The war&occupation in Azerbaijan, which has been ignored by everyone for 20 years

[Onur]

Here is another double standard when it comes to condemning war criminals;

I bet you guys never heard what happened in Azerbaijan in 1991-1992 because this never got public attention and everything carefully concealed from the international media and this hypocrisy still continues after 20 years.

After ~80 year long communist USSR oppression, Azeri Turks declared the creation of their own state in 1990 but shortly after that, Armenians with the backup from Russian army, invaded 20% of Azeri territory. Russians supported Armenians because anti-Russian feelings was so high among Azeri Turks and there was even serious talks about asking to unite with Turkey since they didn't even know what to do next because all they knew for the last century was Russian language, vodka and communist dictators from "mother Russia"!!!

In the end of 2 year long conflict, Armenians killed about 20.000 Azeri civilians and they also expelled over a million Azeri from their ancestral homelands. But the most extreme case realized in a city called Hocali, where Armenian army committed massacre of ~700 civilians, women and children in just few hours overnight.


I am posting this thread here cuz i saw a brave attempt from Hungarian politicians to convince Hungarian parliament, NATO and EU to recognize this incident as a genocide and condemn it;

Jobbik initiates in Hungarian Parliament the condemnation of the Armenian genocide in Nagorno Karabah and neighbouring Azerbaijani occupied territories

As a consequence of the Armenian genocide committed against Azerbaijani civilians in the 1992-93 armed conflict approximately 1 million refugees – internally displaced persons (IDP) – are waiting for the international recognition of their plight.

M�rton Gy�ngy�si, vice-chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Hungarian National Assembly – together with G�bor Vona, Jobbik’s parliamentary group leader and Tam�s Hegedűs, deputy-leader of the fraction – submitted today to the Hungarian National Assembly a draft resolution calling upon the parliament to condemn the Armenian aggression and genocide committed in Nagorno-Karabah and other occupied Azerbaijani territories. In a press conference held today with the participation of the national and international media, as well as representatives of the diplomatic corps, M�rton Gy�ngy�si pointed out: following the fall of the Soviet Union Armenia stepped up with territorial claims against Azerbaijan, and the armed conflict was triggered by the military occupation of Nagorno Karabah and other seven adjoining Azerbaijani territories.

As a consequence of the military attack of the Soviet-Armenian forces Azerbaijan lost 20 per cent of its territories, 20.000 civilians were killed, 100.000 injured and close to 1 million people were driven from their homes and homeland. The Armenian aggression reached its apex with the occupation of Khojali on 25-26 February, 1992, when the Armenian forces committed ethnic cleansing, with a horrifying record: in a single day 613 civilians were killed, amongst them 106 women and 83 children. M�rton Gy�ngy�si called the attention to the fact that although the Security Council of the United Nations, the European Parliament, the OSCE, the Council of Europe and NATO has condemned the genocide committed by the Armenians in numerous resolutions and called upon a swift settlement of the status of the Azerbaijani refugees – a humanitarian problem unresolved till today.

The genocide in Khojali was amongst the largest ethnic atrocities of the nineties, which was unjustly forgotten and bypassed by the international community – reminded M�rton Gy�ngy�si. The Jobbik MP stated: there are numerous national tragedies in world history, but it is unacceptable that while we frequently remember and commemorate certain tragedies, we forget others. Jobbik has always been an outspoken critic of double standards within the European Union, which – on other occasions – seems particularly sensitive in the question of human rights and human dignity. Acknowledging our historical responsibility and in line with our international commitments in the area of universal human rights we call upon the Hungarian National Assembly to initiate on every international forum the condemnation of the Armenian aggression; the urgent need for the settlement of the status of Nagorno Karabah and other occupied territories; the restoration of the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Azerbaijan, as well as the settlement of the status of 1 million refugees driven out by the Armenian aggressors from Azerbaijani occupied territories – said M�rton Gy�ngy�si.

