Islamist Terrorism in the West

[Risto the Great]

From a Christians perspective we are all Gods children, we do not kill Gods children, nor do we judge Gods children.

But don't try to tell me Christians don't judge.

When did I say they don't judge? Risto. Please tell me you're just fucking with me, right?

Seriously? Do you have Alzheimers?

Separate question while we are at it. You seem to be pro Orthodox and pro Christian. Do you kiss icons Nikolaj?

People do, I don't because i'm too hygienic. It is to be expected though, it is very relevant to the topic isn't it? No. It is relevant to your agenda though, to splur out your inaccurate insults. Go ahead Risto, go ahead boy.

I actually do have an agenda on this. You're right. I think any genuine Christian will be disgusted with the idea of kissing icons. The false idol stuff, you know. But, guess what, (and here is the rub), I reckon it is great if it gives comfort to people. It all falls down when the black and white (line by line biblical types) dogmatic brigade can't be honest with themselves and the people around them about their true beliefs and how they depart from their own culture.

I haven't been a boy for ages Nikolaj. You would know that because I am not hiding my identity. But clearly you see my youthful outlook and must know of my youthful vigour. Thank you.

[Risto the Great]

This is not to say you cannot live a great life without Christianity. I am just saying you can live an advanced, non-limiting life with Christianity too.

That is great to hear. Because we're all human beings and can't deny that we are indeed connected on one level or another. My thoughts. I wouldn't think being bogged down by a fundamentalist Christian mentality would be a major burden for 99.9% of the time. So we aren't that far apart.

[Vangelovski]

1) All Muslims are not terrorists........But all terrorists are Muslims

Seeing as RtG got his knickers in a knot over this statement, I thought I'd reread Bill77's original post. If people read this honestly and applied the same standards they apply to their own posts, no one would seriously take this as anything more than exaggeration - and everyone here is guilty of that, especially RtG who doesn't do anything but exaggerate.

Bill77 even clarified it in his next post, so I'm not sure why RtG keeps jumping down his throat...oh that's right, Bill77 is a Christian.

RtG claims that its so anyone casually reading the forum does not think that its the official position of the MTO. What utter bullshit. The MTO does not officially exist as a registered association anymore because RtG knocked it out with his hissy fit a few months ago. He knows it and most here know it. So an organisation that does not exist cannot have an official policy.

Rather, RtG is just using another dumbarse excuse to attack Christians and that answers why he keeps overlooking BBS's comments about Muslims being either dogs or cowards. BBS, love the fella, is an atheist and naturally a great guy in RtG's books. But according to RtG's logic, the MTO, which no longer exists as a registered organisation thanks to him, might look like it supports those comments unless he personally refutes them...and yet he refuses to do so even though BBS has not clarified them any further!

[Philosopher]

There are many interesting sides to this story.

Here is one.

If this attack occurred in Macedonia, whether by Albanians or ISIS, it never would have made any international headlines. And if it did, it would be a one liner on the news.

Substitute "Macedonia" for a number of other countries, and you will have the same result.

So the lesson from this is that some people are more valuable than others, and some nations and causes are more valuables than others.

Here is another.

Freedom of speech in France is a bit of a misnomer, so this circus about free speech recently is a bit of a hyperbole.

This is particularly pronounced, as anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim free speech is popular, but the same use of free speech against all members of the French population is not applicable.

[Risto the Great]

So the lesson from this is that some people are more valuable than others, and some nations and causes are more valuables than others.

Without a doubt.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Why would I assume anyone is a Christian? Should I also assume they are free market capitalists, conservative and pro-gun? Most Macedonians I know are atheists - they identify as Orthodox purely for cultural/political purposes as opposed to actually believing in God and accepting Jesus as their saviour. How many Macedonians do you know that have accepted Christ? Do you just assume that they have? Or are you just equating cultural Christianity with a living faith?

Do you believe RtG when he says he knew I was a Christian before I joined the forum? That would be amazing. Perhaps he received prophecy from his god. I say this because my join date on the forum is September 2008 (I'll take that as being accurate, though I don't recall the exact date). Again, while I don't recall the exact date, I believe that I accepted Jesus sometime after that.

I was just curious, there was no particular agenda behind my question. I agree that a lot of Macedonians embrace the cultural side of the religion moreso, and I'd probably throw myself into that category.

I didn't know that you accepted Jesus as your lord and saviour in your adulthood. This may be leaning on the personal side a little too much, but what made you make that decision? Did it just click, or was there a significant event in your life that made you re-evaluate your faith? You're not obliged to answer that if you don't want to.

[EgejskaMakedonia]

Here's the cover of the next issue of Charlie Hebdo to be released.



It depicts Prophet Muhammed crying, with the title 'All is Forgiven.'

I know that they are trying to make a stance, demonstrating that they will not be silenced, nor will freedom of speech in France be undermined...but this kind of tit-for-tat approach doesn't quite sit right with me. If they want to make fun of something in response to the recent attacks, it should be aimed at the extremists, not the entire Islam population.

I was listening to a radio broadcast Monday morning, and double standards was mentioned. Apparently (and my facts might be slightly off here since I was still half asleep) a few years ago a Charlie Hebdo cartoonist/journalist was fired for an 'anti-Semitic' piece. Strange for an organisation that pushes the boundaries of political correctness through the veil of 'free speech.'

