocities at the hands of chetnitsi Serbs. Every soul deserves to be treated in a humane manner , I dont recall what documentary it was, but an Aussie journalist wandering around their killing fields and a schoolhouse full of skulls. Please. Seriously, enough with the defence.
I cant stand and abhor the mistreatment of defenceless children especially, you are showing how rascist you are

Julie, with all due respect. The Bosniaks who committed atrocities got off scott free... Naser Oric is a prime example.

[julie]

fatso the Bosniaks endured dreadful atrocities at the hands of chetnitsi Serbs. Every soul deserves to be treated in a humane manner , I dont recall what documentary it was, but an Aussie journalist wandering around their killing fields and a schoolhouse full of skulls. Please. Seriously, enough with the defence.
I cant stand and abhor the mistreatment of defenceless children especially, you are showing how rascist you are

[fatso]

Fatso, do you think the Bosniaks committed as much atrocities against the Serbs, as the Serbs did against the Bosniaks?

No. But. individuals like Naser Oric are prime examples of how the world turned a blind eye to the atrocities the Bosniaks committed. Serbia paid a heavy price for that war.
Individuals on this forum seem to give the Bosniaks a pass.

[vojnik]

The attrocities commited by Bosniaks and Serbs vary as does the number of deaths on both sides. In my opinion the Serbs would have killed more then the Bosniaks, but the attrocities commited would have been the same just the Serbs would have done it in a greater scale.

But that's just my opinion.....

[Vangelovski]

The real punishment would have been to leave them to rot in some remote abomination of a Balkan village:

From the inside looking out, however, the remand centre for the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia on the Dutch North Sea coast seems to be a relaxed and comfortable hothouse of creativity, a veritable university of amateur learning. There is art and sport, poetry and painting, gourmet cooking, guitars and song.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...e-scheveningen

[Soldier of Macedon]

Fatso, do you think the Bosniaks committed as much atrocities against the Serbs, as the Serbs did against the Bosniaks?

[fatso]

Grotius,

Indeed it does support my proposition that all sides committed atrocities, but what I am also saying is compare the number of Bosnians/Muslims that went to the Hague then compare the number of Serbs. How is it irrelevant who started the conflict? is it also fair that America who is fighting a war on terror in the Arab world against Muslims gives so many rights to the Muslims in the Balkan? Why must they give the Muslims in the Balkan so many privileges? I'll tell you why because it is in their own interest just like when they gave privileges to the Muslims in the Arab world to fight the Russians now those Muslims have turned on the Americans just like how one day the Muslims in the Balkan will turn on the Americans when they become powerful enough to wage war on us Orthodox Christians again.

Well said ...

[Big Bad Sven]

That's not a sample you pretty much named all of them the ones you didn't mention were found not guilty anyways. Also compare the Bosnian list with the Serbian one. It is fact that the Muslims started the war and the Serbs retaliated. The Serbs done some terrible things during the war but there was terror from both sides this is what I am trying to say is that neither are more guilty then the other they are both as guilty as each other for the horrific acts committed during the war.

Dont give a shit about "muslims vs orthoox christians" or bosniaks and serbs, but how can you say bosniaks started the war?

From my understanding the only 2 former yugoslav republics that still wanted to be in a "loose federation" with serbia/yugoslavi was macedonia and bosnia? If anything the blame should lie with both the croats and serbs, who made deals to divide bosnia amongst themselvs and thought bosniaks as notbhing more then either muslim croats or muslim serbs? What gives them the right to think and do such things?

Btw in the Sandzak region in serbia, a lot of muslims thought with serbia and are still loyal to serbia....

[Soldier of Macedon]

Indeed it does support my proposition that all sides committed atrocities, but what I am also saying is compare the number of Bosnians/Muslims that went to the Hague then compare the number of Serbs.

Compare the number of Bosniaks that died at the hands of Serbs with the number of Serbs that died at the hands of Bosniaks. Do you really think the figures are in equal proportion with each other? If not, what are the proprotions?

It is fact that the Muslims started the war and the Serbs retaliated.

Can you elaborate on the above? How exactly did the Muslims start the war?

[vojnik]

Grotius,

Indeed it does support my proposition that all sides committed atrocities, but what I am also saying is compare the number of Bosnians/Muslims that went to the Hague then compare the number of Serbs. How is it irrelevant who started the conflict? is it also fair that America who is fighting a war on terror in the Arab world against Muslims gives so many rights to the Muslims in the Balkan? Why must they give the Muslims in the Balkan so many privileges? I'll tell you why because it is in their own interest just like when they gave privileges to the Muslims in the Arab world to fight the Russians now those Muslims have turned on the Americans just like how one day the Muslims in the Balkan will turn on the Americans when they become powerful enough to wage war on us Orthodox Christians again.