International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Pelister]

The case that Greece will impose another 'economic blockade' has no merit to it. Its just a clever piece of propaganda. An economic blockade has been in effect in operation since about 1992. Macedonian currency - the Denar (very possibly the currency of the ancient Macedonians by the way), has never been accepted anywhere inside Greece and most of the traffic has been one way ever since.

It just sickens me that people continue to use this kind of propaganda as a way to show their support for the current processes, Accords and institutions - that are crippling us and doing our rightful identity and heritage irreparable damage.

[Risto the Great]

RTG Post511...


How is one to interpret the above, RTG???

Is it that Macedonia was the ONLY republic to secede from Yugoslavia WITHOUT a war that bothers you?

Is it ALSO bothering you that Macedonia is not risking violence to establish her rightful name?

Is it a 'He Man - Let's Fight' that gets you off?

Is this really how you think?
...
...

Listen fyrOM, it is my personal belief that Macedonians have failed almost all of their "tests" over the last 20 years. I think the modern Macedonian identity has not been forged and is continually failing its tests. I believe the polite secession from Serbia meant that Macedonians were not tested in relation to their desire for a truly sovereign nation.

People like you remind me that Macedonians are still living in delusion that other people are responsible for making their lives better.

[fyrOM]

Listen fyrOM, it is my personal belief that Macedonians have failed almost all of their "tests" over the last 20 years. I think the modern Macedonian identity has not been forged and is continually failing its tests. I believe the polite secession from Serbia meant that Macedonians were not tested in relation to their desire for a truly sovereign nation.

People like you remind me that Macedonians are still living in delusion that other people are responsible for making their lives better.

In other words, they have not shown the test of "grit, blood , sweat and tears" to be Macedonians on their own two feet in their own sovereign state?

Thankyou for your frank admission (we now can All see where you stand) but I think today's Macedonians would rather fight with their minds/wit ie marifet ie knack than how many limbs and lives they can loose or how much blood and tears they can shed!

Cave-man thinking Vs. reaching for the moon and stars and beyond.

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM, a few more draws on the crack pipe and you'll have reached the "moon and stars and beyond".

[Risto the Great]

fyrOM, there is a band that had a song that reminds me of you, their name is TISM.

Macedonians have barely shown an understanding of the flag issue much less a desire to assert their sovereignty.

[Soldier of Macedon]

In other words, they have not shown the test of "grit, blood , sweat and tears" to be Macedonians on their own two feet in their own sovereign state?

Given how lucky they had it in the beginning where they achieved independence from Yugoslavia without a war, they should have capitalised on their advantage. They didn't. And the reason for this is simple: there was a lacking sense of consolidated nationalism that was present in all of the other former Yugoslav republics as a result of war. It is unfortunate that war brings out such necessary sentiment, because it could have been achieved in Macedonia without war if there was some smart governance. But there wasn't. Consequently, nearly every single fundamental decision they have made has been detrimental to the Macedonian Cause.

[makedonche]

NEWS FLASH
i JUST SPENT AN HOUR EXPLAINING TO ONE OF OUR MACEDONIAN SENIOR CITIZENS THAT WE ARE NOT SUING GREECE AT THE ICJ OVER OUR NAME! IT APPEARS THAT MORE THAN A FEW OF OUR PEOPLE ARE UNAWARE OF THE PURPOSE OF THE ICJ COURT. THIS IS VERY DISTURBING TO SAY THE LEAST.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Had a similar conversation with some stari not long ago, the most concerning thing was, although they are uninformed, they think they are more informed than the people that actually are. It is almost as though they cannot believe Gruevski is doing a number on the Macedonian people - even while he is doing it in front of their eyes.

[makedonche]

Had a similar conversation with some stari not long ago, the most concerning thing was, although they are uninformed, they think they are more informed than the people that actually are. It is almost as though they cannot believe Gruevski is doing a number on the Macedonian people - even while he is doing it in front of their eyes.

SOM
I get the same distinct impression! It's as if they are waiting for someone else to come along and save their sovreignity for them, simply because what is happening is unfair or unbelievable!

[George S.]

i just explained to my numko that the calling of macedonia fyrom could have been avoided by them simply not accepting the name.THere is no two ways about it you do not bargain your identity.On the flag issue some people who are silly accept the ventilator.They could've refused it but they didn't.The people themselves are confused & like sheep to the slaghter house they capitulated when in fact they should've held steadfast.The worst that could happen is you don't get into the un or nato or eu.Who cares.What matters is that you value your self worth as a macedonian.
Another thing our politicians cooperate so willingly that it's shocking it's a sellout.If ordinary people don't care how will the politicians care.