Philosopher summed it up nicely:

This is particularly pronounced, as anti-Islamic and anti-Muslim free speech is popular, but the same use of free speech against all members of the French population is not applicable.

If we saw people posting/publishing cartoons like those displayed in Charlie Hebdo, we'd probably think they are outright pricks...while obviously respecting their right to free speech (although I'd argue that elements of free speech should not apply to racial vilification and some other areas). Yet, Charlie Hebdo is now apparently an angel and the turbine that propels free speech and democracy in the free world. Most people would see their work as 'wrong' in the same way that we may say 'Oh such and such is wrong' but we still accept its' presence. This event, as tragic as it is, seems to have warped our sense of 'right' and 'wrong,' to the point where they are now seen as being clearly in the 'right.'

Hopefully people understand what I'm getting at. If that didn't make much sense let me know and I'll do my best to explain it again.

[Vangelovski]

I was just curious, there was no particular agenda behind my question. I agree that a lot of Macedonians embrace the cultural side of the religion moreso, and I'd probably throw myself into that category.

I didn't know that you accepted Jesus as your lord and saviour in your adulthood. This may be leaning on the personal side a little too much, but what made you make that decision? Did it just click, or was there a significant event in your life that made you re-evaluate your faith? You're not obliged to answer that if you don't want to.

Hi EM, I know there was no agenda behind you're question - sorry if my response sounded like I thought you had one. I was just trying to make a point.

I was 29 when I came to faith. You could say there were a whole serious of events over a number of years leading up to my decision to accept Christ. By 29, however, I was drowning in my sins, but I didn't really accept that I was a sinner. And while I knew I was living a life that could be categorised as immoral by any standards (let alone the 10 commandments) and I did believe in God (though obviously I did not accept Him, trust Him or allow Him to rule in my life) I rationalised everything in my own mind and basically just made excuses as to why it was ok. But my life was in shambles and as I saw it, everything was just "unfair".

Then one day, someone loved me enough to give me a small booklet to read and it just opened my eyes. God had been calling me my entire life, but I wouldn't listen to Him. And while He began calling me with a whisper, it ended with Him breaking down my door and allowing my world to crash down all around me. And I thank Him for that everyday. He allowed me to go through all those trials and hardships, not because He had it in for me, but because He loved me and He knew that was the only way to get my attention. He showed me my sin and helped me to realise what that meant. And he showed me how I could be healed - by committing myself to Christ and relying on His divine strength and wisdom and power rather than my useless mortal foolishness. And I did that and the truth has set me free.

[Thorvald]

Doesn't this terror attack not proof that islam and European values are opposite to each other? I say so...

[Risto the Great]

It depicts Prophet Muhammed crying, with the title 'All is Forgiven.'

I know that they are trying to make a stance, demonstrating that they will not be silenced, nor will freedom of speech in France be undermined...but this kind of tit-for-tat approach doesn't quite sit right with me. If they want to make fun of something in response to the recent attacks, it should be aimed at the extremists, not the entire Islam population.

I actually like it. I think that coming from a victim's perspective, it takes on a whole new dimension.

Disappointed to read about the sacking of one of their writers for something deemed anti-semitic. I detest the double standards and it has diluted my emotions about the organisation somewhat.

[Nikolaj]

Risto not arguing on this and the other stuff like I said earlier but I would just like to clarify one thing. When I said we do not judge Gods children, it was in reference to the ideology as I meant it in principle. Only someone with the maturity of a 12 year old would push what you thought I implied.

Like I said though, I will get back onto the threads actual topic.

[Risto the Great]

Risto not arguing on this and the other stuff like I said earlier but I would just like to clarify one thing. When I said we do not judge Gods children, it was in reference to the ideology as I meant it in principle. Only someone with the maturity of a 12 year old would push what you thought I implied.

Now you are telling me about your Christian ideology that only works in principle but not in reality. Please stop talking to me about religion, your version is starting to sound like a bad LSD trip.

[Nikolaj]

Yes Risto, improvement is not a reality. Your only proving you haven't understood a single thing, no one is perfect, period, because of this Christianity is flawed, isn't it?

I was linked this interesting video. 'Charlie Hebdo Shootings - Censored Video'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJEvlKKm6og

[Vangelovski]

RtG,

For the love of the forum - do something! Casual readers are coming on and thinking that the MTO believes muslims are either dogs or cowards. If you don't condemn such comments what will happen?

Come on RtG, do something! You yourself said this:

I was refuting his statement about all terrorists being Muslim. I'd hate people thinking this was a Christian fundamentalist forum.

and then this:

I wanted to emphatically reject the statement that all terrorists are muslim. It brings the forum into disrepute and is utterly distasteful in my opinion. If nobody rejected your statement, then MTO would be regarded as believing it in my opinion. Not much different from the White Supremacy sites or whatever.

So what are you waiting for you peaceful, tolerant man? Why are you letting such comments go unchecked? If you don't reject them, the forum will be brought into disrepute!

[Risto the Great]

BBS, I know a muslim dude who thinks the terrorists are fuckwits. I also saw the OiC call the idiots in Paris terrorists. So clearly not all muslims are dogs or cowards.

I'd still hate for people to think this was a Christian fundamentalist forum. Because that would be sad.

There you go rooster.
Now tell me, why are you so little?