Bosnia: Politics and Current Events

[Jankovska]

I think what people don't realise is that it was a fucking war and in war you don't throw flowers at each other. Onur while I agree with you that Mladic needs to be held responsible for what he did I expect that you agree that start with Clinton and A LOT of Muslim 'freedom fighters' in Bosnia should be brought to the Hague- but hold on no one is chasing them? Why? Did the Muslims not kills Srebs in Bosnia? Did they not torture, rape, murder? But we don;t hear anything about it because they are brilliant at playing the victim.
Do you thin Ahmeti should be in the Macedonian parliment or should he not be in the Hague? Or it's ok, he was a 'freedom fighter' and Muslim therefore he is a victim.
Justice is great as long as one can be very honest in seeking it.
I do not excuse what Mladic did, I never excuse murderers, I hope you all understand that. But all this people who are jumping up and down screaming with joy do not think about the rest of the war criminals that walk around freely and will never be brought to justice.
Funny how the war in Bosnia had only Serbian war criminals and not Muslims and even funnier how the Serbs killed so many and yet they are double the number of Serbs in Bosnia now. I am so sick of propaganda.

[George S.]

Jankovska you are so right in war is it wrong to defend ones country.A lot of the so called bosnians were actually volunteers from pakistan,arabia afghanistan.Also good point why are they are only after the serbian side & not the other.I would say both sides could be just as guilty of committing attrocities.I have got a feeling mladic will meet the same thing as milosevic.He'll die in prison.
An example of what was happening is aside from attrocities people were actually hiding in homes dressed in civilian clothes.If there is a war they should at least be in uniform.Also what one calls a freedom fighter is interpretted as a hero by the other side & the other side calls them terrorists??.

[Phoenix]

If there is a war they should at least be in uniform.

GS, why do we need rules of engagement or notions of a 'fair' fight, if this was the case war would become obsolete and we could settle our differences at a place like the United Nations and its toothless institutions like the ICJ...the very nature of war is to pit a superior force against a weaker one, to attack when your enemy is most vulnerable...

If I was attacked and overrun by an enemy, why the fuck should I 'play' by the 'rules'...kill every one of the motherfuckers I reckon, even in civillian clothing...

[Zarni]

This makes me think and feel sick, about the legitimate Macedonian minister and Defender who’s children will not grow up with a Dad

Mladic had a ideological believe stepped in delusion and deserves to be where he is

But our Macedonian defender is severing years in a Illegal Court for one single event on the ground defending Macedonia’s territorial Integrity from terrorists including Foreign mercenaries clambered in a isolated Village

[Onur]

I expect that you agree that start with Clinton and A LOT of Muslim 'freedom fighters' in Bosnia should be brought to the Hague- but hold on no one is chasing them?

I agree but this makes the situation more complicated cuz if you try to bring Arabian "freedom forces" to the court then you gotta get Greek and Russian orthodox mujaheddins&talibans too, who joined Serbians to be able to kill some muslims during the conflict. I mean, look at these chetnik mujahiddins, even Osama Bin Laden was looking better than these savages;
YouTube - ‪Chetniks in Grbavica, Sarajevo‬‏



As for the Mladic, i don't think they will let him speak some truths anyway and probably they will slowly poison him or give him some medication which causes a heart attack or cerebral bleeding. So, he will probably die shortly after they put him in prison and no one will remember him anymore.

If I was attacked and overrun by an enemy, why the fuck should I 'play' by the 'rules'...kill every one of the motherfuckers I reckon, even in civillian clothing...

Then you end up remaining hidden for years and then get caught to face charges for crimes against humanity. We are not living in middle-ages anymore. Serbs wanted to kill all Bosnians since the first day they gained their independence from Ottoman empire but they didn't try to realize that `till 1990s. They tried to kill Croats and Bosnians in WW-2 but they lost their only chance at that time. So, "unlucky" for them!!!

But wait, Serbian case is still not fully closed cuz they still occupy Hungarian territory called Banat. We will see what will happen about that in the future!

[Jankovska]

There were killings on both sides and yet the Serbs seem to be the only ones paying the price. That is no justice, that's bollocks and I can not be happy until everyone who needs to be brought to justice is.

[Zarni]

The Butcher of the Balkans - Slobodan Milosevic
The Butcher of Serbnica - Ratko Mladic
200,000 ethnically cleansed Serbs – nothing to tell
Thousands of Serbs/Croats murdered by Bosnian Muslim Islamists – nothing to tell
Thousands of non-Albanians ethnically cleansed and murdered in Kosovo -nothing to tell

See the pattern.

