Islamist Terrorism in the West

[julie]

Yes, Muslims probably do account for the majority of modern day terrorist attacks, but how can that be used as a basis to declare that the entire religion is demonic and cruel? Perhaps people perceived Christianity and other faiths in a similar light when those groups were the primary source of terrorist campaigns. It's just a cycle, in 500 years there will probably be an entirely different group or religion (if it still exists) that will terrorise the world. These events simply accumulate and continue to dampen our opinion of Islam, even though the number of extremists out there is very small, relatively speaking. I don't really blame you, it's hard not to feel a growing anti-Islam sentiment when we hear about these attacks on our very soil and at an increased frequency. But don't let that blind you. Islam is not the enemy. The enemy is a bunch of nutcases using religion as a proxy to justify their twisted ways.

The fact is, most of these radicals are either 1st or 2nd generation immigrants from countries that have been devastated by war and had periods of lawlessness. War will do that to people. Even some African immigrants in Australia have trouble assimilating into western culture. It's not their fault, they are just a product of their previous surroundings. You'd find however, that most are grateful and relish the opportunity for a better life. I personally don't know of one Muslim I've met that endorses the actions of these extremists. The most you will get out of them is that the west brought it upon themselves to a degree, and it's hard to argue against that. I'm sure you have Muslim friends Bill. Don't you feel guilty to continue that friendship yet proceed to clump them with extremists, out of spite for their religious beliefs?

At least 90% of the perpetrators of recent terrorist attacks were already known to authorities and have an extensive criminal record. Instead of trying to destroy Islam, it's more worthwhile questioning why these people were permitted to continue roaming the streets. Anyone with such ambitions should be deported, locked up or at least under some kind of restrictions/surveillance. Tightening up immigration policies wouldn't be a bad idea either, especially for European countries.

Beautifully said !


Corporate globalisation, fear mongering and brainwashing through main stream media to achieve purpose of one economy , (Eu an awesome exercise ) by targetting a group , using a group, for means to an end is happening across the world.
Ukraine is an example.
Another one is the atrocities and genocide of the Palestinians today. No one bats an eye at the actions against civilians. Strange how its come to light discovery of oil in region.
Look at the trail, at who is arming these extremist nutjobs, dont swallow the bullshit through mainstream media, and start looking at investigative journalism....to the point laws are being passed in western countries including Australia to silence journalists from sharing the truth.

This goes deeper than who is a Christian, Muslim, atheist , alien spaghetti monster worshipper.

I cannot believe in today's divisive world , that forum members are still preaching religious views. I vote for a secular MTO.

As for denouncing extremist nutcases who are committing CRIMINAL acts in the name of Islam, the muslim community has done that in Oz, on several occasions.

Look at the actions of fundamentalist Christian nutjobs, WACO, the KKK were all the loveliest of bible worshippers....yet, we dont denounce their religious ties ....we state they are committing CRIMINAL acts.

This whole thread has become personal , yet again.
"he hates me because i am a christian "
what utter rubbish .

Communication breakdown is irreparable. If the MTO continues on defining themselves first and foremost as christians, and not fellow human beings, may as well rename it..purpose was to unite , disseminate unformation in solidarity with each other and unity ...what appears here is factions of who is more worthy to contribute anything without being denigrated and insulted with ego.

Get your shit together all of you, stop attacking each other and making everything personal, who gives a shit what you do or dont worship, present your arguments with logic FFS

[Bill77]

EM

As promised, here I am.
There is so much to cover, so many questions to answer. so I will cover a little at a time.

To begin with, let me tell you Islamic terrorist incidents have gone up fivefold....since 9/11
When we look at a list just since 9/11, we had the Madrid bombings in 04, London in 05, Mumbai in 08, The Kenyan mall incident in 13, Benghazi which was just 1 of 20 cities that erupted when that movie "innocence of Muslims" was on the Internet. We had that Oaklahoma bombing, We have ISIS, Boko Haram who killed a whole village this past week. Blast in market of Nigeria's Maiduguri killing of at least 16 by a suicide bomber who was 10 ..........yes 10 year old girl. Pakistan killing of all those kids late last year, Canadian Parliament, Sydney cafe, Melbourne attack on the police.