[makedonche]

i just explained to my numko that the calling of macedonia fyrom could have been avoided by them simply not accepting the name.THere is no two ways about it you do not bargain your identity.On the flag issue some people who are silly accept the ventilator.They could've refused it but they didn't.The people themselves are confused & like sheep to the slaghter house they capitulated when in fact they should've held steadfast.The worst that could happen is you don't get into the un or nato or eu.Who cares.What matters is that you value your self worth as a macedonian.
Another thing our politicians cooperate so willingly that it's shocking it's a sellout.If ordinary people don't care how will the politicians care.

George S.
I don't know whether it's "don't care" or "don't actually know" ?
The more oldies I speak to the more I relaize they haven't got a clue here in oz. If that's he case here with free access to information, imagine what it's like in ROM or Aegean or Pirin Macedonia!

[Risto the Great]

makedonche,
Your NEWS FLASH is more of a CONFIRMATION OF DANGEROUS LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF MACEDONIANS. The internet is supposed to help with the dissemination of this information so more people should know the truth. Yet we have people who should know better propagating these lies. Sad (bleak) times.

[Soldier of Macedon]

In other words, they have not shown the test of "grit, blood , sweat and tears" to be Macedonians on their own two feet in their own sovereign state?

Thankyou for your frank admission (we now can All see where you stand) but I think today's Macedonians would rather fight with their minds/wit ie marifet ie knack than how many limbs and lives they can loose or how much blood and tears they can shed!

Cave-man thinking Vs. reaching for the moon and stars and beyond.

And here is the contradicting cave-man himself:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=96305#post96305

No one should die.
No one should suffer.
Poor this, poor that.
You don't make an omelet without cracking eggs!

That's quite condescending coming from a tough guy like you, isn't it? You say one thing on a thread, and something else on another, you're nothing but an inconsistent bong-head that impulsively bursts out anything that springs to mind.

[fyrOM]

And here is the contradicting cave-man himself:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=96305#post96305

That's quite condescending coming from a tough guy like you, isn't it? You say one thing on a thread, and something else on another, you're nothing but an inconsistent bong-head that impulsively bursts out anything that springs to mind.

Absolutely NOT!

The fact that you are claiming the above citation as proof of my inconstancy says you didn't understand the post - nothing new, your ignorance is plain to see - or you have an agenda!

I have NEVER said it is wrong to pick up a gun if it was absolutely necessary! but even those times, I have ALLAYS said a strategy is needed - a gun without strategy is doom.

The Israelis did smuggle in weapons into Palestine and surprised the British garrison but they did so with a plan - a "WHAT NEXT" in mind - a concept which you have never demonstrated the capability of understanding!!!

Anybody can pick up a gun and sometimes surprise someone else with a gun - winning the battle does NOT mean winning the war - and IF the West wanted to obliterate the new Israelis they could have in a day! - NO more Jews, NO more Israel in one swoop!

The Israelis knew they stood NO CHANCE against the West - it would be a question of hours, not days! - and still went ahead because in their strategy they counted on public opinion being on their side and shaming the West into capitulation - which IS exactly what the West did. Their diaspora swung into action to Not Only prevent an attack on Israel but also garnered support and have Israel's actions declared "right and just". NOBODY JUST PICKED UP A GUN AND RAN FOR THE FRONT. OBLITERATION WAS AVOIDED - BY DESIGN and NOT LUCK! Get it????????

On the other-hand He-Man laments the fact Macedonia was the ONLY state to leave the Yugoslav Federation without a shot being fired! because had war happened it would have toughened up Macedonian's resolve and shaped their determination for a nation! Drop-kicks, there would Not have been a Macedonia if it came to war - what army did Macedonia have??? What strategy would have prevented obliteration???

Can you see the similarities between the 2 points - small army here, small army there! Yes, but....

Can you see the differences also???? - strategy and diaspora in a position to help get the West on side vs NO Strategy and West in No hurry to stop the Serbs bombing Macedonia to pieces, much like they stood back and watched eastern Croatia suffer huge losses. Get Real He-Men!!!

There is Nothing inconsistent in anything I have said. The fact you are trying to make-out like there is says you either have no clue or more likely, are grasping at straws to make me look illogical to then try and cast doubt on my other posts (he's just a nut, don't listen to him) - ie that the government has a plan and is putting action into it bit by bit.

Gees, your taking all the fun out of pointing out how dumb you are when you keep doing it for me!

[Stojacanec]

Fyrom, I disagree with you where ……if there was a war in Macedonia there would have been no Macedonia left. The Serbs committed atrocities in Bosnia, is there still a Bosnia? The Serbs did the same in Kosovo, is there still a Kosovo?

I understand there would be suffering but had there been a war, there still would have been a Macedonia. Why didn't the Serbs start something...? Because they knew the Macedonian land wasn’t rightfully theirs. They had no real reason to come in and fight for it.

For decades the policy was for a Macedonian soldier to serve in the Yugoslav army in another part of Yugoslavia, say Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia. That way Macedonia would have had a reputable army army but it was largely a disorganised one because of the denationalisation process.

I say reputable because it is only a nation of 2 million people.