The press conference was concluded with the screening of the following dramatic documentary film giving an informative overview of the conflict and its background:

YouTube - Armenian aggression in Karabah - Örmény agresszió Karabahban

11/04/2011

http://www.jobbik.com/jobbik-announcements/3197.html

Jobbik is Hungary`s turanist party. They are currently the main opposition party in there and they have a chance to be the leading party for the next elections. They have some radical opinions like leaving EU and Eurozone all together and more radically, they support turanism, the reunion of all Turkic and Uralic peoples just like the times of Huns!!! They were members of the union of all EU rightist parties b4 but they have been dismissed by Austrian and Dutch rightists afterwards, because of their support to the Turks unlike all other rightist parties in Europe. But nevertheless, it`s so surprising to see an act like this from an EU member state who currently have EU presidency status for this year.


Btw, Armenian occupation still continues in Nagorno-Karabakh region for 20 years and literally everyone remains silent about this. No one even thinks about sending Armenians to the international court of war crimes for the ones who were responsible for the massacres in Azeri lands. Especially for the horrible events in the city of Hocali. Most of people in Turkey, including myself are in deep regret because we allowed them to do this and most of people here are thinking that we should have bomb Armenians and end this conflict in a day. Maybe this will happen in near future cuz Armenians with backup from great powers, refuses to leave the 20% of Azeri territory which they have been occupied since 1991.


This video shows one survivor of the Hocali massacre. He shows the giant cross sign on his chest done by Armenians by stigmatizing him with heated giant cross, just like branding a cow.

YouTube - Мамедов М.М.,содержался в армянском плену / Prisoner
Mail Mammadalioglu Mammadov -- was kept in Armenian captivity on 21.10.1992-07.05.1993

This is the translation of his speech; One day, when I was kept in Hadrut district as prisoners of war, Armenian soldiers formed us up to row. Then Armenian soldiers named Artur and Vadig and one black skin soldier threw me down and branded on my breast by the heated cross. Then the black soldier tortured me pressing by foot on the branded breast. One day when I was kept in Hadrut, Armenian brought one wounded and brutally beaten Azerbaijani captive. He was blinding. His arms were tied. After some time came Armenian soldiers which and beat this man by sticks. Then they dragged him out in corridor and cut his head off. Then his head was thrown to the cell back.




You can see where is this occupied region from this video;

YouTube - Putin on Armenian History

[Giorikas]

Talk about hypocacy .. 'Liberate' North Cyprus and keep an occupation force (what do the UN resolutions say about that ..?) there but the same time call for the Nakorno Karabagh situation to be condemned internationally.
It shows again your true agenda which is 1) Take every opportunity to glorify Turkey 2) your blatently obvious hatred to Greeks & Armenians. Funny how folks here tolerate their cause being used as a vehicle to push your agenda forward in nearly every post you make.

[Onur]

I just saw this press announcement on the web site of Jobbik party. I really cant believe that this party took 17% of votes in 2010 and became main opposition party in there with these ideas and i heard that they have increased their votes since then;

Gabor Vona, Jobbik President in the Hungarian Parliament: Turanism Instead of Euro-Atlantic Alliance!

During the recent past decades of Hungarian public life, Jobbik was the first to talk decisively about the idea of Hungary turning towards the East. There were voices raised, here and there, and feeble attempts which never amounted to much, but it was we, the Jobbik, that proposed a consistent program of policies and showed the way, pointing East.

Many people, of course, only perceived this kind of thinking as a sort of romantic idealism about the ancient origin of Hungarians; of course that is part of it, and it is what gave the impetus to the unfolding of this kind of ideology. However, it is not that backward looking nostalgia that is the most important aspect of this ideology. So, why is Jobbik so much in favour of Hungary turning towards the East, and in fact, what does this all mean?

Hungary stands desperately lonesome in the arena of world politics. Because of the problems we face in international politics, we are in dire need of close and supportive alliances. However, we have no allies. And, no one should foolishly believe that the attempts of the last 20 years to corral us into NATO and the EU, have alleviated the pains of our isolation. Our seemingly benign alliance with the Euro-Atlantic community, which appeared to offer a protective umbrella, has put us in an even more indentured and powerless position.Now, we are not just alone, but we are also obliged to stay that way. We are prevented from building independent, key relationships which would have the expected positive benefits in our cultural, social and economic life.[/COLOR][/B] We have to break out of this situation, but unfortunately, the trap we find ourselves in is made stronger by the actions of the current leading parties, Fidesz and MSZP, who are so in sync with Euro-Atlantic interests that they either do not notice the situation we are in, or if they do, they are incapable of doing anything for the advancement of Hungarian national interests.