Here is a list of attacks that have received significant press coverage since 1980 to Yesterday.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamic_terrorist_attacks

Apologists (The Chris's of this world) will always tell us they are just a few "Misguided" people.
There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world today. Of Course they are not all radicals, majority of them are peaceful people. The radicals are estimated to be only between 15 to 25 percent (according to intelligence services around the world) That's a very small minority. Some might phrase it as a few bad apples.........But when you look at 15-25 percent of the Muslim population (and increasing)......you are looking at 180 million to 300 million people dedicated to the destruction of western civilisation. So why should we wary about 15-25 percent of these radicals? Because it's these radicals that indiscriminately kill, because it is these radicals that behead and massacre........
To use a quote I head recently "when there is this many bad apples, there is something wrong with the orchard"

Please wiew this short video a speech that demonstrates how a majority of peaceful people is irrelevant when a minority can create devastation. By the way, I didnt clump the innocent Muslims with these extremists, these extreimists dragged them in.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nrmwB0bwtYQ

I am not some bigot. Just recent on MTO I became outspoken in defence of the Palestinians who endured that discriminate aerial bombardment by Israel. The only bigotry I see in here comes from Chris and Julie who at any opatunity (they even invent an opatunity) to dig their knees into Christians.

[Bill77]

Julie,
Can I ask you what WACO or KKK has to do with terrorist attacks that are self proclaimed by Islamists that its in the name of Islam? In-particular this attack in France?

Just as I expected. Point 2 of the opening post.

[Risto the Great]

Risto, read my first post then i'll motivate Bill to respond to your post.

Christian or no Christian, i'm cringing at your pretentiousness. You might as well protest the earth is flat along with your current agenda.

Nikolaj, you humour me. Talking about the earth being flat is kind of a fresh wound for a Christian isn't it?

At least you indicated people other than muslims can be terrorists. But I am not interested in Bill's response. I want Vangelovski to respond. He is that little man in the corner using naughty words and suggestions on this thread who has simply refused to answer a very simple and direct question.

The beginning of this thread stated all terrorists are muslim. I want to see Vangelovski's answer. He hasn't refuted the statement that all terrorists are muslim.

Further, my detailed response at #11 on this thread had nothing to do with Christianity (other than a silly deviation about false idols which had nothing to do with the first post). Only the Christian brotherhood on this thread has made it a Christians better than Muslims thing.

Far be it from me to be a muslim apologist. Though I note that being a Muslim in Ottoman times meant you had more liberty than being a Christian.

So, in short, I showed that not all terrorists are muslim and I showed muslims denouncing these acts. And the point is that I really couldn't give a shit about muslims and I prefer much less of them in Australia and Europe if they refuse to integrate into their new society.

[Vangelovski]

Still no answer Tom?
I asked you your opinion as to whether all terrorists are Muslim.
In fact, I asked many times.
I am curious what you are willing to agree with other Christians about, just because they are Christians.
I like Christians, I even find fuckwits amusing sometimes. I find you amusing sometimes.

Answer the question little man.

You just keep demanding your questions be answered but never answer anything yourself. I'm still waiting for answers to questions I posed over a year ago - what do we do about that? All you're giving me is more and more RtGionian dumbfuck.

P.S. If you're going to insult, at least be original with your insults - plagiarising them is just pathetic dumbfuck.

[Vangelovski]

The beginning of this thread stated all terrorists are muslim. I want to see Vangelovski's answer. He hasn't refuted the statement that all terrorists are muslim.

Did I make that statement? Did I even say anything in relation to that statement? Are you just confusing who's who because we all look the same to you? More dumbfuck from RtG.

We're yet to find out who this god is that you supposedly believe in - you've never even so much as provided on word on that, only to say that you believe in a god.

Members have repeatedly asked you questions in relation to that and you have ignored them, demanding only that your questions be answered and posting more dumbfuck.

[julie]

Name calling? Personal attack - calling me a direct bigot. What a big man you are now that you are a born again Christian Bill.

Bye all. Have a good one.

[Risto the Great]

Did I make that statement? Did I even say anything in relation to that statement? Are you just confusing who's who because we all look the same to you? More dumbfuck from RtG.

We're yet to find out who this god is that you supposedly believe in - you've never even so much as provided on word on that, only to say that you believe in a god.

Members have repeatedly asked you questions in relation to that and you have ignored them, demanding only that your questions be answered and posting more dumbfuck.

Still no answer to this pertinent question that solely relates to this thread. Getting funny now.

I won't go into the fact that you have singlehandedly turned me off Christianity. Just want an answer from you. Why can't you just be honest and pertinent? And your brotherhood seeks to attack me for showing some reason here. I love it. Bring it on little man. Are you as little as I think you are?

[Risto the Great]

Did I make that statement? Did I even say anything in relation to that statement? Are you just confusing who's who because we all look the same to you? More dumbfuck from RtG.

