Financial Crisis in Greece

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thanks for your warm welcome guys.

I found this forum on Google by coincidence and when i read some threads, i was totally surprised by the quality and significance of the messages.

So i am quite sure that there are intelligent people with knowledge of history here


And yes i will try to contribute as much as possible since all my parents are from Balkans



Peace from Turkey

Welcome Onur.

[Risto the Great]

Personally, Id trade that for the Rennaisance, and the years of the 'enlightenment/knowledge' age we missed out on.
But thats just me.

What an interesting forum question.
I think that would be me as well. The Balkans were the Africa of Europe back 200 years ago. What a shame.

[Risto the Great]

Thanks for your warm welcome guys.

I found this forum on Google by coincidence and when i read some threads, i was totally surprised by the quality and significance of the messages.

So i am quite sure that there are intelligent people with knowledge of history here


And yes i will try to contribute as much as possible since all my parents are from Balkans



Peace from Turkey

Onur, you sound like a gentleman. Welcome to our forum. We hope that intelligent dialogue will always prevail and that we can all move forward with more respect for each other based on our obvious commonality ..... being human beings!

hoşgeldin

[Spartan]

What an interesting forum question.
I think that would be me as well. The Balkans were the Africa of Europe back 200 years ago. What a shame.

A crying shame Risto...oh well
It is what it is, and we move on.

[Soldier of Macedon]

An 'attribute' that Western Europeans have which we lack in the East is the ability to kill and be killed by your neighbour and then shake hands the next day. In that regard, I am not sure that the Balkans have moved on at all.

[Mikail]

So true SoM. Greece would be the biggest of the "Hangers on" in the Balkans.

If todays Greeks could move on and come to terms with their own ethnicity, the world would be a happier place to live in!

[Pelister]

I think that making contacts with the German media might go a long way. If they can see the hypocrisy and an opening to write relatively "sensational" articles about the topic (which is hot right now), it might be a great opening for the ill treatment of Macedonians to get some airplay in Germany at least.

From this perspective the general population in Germany will have an added reason to disapprove of German handouts. This might affect the way they vote in the future, and therefore the politicians they elect.

I think Rogi has alluded to an approach along similar lines in previous topics before the latest nazi statements

It would be good if we could "inform" German media outlets and agencies (I'm not sure how) of certain facts about Greek statistics, not only in the field of economics, but in other ares, such as demographics and history. To point out various "practices" that are dishonest ... etc. Its a sound strategy. There is alot of public opinion in Europe going against the Greeks, but unfortunately its all about its economy. It could be a way to raise other issues of Greeks, and raise the profile of our defence of our rights, but how exactly? Is it simply a matter of flicking various media agencies a letter, or a media release? Or something a little more technical, like courting journalists?

[Mikail]

We had a few "German" brothers in MakNews. Have they come over to MTO? They would know how to get some things thru' to German media

[julie]

A crying shame Risto...oh well
It is what it is, and we move on.

Spartan, how do we move on from these atrocities when the Greeks proudly parade and chant they will make clothes out of Macedonian skin?
Or is this something to be condoned because it is Greece after all!!!

[fyrOM]

Julie I don’t know Spartan so I cannot judge his position accurately from the posts I have read since joining the MTO but I would hate to pin him up as the poster boy of Greece and all things Greek. The tone of some of the posts don’t sit completely comfortable with me. Am I misinterpreting the tone of the posts - maybe.

[Spartan]

Spartan, how do we move on from these atrocities when the Greeks proudly parade and chant they will make clothes out of Macedonian skin?
Or is this something to be condoned because it is Greece after all!!!

Julie, Im talking about 'moving on' in regards to us missing out on the rennaisance and the centuries of "enlightenment/knowledge" .

I already said that I dont condone those chants.

[julie]

cheers Spartan.
I misunderstood and did not read the whole thread

Ozimak, I have found Spartan respectful and courteous, and no, he is not a poster boy for all things Greek at all, brat.

[Spartan]

Thank you Julie.