The Jobbik party is the only political force in Hungary, which has the freedom to develop a strategy for foreign policy not constrained and influenced by financial or political circles, but based solely on the pursuit of national interests. We are convinced that only the East provides a break-out solution for our nation. . And what immense opportunities this opening holds for us!

We, Hungarians are the most westerly of the Eastern people. If we put aside the lies about our Finno-Ugric origin, and only profess that we are the descendents of Atilla, we would suddenly find hundreds of millions ready to form a common basis for alliance. In fact, there are about two hundred million people living in the world today, who can say that they are descendants of Atilla. It is not possible, of course, to build a political strategy based on this fact alone. However, if we take a look at the countries from Bulgaria to Turkey and all the way across to Eastern Asia, we realise that we, Hungarians could have a lot of common political objectives with these countries. We come to realise that an alliance based and developed on the principles of Turanism instead of the Euro-Atlantic alliance would be more effective in serving the needs and interests of our nation.

In order to avoid misunderstandings, we need to clarify that this would in no way mean that Hungary should separate from Europe. In fact, what we propose would mean a strengthening of our position in Europe, as Hungary could thus become the Western bastion of a Turanic alliance, as well as its representative within the European Union. We also need not worry about the fact that as a Christian nation, we would be dealing with non-Christian nations. Living a non-Christian way of life is already a common, wide-spread practice within the EU. Besides which, we can safely say that a true Muslim believer or any other true believer in their own country is closer to God the Almighty, than non-practicing Christians inhabiting Europe today. If Hungary wants to regain its positions as a strong player on the stage of international politics it should not head in the direction showed by Fidesz and MSZP, the clownish antics exhibited within the EU, but instead membership in a Turanic alliance , or if needed, its leading role and initiative in forming such an alliance.

As Jobbik party president, I am now taking the first step by declaring here in Hungary and before the whole world: I am Hungarian, grandson of Atilla! Come what may, I am ready!

by G�bor Vona, President of Jobbik Movement for a Better Hungary

12/04/2011

http://www.jobbik.com/jobbik-announcements/3198.html

Even the turanist party in Turkey gets around 12% of votes as maximum even tough they are not that radical as Jobbik. Turkish turanist rightist party is not even as vocal as Hungarian one about European Union and other western unions even tough Turkey is not a member of EU while Hungary is and they hold the EU presidency status for 2011!!!

if we take a look at the countries from Bulgaria to Turkey and all the way across to Eastern Asia, we realise that we, Hungarians could have a lot of common political objectives with these countries.

Turkish people already knows the relation between Hungarians and Turks but Bulgarians???!! Bulgarians would consider this claim of being the grandsons of Atilla as an insult to them since they refuse their Turkic, Hunnic roots and falsely relate themselves as Indo-Iranian people from Afghanistan!!!

[Onur]

Talk about hypocacy .. 'Liberate' North Cyprus and keep an occupation force (what do the UN resolutions say about that ..?) there but the same time call for the Nakorno Karabagh situation to be condemned internationally.

Cyprus and Nakorno Karabagh issue is quite similar. Azeri Turks didn't do anything bad to Armenians, just like Turkish Cypriots didnt do anything to Greek Cypriots. All of a sudden, Armenians occupied Azeri lands and killed them, expelled millions (Like junta army from Greece). While in Cyprus, EOKA terrorists tried to massacre all Turks in there and they openly expressed their intention of genocide to the press. Then Greek army invaded Cyprus and rightfully we gone there after Greek army intervened to save Turkish Cypriots from inevitable genocide since it was pretty obvious what would ~25.000 fascist junta soldiers with ~5000+ EOKA terrorists who chants for Enosis with kalashnikovs would do to the unarmed Turkish Cypriots!