My statement was that not all terrorists are muslim.
This was your reply:

RtG, you've got to be the most retarded individual on this forum right now. The more you try to post something "intelligent" on the religious threads the more obvious it becomes that you are seriously lacking in your cognitive capacity.

Stick to what you know - you're only making a fool of yourself and the MTO.

So, you made some general hateful comments but did not respond to the issue being discussed. Why are you such a hateful little man?

[Vangelovski]

My statement was that not all terrorists are muslim.
This was your reply:


So, you made some general hateful comments but did not respond to the issue being discussed. Why are you such a hateful little man?

You said a lot more than that. Go reread your comments and then give us some more dumbfuck, ignoring the year old question about your god and a whole bunch of other dumbfuck you've posted on here.

[Nikolaj]

Nikolaj, you humour me. Talking about the earth being flat is kind of a fresh wound for a Christian isn't it? Please elaborate, Risto?

At least you indicated people other than muslims can be terrorists. But I am not interested in Bill's response. I want Vangelovski to respond. He is that little man in the corner using naughty words and suggestions on this thread who has simply refused to answer a very simple and direct question.

The beginning of this thread stated all terrorists are muslim. I want to see Vangelovski's answer. He hasn't refuted the statement that all terrorists are muslim.

Further, my detailed response at #11 on this thread had nothing to do with Christianity (other than a silly deviation about false idols which had nothing to do with the first post). Only the Christian brotherhood on this thread has made it a Christians better than Muslims thing.

Far be it from me to be a muslim apologist. Though I note that being a Muslim in Ottoman times meant you had more liberty than being a Christian.

So, in short, I showed that not all terrorists are muslim and I showed muslims denouncing these acts. And the point is that I really couldn't give a shit about muslims and I prefer much less of them in Australia and Europe if they refuse to integrate into their new society.

Here is the significant difference you don't understand my friend.

Bill knows not all terrorists are Muslims, but since you started putting Christianity into the equation, he has been trying to distinguish terrorism from religious based terrorism.

Maybe breaking down the meaning of a terrorist attack and classifying what group of people belong to what category of terrorism would help your understanding.

Common definitions of terrorism refer only to those violent acts that are intended to create fear (terror); are perpetrated for a religious, political, or ideological goal; and deliberately target or disregard the safety of non-combatants (e.g., neutral military personnel or civilians).

So we have religious, political and ideological category. Let’s see the difference shall we?

Religious:
- Muslims fighting for Islamic state.
- Muslims killing non-believers for Allah.

Why are Muslims placed in the religious category? The Islamic religion itself is what promotes such acts. A terrorist for Islam is still a true Muslim man.

Political:
- The Muslims in Gaza fighting against Israelis.
- The Israelis in Gaza fighting against the Palestinian Muslims, Israelis are violating human rights policies.

Ideological:
- Christian terrorists killing for, Jesus?
- Elliot Rogers

Why are Christians not placed within the religious category? Because Christianity does not promote anything like this, hence why it has nothing to do with the religion itself, but the persons personal ideological views. If a Christian person kills for Christ, he is defying the laws of the religion and is not promoting any ideological view of the religion itself, this is not a Christian man.

Anyways…

It is fine my atheist friends, feel free to continue supporting Islam (the same Islamic states and religion who are legalizing rape of women that are out alone, who stone women to death) by ‘trying’ to put it on the same pedestal as Christianity to fulfill your own mental security of being non-religious. If you cannot agree with the obvious stated here, you are merely talking a bunch of trash and are directly denying the reality to once again fulfill your own mental security of being non-religious.

So yes Risto, you might as well be yelling "the earth is flat," "the earth is flat," because it is quite equivalent.

[Risto the Great]

You said a lot more than that. Go reread your comments and then give us some more dumbfuck, ignoring the year old question about your god and a whole bunch of other dumbfuck you've posted on here.

Answer the question little man.
Are all terrorists muslim?

You can then tell me what I said. Because you haven't done anything other than being a nasty christian type of litle man to this point on this thread.

[Risto the Great]

Bill knows not all terrorists are Muslims
Why are Christians not placed within the religious category? Because Christianity does not promote anything like this, hence why it has nothing to do with the religion itself, but the persons personal ideological views. If a Christian person kills for Christ, he is defying the laws of the religion and is not promoting any ideological view of the religion itself, this is not a Christian man.

No, he said all terrorists are muslim. There isn't room for interpretation on that. You are putting words in his mouth. If he disagrees, he should change his post.

