International Court of Justice - Macedonia and Greece

[Vangelovski]

by closing the door on EU and NATO membership (which the majority of all citizens want):

- no more EU funding
- rise in ethnic tensions
- fall of government party

What a scaremongering fool! We will lose funding that we don't even receive from two organisations that we're not even members of, ethnic tensions will "rise" (as if they arn't at conflict level already) and his beloved DPMNE will "fall".

[Mactruth]

Indigen, you have given the over reaction of the century. Whether I post the information or not, these events are occurring. You want to simply ignore it? I think it's in the best Macedonian interest to know as much about the governments actions as possible.

I don't agree with the governments actions ps.

[George S.]

Volk when people know the whole truth that their name is used as a bargaining chip just so that they can enter eu & nato i'm sure the they won't want to join them What money are they going to get.What did bulgaria get.In practice it is a fact the recent countries joining have in fact given more than they got in return they are regretting ever joining the eu.

[indigen]

Indigen, you have given the over reaction of the century. Whether I post the information or not, these events are occurring. You want to simply ignore it? I think it's in the best Macedonian interest to know as much about the governments actions as possible.

I don't agree with the governments actions ps.

Since it is incorporated in your login id and in the domain name of these forums, do YOU know what "TRUTH" stands for? How much "UNTRUTH" (LIES AND DECEPTION masking TREASON!) is involved in the "news" that you posted? Do you think that in our MACEDONIAN STRUGGLE (CAUSE) for survival and justice against the external and INTERNAL (VASSAL TRAITORS and their appendages) enemies WE (Macedonians) should value "MACEDONIAN TRUTH" (which again is part of your login id and that of the forum domain name)?

The following song (and video clip) was in response to the Gligorov, Crvenkovski and Co sell-out capitulations of 1995 (and 1993, by implication), which Gruevski and Co are now trying to VALIDATE at the highest international level (ICJ):

MILA MAKEDONIJO
sung by Vojo Stojanovski

Bog da gi bie i ubie
predavnicite i dushmanite!
Bog da gi bie i ubie
kodoshite i janicharite!
Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
od svoite izrodi makedonski!
Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
od svoite izrodi makedonski!

So vekovi postoime,
so vekovi se borime!
Vera ne izgubivme,
ime ne promenivme!
Od Aleksandar i Samuil,
do Goce Delchev i den deneshen!
Od Aleksandar i Samuil,
do Goce Delchev i den deneshen!

Bog da gi bie i ubie
predavnicite i dushmanite!
Ime shto sakaat da ni promenat,
imeto nashe mnoguvekovno!
Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
od svoite izrodi makedonski!
Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
od svoite izrodi makedonski!
Mila Makedonijo, od niv stradash ti,
od svoite izrodi makedonski!

http://www.mkmuzika.com/lyrics/t/Mila_Makedonijo_-_Vojo.txt

YouTube - VOJO STOJANOSKI ''Mila Makedonijo''.

--------------

You can call me a "MAKEDONISTICHAR" if you want but I view the CAPITULATIONS of 1993, 1995, 2001 and the current DECONSTRUCTION AGENDAS as acts of TREASON by the VASSAL ruling elites in RM - NO IFS and NO BUTS!

[Bill77]

Indigen,

I can't see how the article is "GOVERNMENT PROPAGANDA". I look at it as the opposite to anything positive the government or those pushing it are portraying it to be.

Thank you Mactruth for posting it. I was once a fence sitter till articles such as these popped up.

EG:

Antonio Milososki at a press briefing on Thursday said that in its application, Macedonia requests ICJ to determine that Greece at the NATO summit in Bucharest in April 2008 breached Article 11 from the Interim Accord, i.e. it objected the NATO membership invitation for Macedonia, even though it would be referred to by the interim reference.

More evidence the government are happy with fyrom.

Milososki said, has requested during the proceedings the Republic of Macedonia to be addressed by its temporary reference in full

Milisoski requested the courts address us as "former yugoslav republic of macedonia" instead of insisting they address us as by our constitutional name "MACEDONIA"

the minister said that the Court's verdicts were final and binding for UN members

We all know this is bullshit. Its not binding, especially when its related to Greece. But thats not the point, the wishful thinking of this government clearly shows that its more than just a symbolic victory they aimed for. (victory in the governments eyes not mine indigen)


LOVE THE ABOVE SONG BY THE WAY

[Soldier of Macedon]

This thread has been merged with the other one relating to the ICJ disgrace of Macedonia. To all persons who have further articles and/or information regarding this topic, let's keep it on the one thread here, thanks.

[Soldier of Macedon]

lets play your game again:

Volk, I am not playing a 'game', I was genuinely interested in your elaboration of the previous points you made.

by closing the door on EU and NATO membership (which the majority of all citizens want):

Most Macedonians in Macedonia are in favour of this, but not if it means changing the name to gain entry. Isn't that still the case? The government is well aware that entry to these organisations almost certainly spells another name-change, and they have done absolutely nothing in terms of seeking contingencies.

- no more EU funding

What funding are we receiving at the moment, and how dependent are we on these funds?

- rise in ethnic tensions

That is inevitable with the extremists among the ethnic Albanians in Macedonia, whether now or 10 years from now. The moderate ethnic Albanians in Macedonia that respect the country in which they live should be integrated into the wider Macedonian society, and be given all the support to meet that end. They will either be with extremists, or with Macedonia, the choice is theirs in the end, but the current state of affairs and circumstances need to change so they can resemble a normal country once again. I truly hope that the moderate ethnic Albanians in Macedonia join the Turks, Roma, Vlachs and others in helping the Macedonians build Macedonia together. If their intention is to build something other than that, then they are in the wrong country. Sooner or later, this needs to be made plain and clear to them by a Macedonian government.