I regret that we should have do the same and protect Azeris too just like we did in Cyprus. Turkey could stop all these massacres by throwing out Armenian forces from Azerbaijan in a day. We did this for Cyprus and stopped the massacres but we didn't in Azerbaijan and massacres realized.

Nothing would have happen in Cyprus if Greek army wouldn't enter Cyprus with tanks, ~25.000 soldiers, along with Greek Cypriot EOKA terrorists. I can assure you that if Greece dares to do same for western Thrace one day, then Turkey would do exact same thing for western Thrace. Then you Greeks would cry like "Turkey invaded EU territory" for 40+ years just like you do for Cyprus.

[Giorikas]

Cyprus and Nakorno Karabagh issue is quite similar. Azeri Turks didn't do anything bad to Armenians, just like Turkish Cypriots didnt do anything to Greek Cypriots. All of a sudden, Armenians occupied Azeri lands and killed them, expelled millions (Like junta army from Greece). While in Cyprus, EOKA terrorists tried to massacre all Turks in there and they openly expressed their intention of genocide to the press. Then Greek army invaded Cyprus and rightfully we gone there after Greek army intervened to save Turkish Cypriots from inevitable genocide since it was pretty obvious what would ~25.000 fascist junta soldiers with ~5000+ EOKA terrorists who chants for Enosis with kalashnikovs would do to the unarmed Turkish Cypriots!

I regret that we should have do the same and protect Azeris too just like we did in Cyprus. Turkey could stop all these massacres by throwing out Armenian forces from Azerbaijan in a day. We did this for Cyprus and stopped the massacres but we didn't in Azerbaijan and massacres realized.

Nothing would have happen in Cyprus if Greek army wouldn't enter Cyprus with tanks, ~25.000 soldiers, along with Greek Cypriot EOKA terrorists. I can assure you that if Greece dares to do same for western Thrace one day, then Turkey would do exact same thing for western Thrace. Then you Greeks would cry like "Turkey invaded EU territory" for 40+ years just like you do for Cyprus.

As you probably know, not too many people outside Turkey are really buying all that so I won't bother to even comment. How come your Azeri friends though never recognised Northern Cyprus to follow, err, the long list of countries who did that before them ?

[Onur]

It`s ironic that you only bring the question of whether people buy these arguments or not while you cannot deny what i wrote above. It`s because what i said was the truth.

Azerbaijan was about to recognize northern Cyprus but EU strictly told them that they will impose embargoes to them if they recognize northern Cyprus. Several more states was going to recognize it but they have been threatened by EU again. It`s again a double-standard while they encourage people to recognize Kosovo, they are threatening same states about recognition of Cyprus!

Btw, you should have learned by now that Turkey does what we believe right and we don't care much about who buys that or not. Greek and Turkish Cypriot governments doing the last negotiations this year and it will probably fail again since it`s kinda impossible to have an agreement with you Greeks. So, in the end, not only Azerbaijan, Greece will recognize northern Cyprus too cuz you wont have any other option, so don't worry about recognition issue.

P.S: This thread is not about Cyprus, so this was my last msg about it here.

[Giorikas]

Your truth is a bit creative and I said I didn't even want to bother actually..not that I can not deny what you said. Shouldn't probably bother either to explain you that the EU doesn't tell China, the US or Russia who they can recognise or not. Azerbajan is exporting energy as you know, and the EU will certainly not impose any embargo on them. That's just silly talk again. Greece will recognise Northern Cyprus eh, ... well for now let's wait until the impressive list apart from Turkey gets a bit longer.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Funny how folks here tolerate their cause being used as a vehicle to push your agenda forward in nearly every post you make.

Funny how folks like yourself who post here once per annum have the nerve to make silly generalisations like the above. Ask Onur if everything he has stated here has been agreed to by people like myself, and the answer will be no. Rather than whinging about his post, address it, or don't respond at all.

[Onur]

The PM of Armenia, Serzh Sargsyan is reported to have told students that their generation's mission is to "recover" land from eastern Turkey.

