Russia, Ukraine and the West

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  • Vangelovski
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 8533

    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
    Is that what Ukraine winning looks like...?
    Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
    It's what USA winning looks like. (No matter the outcome in Ukraine)
    Who, according to you, is allowed to invest in Ukraine? Do they need to be backed by the Kremlin?
    If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

    The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15660

      Anyone is allowed.
      It doesn't always have to be the USA though.
      If you can't see that as compromised sovereignty, then I think you might have some definitional problems.

      In particular, the agreement signed on November 10, 2022 in Washington, DC, provides that BlackRock’s Financial Markets Advisory will consult the Ministry of Economy on creation of a roadmap for the implementation of an investment platform, which will primarily attract private capital. This includes the structure of the platform, its mandate and governance.
      If Macedonia allowed an American corporation to handle its "governance" on such critical matters, you would agree with me about the disgraceful lack of sovereignty. But you just can't seem to help yourself here. The paint is dry, you can leave the corner you've painted yourself into. Come give me a hug.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        Difficult to verify. Google warned me the web page was not secure. Their oh so subtle censorship.
        Some warm fuzzy feelings following:
        The Ukrainian people have not only been quite literally robbed of the lands their ancestors gave their lives for, but now they're effectively dying in battle to make sure this theft continues unabated.



        US corporations own around 30% of Ukrainian arable land
        Drago Bosnic, independent geopolitical and military analyst

        The destruction and plunder of Ukraine have been old news for quite some time now, unfortunately. However, the media and the public have only scratched the surface of the sheer scale of this process. With the territory of modern-day Ukraine being the breadbasket of Europe (and beyond) for millennia, the country has been the target of various agricultural corporations, particularly those originating in the political West. In recent years, especially after the Neo-Nazi coup in 2014, foreign corporations acquired Ukrainian fields, depriving the country of any control over its food exports and even domestic food supply.

        Corporations such as "Cargill", "DuPont" and "Monsanto" (which is formally a German-Australian company, but essentially an American one) are among the most prominent owners of Ukrainian arable land. In addition, corporations like "Vanguard", "Blackrock" and "Blackstone" are among the largest shareholders in the aforementioned agricultural giants, owning trillions in assets. For instance, "Blackrock" is a fund that manages assets worth over $10 trillion, with "Vanguard" controlling at least six and "Blackstone" managing up to $1 trillion. Together, the three massive US multinational corporations ("Cargill", "DuPont" and "Monsanto") own over 17 million hectares of Ukraine's arable land.

        In comparison, the whole of Italy has 16.7 million hectares of agricultural land. In short, the three American corporations own more usable agricultural land in Ukraine than what the whole country of Italy has. The entire area of Ukraine is approximately 600,000 square km. Out of that land area, 170,000 square km have been acquired by foreign corporations, the vast majority Western, particularly those based in or financed by the US. Since the new law on the sale of agricultural land passed by the Kiev regime entered into full force approximately one year ago, to this day, the three large multinational consortia financed with US capital have acquired well over a quarter of Ukrainian arable land. A report by the Australian National Review states that the three US corporations managed to acquire 17 out of the 62 million hectares of agricultural land in less than a year. This made it possible for them to control 28% of the total arable land in Ukraine.

        After the law on the sale of agricultural land was passed and went into effect on July 1, 2021, the cost per hectare was approximately $2.500, but soon soared up to $10.000. Up to that point, a piece of land larger than two hectares could only be rented by foreigners. But, after the Neo-Nazi junta took power, combined with a steady price increase for arable land, the law was changed and the two-decades-long moratorium on the sale of agricultural land to foreigners was lifted. Prior to this decision, governments were reluctant to allow it, as the move was always seen as extremely unpopular with the Ukrainian people. During his presidential campaign, Vladimir Zelensky said that he planned to organize a national referendum to resolve this issue "once and for all". However, no such vote was ever cast.

        An April 2021 report by the International Monetary Fund (IMF), one of the largest foreign creditors of the Kiev regime, made the lifting of the moratorium a condition for its then-loan package and claimed that economic output would allegedly grow from 6% to more than 12% over the next decade, depending on how the reform is implemented. Despite widespread opposition to lifting the ban on land sales, the excuse was found in the fact that too much time had passed without the Rada (Parliament) establishing a transparent mechanism for the sale of land, which was one of the provisions of the 2001 law.

        In one of the public opinion polls from the time of discussions on lifting the moratorium, it was clear that at least 81% of respondents were against the sale of land to foreigners, while only 13% supported it. As many as two-thirds of respondents believed that a decision of such importance for the state should have been made after a referendum. Nearly 60% believed that agricultural land should be owned by the state, as is the case in Canada or Israel.