Are we not prepared to address them with proportional force should they(extremists) try to destabilise the country? If not, when do you think we will be prepared? Perhaps when we declare the FA void, and therefore rid ourselves of the requirement in which we are forced to have 25% ethnic Albanians in the army? How else would you suggest that this predicament changes, if not by discarding the FA? How else will we ever be prepared to defend the interests of our state?

- fall of government party

The only difference between them and SDS is that the former will wait another few more years before they dumb us down some more before making another capitulation, whereas the latter will do it tomorrow were they in power. It is clear that the regular Macedonian in the street, as usual, isn't prepared to do anything until the very last minute. Our track record has shown that we lack pre-emptive foresight, I hope this changes one day. Perhaps some attempts at outright treachery by SDS as opposed to the sugar-coated type displayed by DPNE is exactly what is needed for the Macedonian people to rise up against these lies and injustices, and say enough is enough, and topple this two-party regime. Stupid and sad, but probably true. At the end of the day, neither party is worthy of running Macedonia, and like I have said before, DPNE is only the lesser evil than SDS - but they are no better.

Macedonia should be ready for any economic and military embargos like it experienced inthe 90s. This means either full or partial self sufficiency for arms and energy. Embargos or threat of embargos can be used as levarage as they were before.

Has Macedonia overcome this threat?

Who will embargo Macedonia? Who will stop their supply of electricity and other necessities?

There is a difference between 'fearful' and mindful or ready for. And no I was reffering to the albanians. You seem to think they will give up thier war spoils with no opposition? justify your claim.

I am positive the extremists and their supporters will oppose such a move, but like I said above, this is inevitable. Waiting for them to give 'it' back isn't an option. Changes need to be made, and our sovereignty needs to be taken by us. Then we will deal with the consequences, which - I will say again, are inevitable. What sort of preparation do you think is required in this regard? I think we can both agree that we need to be militarily prepared to protect our interests. What else?

[Dimko-piperkata]

The UN's highest court will hold public hearings next week in the hopes of settling a 20-year-old row between Greece and Macedonia about the former Yugoslav state's name.

Macedonia will address the court on Monday and Tuesday, followed by Greece on Thursday and Friday, according to a schedule published by the International Court of Justice.

Both countries will make final statements on Monday and Tuesday the following week before the judges retire to consider their judgment.

In an application filed in November 2008, Macedonia claimed that Greece violated its rights by objecting to its application to join NATO.

It asked the court to order Greece "to cease and desist from objecting in any way, whether directly or indirectly, to (Macedonia's) membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation nor any other international multilateral and regional organisations and institutions of which (Greece) is a member."

The two countries have been at loggerheads since Macedonia proclaimed independence from the former Yugoslavia in 1991.

Greece has blocked Macedonia's bid to join the European Union and NATO until it changes the name, which is the same as that of a northern Greek province.

Athens says the use of the name implies a claim on Greek territory.

UN-led negotiations have proven fruitless.

Macedonia was recognised by the United Nations in 1993 under the name Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM).

More than 120 nations, including Russia and the United States, have recognised the landlocked Balkan country under its constitutional name: Republic of Macedonia.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/article976272.ece/Macedonia-name-dispute

[fyrOM]

The REAL truth....

Indigen, you have given the over reaction of the century. Whether I post the information or not, these events are occurring. You want to simply ignore it? I think it's in the best Macedonian interest to know as much about the governments actions as possible.

Wrap it up any tighter and it'll pop.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Was there a point to your post, or are you quickly becoming completely irrelevant to this forum? Here is some real truth, you supported the notion of Macedonia entering NATO and the EU under a name other than the official one of the state. Why would anybody, much less another Macedonian, take a spineless fool like you seriously?

[fyrOM]

Was there a point to your post, or are you quickly becoming completely irrelevant to this forum?

Is the plain and self-evident starting to be Not clear?
Events are occurring, right?
You may Not like them.
Does your (collective) Not liking stop the events occurring? - No
If you intend to change things, don't you Need to know what's happening first???
If the mere sight of something causes a dummy-spit then how are you going to know about it in order to change things?
Jumping on the messenger doesn't change what's going on nor the message of it.
Purpose of jumping on the messenger/message??? - who knows

[Vangelovski]

fyrOM,

You need to contact the closest drug rehabilitation centre as soon as possible. Your "free thinking" is nothing more than 'the government knows best and we should trust them'.

[osiris]

Wow ozimak is now the mortal enemy of Macedonia. lets not make this forum one dimensional with a rigid party line otherwise it will become as sterile and irrelevant as maknews. I think he has copped enough abuse and I am surprised that this is happening to this forum.

[Risto the Great]

fyrOM is nothing more than a whipping post.
His scare campaign is a mirror of all that has crippled the Macedonian Republic over the last 100 years.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Purpose of jumping on the messenger/message??? - who knows

Perhaps Indigen did jump the gun, but it was pertinent to the topic, your post was completely irrelevant, like many as of late. I suggest you start becoming a little more constructive.


Osiris, the MTO is one dimensional in one way only - in terms of supporting the Macedonian Cause. We have never prevented others from expressing their thoughts, and we will not going forward, but we will not allow people to continually spread anti-Macedonian propaganda or counter-productive activities, or welcome such sentiments with open arms, like what was taking place at maknews. Therefore, your parallels with maknews are unfounded and quite frankly, a little insulting. The reason why that forum went down is because people like this rambler and others that think alike prevailed. If you haven't been adequately following the threads and all of the comments made, then spend the time to do so before you start passing judgement and alluding to false allegations.