Anyways…

It is fine my atheist friends, feel free supporting Islam (the same Islamic states and religion who are legalizing rape of women that are out alone) by ‘trying’ to put it on the same pedestal as Christianity to fulfill your own security for not believing in any religion in general. If you cannot agree with the obvious stated here, you are merely talking a bunch of trash and are directly denying the reality to fulfill your own mental security.

Thanks for that. It sounds so much clearer now.

But, for the benefit of the (very) few sane people here, I support free thinking. Not indoctrinated bullshit mentalities that can inly interpret matters in black and white.

And if you could read what I posted, you saw muslim organisations denouncing terrorists and you saw proof of non muslim terrorist acts. Your job seems to be about defending anything christian but it shouldn't extend to looking ignorant in the process.

Your opinion about christian based acts of terrorism not being religious are absolutely fucking laughable and apologetic.

O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. 9How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

It doesn't take much for some biblical infused fuckwit to read the above and determine we are living in Babylon right now. Then proceed to kill little kids for "the glory of divine justice".

Carry on.

[Bill77]

Chris,

I never intended to come across as to suggest the culprits behind every terrorist attack in history have been Muslims. I've tried clarifying my statement over and over which everyone understands and I'm sure including you. But you keep on using the statement out of context. Why do you keep throwing it up? Is it the only thing you have left In your arsenal?
I also like to know why should Tom explain or get into a discusion with you over something I wrote in the beginning of this thread. I am responsible for it, only I need to explain which I have.

Here is another way of putting it. This is how I veiewed it when making those claims.
First it needs to be put in context (which you deliberately take out). What preceded my controversial statement "All terrorists are Muslims" (which was only half the quote) Was "Not all Muslims are terrorists. The statement that is part of the setting of this thread, read post #1 again. It's a statement we hear every time coming from Muslims and non Muslim apologists each time the world is confronted by a terrorist attack by Islamist. And if everyone is honest (which I doubt) when reports of a terrorist attack first come in.....what is the first thing everyone naturally assumes???? Yes you all know the answer though some would not admit it. Now think to yourself, are you a bigot? Or is it because its such a common occurrence, the fact the world has changed since September 11 "Mainly" caused by Islamists......that its imbedded in our subconscious that we have no control over? Who is to blame for this seed planted in our heads? It's obvious, but Apologists will continue to sweep it under the carpet and blame the media for this hysteria, or Christians and Jews, apologists will keep on turning a blind eye and throw around words such as bigot, islamophobia towards anyone stating the obvious. Muslims with help from their apologists will keep claiming to be the victims. In a sense this last point is correct. Because not all Muslims are terrorists, but until they together with their apologists recognise and destroy their Jihadist cancer......they will continue to be held responsible.

Back to who I was referring to "All terrorists"......
The ones behind these http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...rorist_attacks
They are the reason.....the ones peaceful Muslims have to always respond to with
"Not all Muslims are terrorists" but again, what help is this response? Who's mind set do they really need to work on?

Now Chris....tell us about Jesus.
I can tell you he loves you so much that he died for you.

[Nikolaj]

No, he said all terrorists are muslim. There isn't room for interpretation on that. You are putting words in his mouth. If he disagrees, he should change his post. Ok, nevermind then.




Thanks for that. It sounds so much clearer now.

But, for the benefit of the (very) few sane people here, I support free thinking. Not indoctrinated bullshit mentalities that can inly interpret matters in black and white.

And if you could read what I posted, you saw muslim organisations denouncing terrorists and you saw proof of non muslim terrorist acts. Your job seems to be about defending anything christian but it shouldn't extend to looking ignorant in the process.

Your opinion about christian based acts of terrorism not being religious are absolutely fucking laughable and apologetic.


It doesn't take much for some biblical infused fuckwit to read the above and determine we are living in Babylon right now. Then proceed to kill little kids for "the glory of divine justice".

Carry on.

Yes Risto, because being a Christian limits your cognitive ability and your will to think freely? How evil, isn't it? Because people know how to be good people right? Because Christianity is about being perfect right?

You can continue thinking with Julie that people of the KKK were bible worshipers. That's equivalent to thinking Hitler was a catholic, the same catholic who referred to humans as species.

That's your issue. You think I ignored your post. The denounced Muslim acts are ideological views. Your point? How does this contradict what I have written? I'm speaking strictly religious terrorism, you cannot be a Christian terrorist, a Christian terrorist is not a Christian.

O daughter of Babylon, you devastated one, How blessed will be the one who repays you With the recompense with which you have repaid us. 9How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

This only goes to show how ignorant you are towards Christianity, that you quoted the old testament. Still by the same God though right, Risto?