        Official statistics in 2021 indicated that approximately 30% of the 43.6 million Ukrainians lived in rural areas. According to data from the US Department of Commerce and the World Bank, the agricultural industry in Ukraine employs more than 14% of the workforce, while agricultural products form the largest share of Ukraine's exports. During the Soviet era, farms were collectivized and owned by the state. After the collapse of the USSR, the land was distributed to the employees who worked on state farms. However, the legal aspects of such a transfer were never fully regulated, much less implemented. Soon followed a brief period during which the sale of land to foreigners was allowed, but then, the 2001 moratorium was passed.

        The plunder of Ukraine's arable land also perfectly explains the sudden "concern" of the political West and its numerous satellite states for the export of grains and other food commodities from the country, all under the convenient pretext of "feeding the world". In reality, the governments in the political West were worried about the profits of their financial backers, most of whom are massive multinational corporations whose main drive is profit. Thus, the Ukrainian people have not only been quite literally robbed of the lands their ancestors gave their lives for, but now they're effectively dying in battle to make sure this theft continues unabated.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Vangelovski
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 8533

          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
          Difficult to verify. Google warned me the web page was not secure. Their oh so subtle censorship.
          Some warm fuzzy feelings following:
          https://infobrics.org/post/36302/
          Its actually pretty easy to verify. You just need to go beyond your usual tin foil hat websites.

          Drago Bosnic, independent geopolitical and military analyst
          He's an independent analyst. Must be good. Can't be bought with a salary...or maybe no one's offering money for his BS.

          A report by the Australian National Review states that the three US corporations managed to acquire 17 out of the 62 million hectares of agricultural land in less than a year. This made it possible for them to control 28% of the total arable land in Ukraine.
          I know Drago is an independent analyst and ANR is an independent media site, but according to the World Bank (and therefore Ukraine, because each country self-reports), Ukraine only has 32.9 million hectares of arable land (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...A?locations=UA). Not 62 million hectares. Maybe Drago made a typo? Either way, doesn't do much for his credibility. I believe the Ukrainian Government figure of how much arable land Ukraine has over Drago Bosnic's estimation.

          According to the Land Matrix, only 3.3 million hectares of Ukranian land is controlled by foreign investors. That is 10 per cent in total. Not 30% owned by American corporations alone. https://landmatrix.org/resources/ukr...ign-investors/

          Neo-Nazi junta
          Only someone with a name like Drago Bosnic could claim that a Jewish comedian could be a neo-Nazi running a Nazi regime. Maybe Drago Bosnic was once a comedian?

          In particular, the agreement signed on November 10, 2022 in Washington, DC, provides that BlackRock’s Financial Markets Advisory will consult the Ministry of Economy on creation of a roadmap for the implementation of an investment platform, which will primarily attract private capital. This includes the structure of the platform, its mandate and governance.
          Sounds like their building an investment website or app. From what from I can tell, the Ukrainian Government hired a consultant to advise on attracting foreign investment and building an associated platform for investors to go through.

          Government's all over the world hire private sector consultants every single day. Nothing here says that this consultant will have any decision-making power. What it does say is they're advising on the structure, mandate and governance of the platform. There's a lack of detail, but I'm guessing there will be some sort of board or commission to oversee foreign investments and the consultant is advising on the structure, mandate and governance of this board or commission. The Australian, state and territory governments are always brining in private sector consultants as independent advisors when establishing governance structures for various entities, committees, commissions etc. They even hire private sector lawyers. If they didn't, you'd bitch and complain that government wasn't transparent and accountable...oh wait, you do. You like to have your cake and eat it.

          You're constantly posting random shit you find on the internet. Maybe you should take some time to fact check it yourself.
          Last edited by Vangelovski; 11-15-2022, 07:55 AM.
          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            Breaking: Senior U.S. intelligence official says Russian missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, killing 2 people - AP

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15660

              Still no hug, Vangelovski?
              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              Its actually pretty easy to verify. You just need to go beyond your usual tin foil hat websites.

              He's an independent analyst. Must be good. Can't be bought with a salary...or maybe no one's offering money for his BS.

              I know Drago is an independent analyst and ANR is an independent media site, but according to the World Bank (and therefore Ukraine, because each country self-reports), Ukraine only has 32.9 million hectares of arable land (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...A?locations=UA). Not 62 million hectares. Maybe Drago made a typo? Either way, doesn't do much for his credibility. I believe the Ukrainian Government figure of how much arable land Ukraine has over Drago Bosnic's estimation.

              According to the Land Matrix, only 3.3 million hectares of Ukranian land is controlled by foreign investors. That is 10 per cent in total. Not 30% owned by American corporations alone. https://landmatrix.org/resources/ukr...ign-investors/
              I'm saying someone stole your house and you're worried about how big it is.