From Armenian web site;

Will Western Armenia be returned to Armenians? - President’s reply

In response to a student’s question concerning future borders of Armenian state and whether the Western Armenia with the Mount Ararat will ever be united to Eastern Armenia, the president answered that everything depends on the young generation. Every generation has some goal to achieve, he added.

Current generation defended and liberated a part of Armenian land. If the future generation makes much effort then Armenia will be one of the best states in the world. Generally, the power of the state is not defined through its territory. The state should be modern, secure and prosperous. The Armenian people are able to achieve their goal. And they will if they believe, added President Sargsyan.

July 25, 2011

http://news.am/eng/news/68980.html

By western Armenia, they mean Turkey and while PM says "liberated a part of Armenian land", he means Karabakh region, occupied by Armenia and he says that his generation fulfilled their role with Karabakh and he addresses future Armenian generation to eye for a new war with Turkey!!!

It`s no surprise that Armenian youth are burning in desire of these issues cuz in Armenia, every student from 6 years of age gives an oath in schools, every morning that they will get Anatolia and it`s their duty to create greater Armenian kingdom by their blood. It`s also written in their constitution and Armenia still doesn't recognize our border with them for a century.

They expelled more than a million Azeri Turks from Karabakh and massacred 20.000 of them, committed a genocide by killing over 700 civilians in a night. But it seems they are proud of this and wanting more of it.


I am quite sure that Azerbaijan and Armenia will start a war for Karabakh in few years of time, maybe 1-2 years. Turkey and Russia will involve in to this too. EU will probably accuse us for committing "2nd genocide" on Armenians. Probably whole EU, US will side with Armenia but this war will happen soon cuz there is no other way for Azerbaijan to get back Karabakh region.

Regardless of what world thinks or says, this war will happen cuz Armenians are extremely hostile and living in a dream world. They have 2-3 million population living in extreme poverty, about 100.000 Armenians illegally living and working in Turkey but Armenian elite doesn't think of anything else besides waging a war against Turkey.

[Onur]

This is so funny but yet a tragic event which describes the desperate and laughable situation of Armenia;

Just a week ago, Armenian state established diplomatic relations with a country called Tuvalu. I didn't even know where this country is but it looks like Tuvalu is a Polynesian island located in the Pacific Ocean, midway between Hawaii and Australia. Maybe you guys in Australia know it better.

It looks like this funny state of Tuvalu, took about 3 million dollars from Russia last year, in exchange of recognizing Russian occupied Georgian territories of Abkhazia and South Ossetia as an independent country.
And now, a week later of establishing Armenia-Tuvalu diplomatic relations, Tuvalu will recognize Armenian occupied (with Russia`s support) Azerbaijani territory of Nagorno-Karabakh.

From Armenian web sites;

Armenia, Tuvalu establish diplomatic ties
On March 16, Permanent representatives of Armenia and Tuvalu to UN Karen Nazaryan and Afelee F. Pita signed a joint statement on establishment of diplomatic relations at United Nations Headquarters in New York City.

Following the signing ceremony, a decision was taken to develop bilateral relations and foster deepening of cooperation in the framework of the UN and other organizations, RA MFA press service reported.

Tuvalu is a Polynesian island nation located in the Pacific Ocean, midway between Hawaii and Australia. Tuvalu became fully independent within the Commonwealth on October 1, 1978. On September 5, 2000, it became the 189th member of the United Nations.
http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/99280/

Tuvalu to recognize NKR independence?
"Armenia has established diplomatic relations with the state of Tuvalu of the Pacific Ocean in order to reach international recognition of the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic," writes the Hurriyet.

We remind that on March 16, UN Permanent Representatives of Armenia and Tuvalu Karen Nazaryan and Falema Pitan signed a Joint Declaration on the Establishment of Diplomatic Relations between the Republic of Armenia and Tuvalu.