[Onur]

The butcher of the Jews - Hitler
The butcher of the French - Germans
10.000s of German civilians, women and children murdered by Russians in Germany - nothing to tell
Divided Germany by the communists - nothing to tell

Do you know why we always have this pattern? Because Bosnians didn't say something like "we gonna muslimize all Yugoslavia and get the revenge of Serbian regime" or it wasn't the Croats who fought for "Greater Croatia".

The aggressors was Serbs and it was them who said "we gonna take the revenge of 14th century Turkish regime by killing Bosnians" and it was them again who attacked both Bosnians and Croats in the name of "Greater Serbia".

[Zarni]

Actually it was lunatics like Mlatic and Milosovich that saw the Bosnian Independence call which did not engage the Bosnian Serb Community and when the West granted through recognition (only Macedonia satisfied the criteria for international Independence) as a Turkish Empire Yolk revenge campaign rather than an ill defined move by the Croat/Muslim alliance to isolate Serbs.

Bosnian Serbs at the time never had Greater Serbia on their minds they felt they were not approached on how leaving the Yogoslav Federation impacted thier lives as citizens. It was the debris of what remained of Yugoslavia that did (not at first mind you the speech Milosovich gave in Kosovo in 1989 was entirely skewed by the West as an example). The manoeuvres and decisions he then made after 1990 and then over a decade could have been smarter more composed but they were not.

So you are right Onur you just need to define it a little more, the Serbs are not to be squarely blamed on all and everything that transcribed in the Balkans with one brush stroke. Offcourse as the Bosnian War progressed Muslims seeked complete isolation even of the Croats and a Centralised Bosnian all to their own.

I like how this commentry http://www.spiked-online.com/index.p...article/10559/ defines it all. I aint siding with the Serbs or anyone Srebrenica happened no doubt just as Serbs were sipping coffee with Duth peackeepers too. Frankly the big picture is far depper then just blame, black and white the West have a llot of questions to answer but I doubt anyone will ask them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I agree but this makes the situation more complicated cuz if you try to bring Arabian "freedom forces" to the court then you gotta get Greek and Russian orthodox mujaheddins&talibans too, who joined Serbians to be able to kill some muslims during the conflict.

You make a fair point there, do we know what the ratio was between each side, in terms of who received most external support?

Serbs wanted to kill all Bosnians since the first day they gained their independence from Ottoman empire but they didn't try to realize that `till 1990s.

That's a gross misinterpretation and generalisation. On what exactly do you base that opinion? Do you know how Bosnia gained independence from the Ottoman Empire?

They tried to kill Croats and Bosnians in WW-2 but they lost their only chance at that time. So, "unlucky" for them!!!

Onur, you need to start looking at both sides of the picture, because your opinions are heavily baised against the Serbs. Of course they deserve criticism for certain actions, but neither the Croats or the Bosniaks are without blame either. In fact, although they were all killing each other, the Croats and Bosniaks probably did more harm to the Serbs in Bosnia than the other way around during WWII.

But wait, Serbian case is still not fully closed cuz they still occupy Hungarian territory called Banat.

Careful there mate, because your country still occupies Constantinople, the historical centre of Orthodoxy. In my opinion that is way more of an injustice than the Serbs inhabiting Vojvodina, as Slavic-speaking people have always lived around the Danube region, and the Hungarians, like the Turks, are the late comers. One wonders what the opinion of people would be in Turkey and the Arab world if Mecca and Medina were occupied by Christians, or the opinion of Catholics if Rome was occupied by Muslims? I think Constantinople should be an independent entity similar to the Vatican.

With regard to Mladic, to be honest, as a Macedonian, I am sick of some dumb Macedonians thinking that people like him, Arkan and Milosevic were some sort of 'heroes' just because they are Orthodox Christians and we had/have a common enemy in Albanian extremism. They did nothing for us, and were the conditions more favourable (less resistance in Croatia and Bosnia, more Serbs in Macedonia, etc) for them they would have tried to swallow up Macedonia also, without a doubt. I do wish that Orthodox Christians were more united, but my opinion has always been the same - I am a Macedonian, first and foremost. If another Orthodox Christian cannot bring themselves to respect my identity, then the religious connection between us also means nothing - which is ironic, because it should be the religion which teaches them tolerance of others.

[vojnik]

i agree with Jankovska on this one.