              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
              Only someone with a name like Drago Bosnic could claim that a Jewish comedian could be a neo-Nazi running a Nazi regime. Maybe Drago Bosnic was once a comedian?
              You don't do funny. I do. There's a knack to it. Funnier is the denial about neo-nazi links to the Ukraine government.

              Notwithstanding any of that, would the eager performers at www.understandingwar.org be any less motivated to conduct their own agendas?


              Sounds like their building an investment website or app. From what from I can tell, the Ukrainian Government hired a consultant to advise on attracting foreign investment and building an associated platform for investors to go through.

              Government's all over the world hire private sector consultants every single day. Nothing here says that this consultant will have any decision-making power. What it does say is they're advising on the structure, mandate and governance of the platform. There's a lack of detail, but I'm guessing there will be some sort of board or commission to oversee foreign investments and the consultant is advising on the structure, mandate and governance of this board or commission. The Australian, state and territory governments are always brining in private sector consultants as independent advisors when establishing governance structures for various entities, committees, commissions etc. They even hire private sector lawyers. If they didn't, you'd bitch and complain that government wasn't transparent and accountable...oh wait, you do. You like to have your cake and eat it.
              You must have missed the part where it is a corporation from the USA who will be handling all this. Thanks for your guesses though. You're a trusting soul. You're just making excuses now. I'm starting to think you wouldn't know sovereignty even if an American was signing your payroll cheques.

              And when I'm talking about Blackrock, it is one of those corporations with a noose around the UN's neck. You know, that stuff you had no idea about a couple of weeks ago. I've replaced my tin foil hat with a titanium hat in anticipation - quality Russian titanium.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Vangelovski
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 8533

                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                I'm saying someone stole your house and you're worried about how big it is.
                You don't have any evidence that anyone stole anything. Just the ramblings of some random guy on the internet.

                You don't do funny. I do. There's a knack to it. Funnier is the denial about neo-nazi links to the Ukraine government.
                Sure.

                You must have missed the part where it is a corporation from the USA who will be handling all this.
                And? Would you have objected to a Sudanese corporation? A Russian one? A Chinese one? A German one? Or just objecting to an American one?

                Thanks for your guesses though. You're a trusting soul. You're just making excuses now. I'm starting to think you wouldn't know sovereignty even if an American was signing your payroll cheques.
                The only educated guess I made was that there will be some sort of board or commission overseeing the investment platform for foreign investment. That's pretty standard. Every country has one. Why wouldn't Ukraine? Nothing in that announcement even remotely suggests that Blackrock will have a decision-making role over anything.

                And when I'm talking about Blackrock, it is one of those corporations with a noose around the UN's neck. You know, that stuff you had no idea about a couple of weeks ago. I've replaced my tin foil hat with a titanium hat in anticipation - quality Russian titanium.
                I haven't looked any further into that, but judging from the crap you post on here I'm thinking its more tin foil hat stuff. I also fact-checked the Russian titanium crap you posted further back for you. Maybe you missed it. You were wrong again.
                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15660

                  Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                  I haven't looked any further into that, but judging from the crap you post on here I'm thinking its more tin foil hat stuff. I also fact-checked the Russian titanium crap you posted further back for you. Maybe you missed it. You were wrong again.
                  I think you're barely thinking.

                  But maybe it's nothing. Go and ask Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab at the G20 to clarify the WEF position. Let me know who voted them in while you're at it.

                  Gates is American, so that makes it all good. You definitely wouldn't question his agenda, would you? If only we were all into his brand of philanthropy.
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                    The only educated guess I made was that there will be some sort of board or commission overseeing the investment platform for foreign investment. That's pretty standard. Every country has one. Why wouldn't Ukraine? Nothing in that announcement even remotely suggests that Blackrock will have a decision-making role over anything.
                    You chose not to compare Macedonia's lack of sovereignty with that of Ukraine. The USA is clearly in control of Macedonia. What naive drug induced expedition makes you believe Ukraine is any better in this regard?
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Phoenix
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 4671

                      Originally posted by Carlin View Post
                      Breaking: Senior U.S. intelligence official says Russian missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, killing 2 people - AP
                      Premature speculation…on the back of US administration & Polish administration commentary not pointing the finger at Russia and conversely the Baltic states and Zelensky screaming Article 5 from the rooftops would suggest a Ukrainian air defense malfunction.