According to the author of the article, Armenia, on the one hand, is taking steps to include Armenian Genocide recognition on the political agenda of several countries ahead of April 24th, and on the other hand, to reach international recognition of Nagorno-Karabakh. The author of the article writes that Ankara is "closely following up on the strengthening of relations between Armenia and Tuvalu" because last year, Tuvalu recognized the independence of the breakaway regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia in exchange for Russia's $3.4 million.

"To not hurt relations with the West, Armenia, which itself doesn't recognize the independence of Nagorno-Karabakh, can follow Russia's example and offer money to the Pacific Ocean state; otherwise, what is the meaning of establishing relations with a country that is located at a 15,000 kilometer distance from Yerevan?" notes the author of the article. According to the author, what's also interesting is the fact that a day after that, on March 17, RA Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandyan left for Georgia "to clarify the situation with his Georgian counterpart".

The author also doesn't exclude that Russia is aware of this step. Russia is "discontent with NATO placing anti-missile systems in the territory of Turkey and Ankara's position on Syria".

March 24, 2012
http://www.a1plus.am/en/politics/2012/03/24/tuvalu

But where is the recognition of the so-called "Armenian genocide"? Tuvalu government asked for 3 million dollars more for recognizing the genocide and Armenian state don't have enough money to convince these Aborigines?

[vicsinad]

Giorikas:

I have this book published in 1959 by Dudley Barker called: "Grivas: Portrait of a Terrorist." You know...that guy who terrorized Cyprus all in expanding Greece's borders and assuming power over all of Greece. Very good explanations about the Greek terrorism that ravaged Cyprus in the 1950s. So to say that the outside world isn't "buying" any of it isn't quite true.

Though I somewhat do agree with your post about people on this forum tolerating Onur's posts a little too much. Sometimes I get the impression that some Macedonians are willing to ignore Turkey's blunders for the sake of maintaining a friendship of convenience due to "common enemies."

[fatso]

Giorikas:

I have this book published in 1959 by Dudley Barker called: "Grivas: Portrait of a Terrorist." You know...that guy who terrorized Cyprus all in expanding Greece's borders and assuming power over all of Greece. Very good explanations about the Greek terrorism that ravaged Cyprus in the 1950s. So to say that the outside world isn't "buying" any of it isn't quite true.

Though I somewhat do agree with your post about people on this forum tolerating Onur's posts a little too much. Sometimes I get the impression that some Macedonians are willing to ignore Turkey's blunders for the sake of maintaining a friendship of convenience due to "common enemies."

I totally agree with both your statements......Well said

[Risto the Great]

Sometimes I get the impression that some Macedonians are willing to ignore Turkey's blunders for the sake of maintaining a friendship of convenience due to "common enemies."

Would you agree that Greece represents a far more immediate threat to Macedonia than Turkey (even over the last 100 years)?

I'm prepared to offer Turks more latitude than typical Greeks in matters pertaining to Macedonia.

[vicsinad]

Would you agree that Greece represents a far more immediate threat to Macedonia than Turkey (even over the last 100 years)?

I'm prepared to offer Turks more latitude than typical Greeks in matters pertaining to Macedonia.

Well, first... I am making a distinction between the people and the nation-states. But yes, overall Greece represents the more immediate threat.

However, for one example, for all the differences between Kurdistan and Macedonia, I do not give Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria any latitude in denying an ethnic group a right to a homeland. Sure, many Kurds utilize terrorism to achieve their goals, and I don't condone that. But then again, so did many Macedonians in the late 1800s and early 1900s.

I think Macedonians need to keep in mind the overarching themes of the struggle for freedom and self-determination before accepting support and making friends. I'd rather Macedonia and Macedonians go down fighting by themselves than accept the support of a much more powerful nation that is also, in one form or another, disregarding the same freedoms, rights and principles that Macedonians have fought for and are still fighting for.

[Risto the Great]

I think Macedonians need to keep in mind the overarching themes of the struggle for freedom and self-determination before accepting support and making friends. I'd rather Macedonia and Macedonians go down fighting by themselves than accept the support of a much more powerful nation that is also, in one form or another, disregarding the same freedoms, rights and principles that Macedonians have fought for and are still fighting for.

I agree.
I also think we won't find any powerful nation that meets your criteria.