[Onur]

if you ask the Arabic countries they will probably name Turkey as the least Islamic country because there its Illegal to mix religion with politics and education, there are laws in the Turkish Constitution written from the Ataturk era that are still valid and cannot be erased, when i was in Turkey i saw Photo Frames of Ataturk everywhere even at the airports he is like a god to them, they call him the father of Turkey.

Its Illegal for Women to wear head Scarfs in Parliament and University. The Current Government tried to overturn the ruling but they couldnt do it.

Prolet, you are right. Turkey has a strict secular system since 1923 and it cannot be changed. Its strictly forbidden to enter parliament, university, schools(except religious clergy ones) with any symbol signifies any religion including islam. Also head scarfs are also forbidden at those constitutions.

Our current government who labels themselves as conservative with islamic values, tried to overturn this law last year only for the usage of head scarfs in universities but Turkish supreme court canceled their attempts and said its against the secular constitution of Turkey. Since then, there are strong opposition to the ruling conservative party and most likely, they will go away in the elections of 2011.

Ataturk made these laws and yes we consider him as a father because after WW-1, England abolished Turkey`s military. After that, five countries tried to occupy whole Turkey, all at the same time but Ataturk led the Turkish people and he was the mastermind of "the war of independence". He organized guerrilla warfare first because Turkey had no army. He was able to establish new army after 1 year and beat British and Greece at west, Italians at south, French and Armenia at the east of Turkey, throw them all out of Anatolia. At 1923, he abolished Ottoman Empire and created today`s Republic of Turkey. I still personally cannot believe how Turkey made all that.



Since we are republic and have those secular rules, most Arabs doesn't even consider Turkey as an islamic country like you said. Since alcohol drinks and stuff is not forbidden in Turkey unlike other islamic countries and for all other differences. I don't believe in any religion myself but i surely know, the conception of islam is very different in Turkey than Arabic countries not only since the republic but since Turkey`s conversion since 12th century.


Actually, while Turks had shamanistic beliefs, they cooperated with Byzantium Empire for like 150 years to stop the spreading Arabs and Islam to enter Anatolia and this alliance was sealed with the marriages between Byzantium Emperors and Turkish Khagan`s daughters. They gave birth sons who became Emperors laters. So, Byzantium royal family was half Turkish, half Greek after 8th Century.

I bet you guys never heard this because Greeks doesn't like to tell this side of the history.





Turks at Anatolia learned islam from classical Persian "dervishes" but masses accepted islam at 13th century because of "Mevlana Rumi" and his dervish followers with their "Sufi" beliefs. "Rumi" is half Persian, half Turkish and he lived in "Konia" at central Anatolia. You probably know the whirling dervishes entering trance state and their mystical way of life.



Especially "Rumi"`s poems are even popular in western world now too;

Madonna(singer) - Bittersweet(A poem of Rumi)

YouTube - Bittersweet - Madonna

The words in his poems are amazing tough if you consider that its written in 13th century!






LOL, i found this at youtube now, American Dervishes of USA!!! doing their ritual at Istanbul. Turkish musicians playing the dervish ritual music of 13th Century;

YouTube - Sema Ceremony of the Whirling Dervishes


Also all the people at Balkans who accepted islam at Ottoman times are also affected from these dervish people and "Sufi" belief, not from Arabic way of islam.

[Prolet]

Onur, Thats because the Arabs use the Wahhabi version on Islam which is far more radical and not peaceful at all. Did you know that Kemal Mustafa Ataturk's parents are from Centar Zhupa which is very close to Debar? Thats where Ataturk's memorial house is being built, either way Ataturk has done alot for Turkey and gained alot of respect from the others.

Turkey has every right to join the EU, i think the countries there wont allow it because Turkey is a country of 70 million people and it has the ability to rip the EU Economy to shreds, some say that it will lead to mass immigration of Turkey to the EU but the Turks are already in the EU just look at Germany,UK,Belgium,France,Austria,Italy,Switzerlan d etc there are many Turks there.

What do you think of the US Supreme Court recently approving the Armenian Genocide Bill? The Turkish Ambassador was recalled to Ankara.