                      Comment

                      • Vangelovski
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 8533

                        Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                        Premature speculation…on the back of US administration & Polish administration commentary not pointing the finger at Russia and conversely the Baltic states and Zelensky screaming Article 5 from the rooftops would suggest a Ukrainian air defense malfunction.
                        Whether it was Russian or Ukrainian, I'm sure it wasn't intentional. But I'm also sure it will be used to maximum effect against Russia.
                        If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                        The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                        Comment

                        • Vangelovski
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 8533

                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          I think you're barely thinking.

                          But maybe it's nothing. Go and ask Bill Gates and Klaus Schwab at the G20 to clarify the WEF position. Let me know who voted them in while you're at it.

                          Gates is American, so that makes it all good. You definitely wouldn't question his agenda, would you? If only we were all into his brand of philanthropy.
                          I'm not saying you're wrong, but judging from the standard of your posts, I'm not assuming you're right either.

                          Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                          You chose not to compare Macedonia's lack of sovereignty with that of Ukraine. The USA is clearly in control of Macedonia. What naive drug induced expedition makes you believe Ukraine is any better in this regard?
                          Macedonia lost its sovereignty because that's how the Macedonian people like it. Not because some private company was hired to build an app or bought some farmland. I wouldn't say the US is in control of Macedonia, I'd say its whoever happens to fly in on any given day. Sometimes its Madagascar.

                          But going by your logic, if the Australian Government were to hire a private consultancy firm from China, that would automatically mean China is in control of Australia. But what about the thousands of other international companies that provide goods and services to our federal and state governments? Which one is in control? Just the American ones? Or just the ones that tickle your personal fancy? And what are you saying exactly - that governments pay private companies to control the country??

                          What about the approximately 9 million hectares of Australian farmland owned by Chinese companies? Does that mean they control Australia?

                          At the end of the day, you're just talking shit. It's easy to repost random crap from random guys on random internet sites. Why don't you try providing a coherent argument supported by some actual evidence?
                          Last edited by Vangelovski; 11-15-2022, 10:17 PM.
                          If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                          The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15660

                            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                            Premature speculation…on the back of US administration & Polish administration commentary not pointing the finger at Russia and conversely the Baltic states and Zelensky screaming Article 5 from the rooftops would suggest a Ukrainian air defense malfunction.
                            For what it's worth:



                            So what crashed in the village of Przewodów, Poland today?

                            With the cooperation of
                            @blueboy1969
                            we analyzed the available photos of fragments and came to a clear conclusion that they belong to the 48D6 motor of the 5V55-series missile of the S-300 AD system- a Ukrainian one.
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Phoenix
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 4671

                              Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                              Whether it was Russian or Ukrainian, I'm sure it wasn't intentional. But I'm also sure it will be used to maximum effect against Russia.
                              Not too much adds up...

                              If the reporting is correct that it was an S300, they have a very limited operating range <200km (I think)...which would put them out of range of Poland if fired from Russia/Russian held territory.

                              The S300 is a surface-to-air defence system and wouldn't be used in a surface-to-surface role (at least highly unlikely to be used that way).

                              When you consider the missile hit a farm (sadly killed two people) it would appear to be high risk/low reward endeavour for the Russians if they were trying to get a response from NATO and potentially invoke an Article 5 response when the Russians could simply send a hypersonic missile to take out the NATO HQ in Brussels.

                              The Ukrainian S300's are Soviet era systems and have been poorly maintained, a recipe for disaster and not the first time in this conflict that they fucked-up.

                              Then take a look at who is screaming the loudest, the usual antagonists...Zelensky, the Baltics, some Poles and the Brits.

                              And finally, didn't the Russians run out of missiles, like in early March...?

                              On the contrary, the Russians escalated their bombing of Ukraine with missiles and drones, a possible precursor to ramping up their winter offensive, Ukrainian air defences were stretched and overwhelmed leading to accidents such as this but what better way to garner sympathy from your western benefactors than to demonise those pesky Russians.
                              Last edited by Phoenix; 11-15-2022, 11:17 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Risto the Great
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 15660

                                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                                And what are you saying exactly - that governments pay private companies to control the country??
                                I'm saying companies pay governments to control countries. You'll come round.

                                Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
                                At the end of the day, you're just talking shit. It's easy to repost random crap from random guys on random internet sites. Why don't you try providing a coherent argument supported by some actual evidence?
                                I'll try to post random crap from mainstream media in the future. But it's way too random. How much truth are you actually looking for though?

                                p.s. Russia was supplying over 40% of aircraft titanium. Nobody messed with that supply chain. I couldn't care less about Russia or Ukraine. But I found it interesting that nothing interfered with business continuing. And nothing interfered with money still going into Ukraine ... except FTX

                                Meanwhile you have some notion of Zelenskyy Churchill giving the V for victory with a cigar in his mouth. It's cute. But it only works with the cocaine he is on.
                                Risto the Great
                                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                                Comment

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