I am sick to death about hearing how terrible the Serbs were in the war. I am not saying the Serbs were angels but the arrest of every Serbian and Croatian nationalist from the war and no Bosnian is an outrage. Where is the logic in that? They let Albanian nationalists like Ahmeti be members of parliament in a country he doesn't even belong in. Ahmeti a man that is upfront about his goals for a greater Albania a man who has spent time in jail for his ultra-nationalistic extremist views on the world. The man has been diagnosed with schizophrenia, was the main perpetrator of the 2001 conflict killing Macedonian nationals and the ICTFY decides not the press charges and leaves this mental case to run free. I can not find one Bosnian or Albanian Muslim that has faced charges in the ICJ, why be so hypocritcal.

I guess what I am trying to say is if you are going to arrest every Serb and Croatian that proved to be heavily involved in the war you need to also arrest the Albanian and and Bosnian Muslim people because they are the cause of the war. It was the Bosnian Muslims who sided with Hitler in World War II created one of the elite Nazi bands a fact that has been hidden by the west because they gave backing to them.

Excuse any grammatical or and errors associated with literacy I wrote this in my fury.

[Coolski]

With regard to Mladic, to be honest, as a Macedonian, I am sick of some dumb Macedonians thinking that people like him, Arkan and Milosevic were some sort of 'heroes' just because they are Orthodox Christians and we had/have a common enemy in Albanian extremism. They did nothing for us, and were the conditions more favourable (less resistance in Croatia and Bosnia, more Serbs in Macedonia, etc) for them they would have tried to swallow up Macedonia also, without a doubt. I do wish that Orthodox Christians were more united, but my opinion has always been the same - I am a Macedonian, first and foremost. If another Orthodox Christian cannot bring themselves to respect my identity, then the religious connection between us also means nothing - which is ironic, because it should be the religion which teaches them tolerance of others.

I totally agree SoM!!

Yes, the Serbs as a nation was the least hostile to us in the past 50 years or so, however as far as i'm aware the Serb generals of the 1990s wars represented a type of nationalism pre-WWII that did not look upon Macedonia or Macedonians favourably.

Some of the greatest harm against Macedonians in the past century has been done by orthodox christian neighbours of ours, and to defend their perspective about this particular period of history beyond an objective analysis devalues our self-respect. I can definitely see that there is an imbalance pointed against Serbs re: war trials, however beyond recognising this injustice, I don't see why we should fight tooth and nail to defend them as if they were our own. Their own people haven't even done that.

[Risto the Great]

Their own people haven't even done that.

That appears to be the job of simple-minded Macedonians nowadays. Usually SDSM supporters it would seem.

[Jankovska]

I totally agree SoM!!

Yes, the Serbs as a nation was the least hostile to us in the past 50 years or so, however as far as i'm aware the Serb generals of the 1990s wars represented a type of nationalism pre-WWII that did not look upon Macedonia or Macedonians favourably.

Some of the greatest harm against Macedonians in the past century has been done by orthodox christian neighbours of ours, and to defend their perspective about this particular period of history beyond an objective analysis devalues our self-respect. I can definitely see that there is an imbalance pointed against Serbs re: war trials, however beyond recognising this injustice, I don't see why we should fight tooth and nail to defend them as if they were our own. Their own people haven't even done that.

I agree and we should not be showing any support for murderers. I hae no excuses about what Mladic and Karadzic did and there can be none, I just think that this is no justice. Serbs lost their lifes too, their homes, families were broken, does anyone speak about those victims?
It's the same situation in Macedonia, no one speaks about our victims of the war but the Albanian and how they were freedom fighters. In few years time when it kicks off again if we have a general like Mladic who will go in and start killing we will be seen as the big bad wolf but if we don't than we lose our country to hot heads who have nothing human in them.One nation's terrorist is another nation's hero. Shame in the whole thing only inocent people suffer.

PS In the war in Bosnia, Mladic relised and send all the Macedonian soliders back to Macedonia and that is a fact.

[Coolski]

It's true, so many innocent people lost their lives, and for those deaths to go in vain is extremely sad and unjust. The best thing we can do is properly recognise similar injustices that have occurred to our own victims of similar aggression and ensure that such violence never happens to us again or by us in the future. Unfortunately in the current state of Macedonian politics, we have politicians that have used these lost lives as a bargaining chip, while the murderers have a seat in parliament. When innocent lives are taken as a price for political games, it is a sad system indeed.