Financial Crisis in Greece

[Ljubanec]

Yet your beloved moron who is currently PM of Macedonia is STILL negotiating with Greece, the country that wants Macedonia eliminated.

SOM some might interpret your statement as baiting me into an argument. I am not here to fight with you, because if you lost you would find some Macedonian that is not from the diaspora to blame. Rather than take your frustrations out on people that don't agree with your self loathing and apathetic views maybe you should try to be a little more positive?

[Phoenix]

There are no negotiations, the made up question of Macedonia's name is a way for the great powers to keep their options open as to what they want to do with the region.

Macedonia is yet to have a real leader which is not a direct puppet.

People need to move on from this silly notion that Macedonia is on the agenda of the 'great powers' for regional domination and that the name is the means to that end.

The name issue is a self inflicted wound, committed by a succession of spineless, self-interested traitors that have put their own personal gain ahead of a people's entire history and culture.

The so called "great powers" couldn't give a fuck about the name, they just see some spineless sellouts that can be easily bought and traded for the promise of fools gold. For the "great powers" it's merely the path of least resistance to an otherwise mundane problem.

[Vangelovski]

People need to move on from this silly notion that Macedonia is on the agenda of the 'great powers' for regional domination and that the name is the means to that end.

The name issue is a self inflicted wound, committed by a succession of spineless, self-interested traitors that have put their own personal gain ahead of a people's entire history and culture.

The so called "great powers" couldn't give a fuck about the name, they just see some spineless sellouts that can be easily bought and traded for the promise of fools gold. For the "great powers" it's merely the path of least resistance to an otherwise mundane problem.

I could not have said this better myself.

The "great powers" is also part of the Macedonians' 'blame game' of its everyones fault but our own that our country is in shambles.

[Soldier of Macedon]

.........i anyway, refute the fact that Gruevski has accepted what Greece with the condonement of the so-called 'Great Powers has imposed.

They depended on Gruevski having some sort of spine and naturally defend Macedonian dignity and not capitulate which would have been a surprise at first, then ultimately this willingness became music to their ears knowing how weak and pathetic he is to fall for a pathetic unfair demand.

How can you disagree that he has accepted negotiating the identity of Macedonia yet talk of his willingness to engage in negotiating the identity of Macedonia? Explain it to me.

My point is, the powers don't really give two hoots about the name issue its just an excuse to keep Macedonia segregated.

You overestimate the importance of Macedonia to the 'Great Powers'. Like they give 'two hoots' about keeping Macedonia segregated. Read Phoenix's post, he sums it up pretty well.

SOM some might interpret your statement as baiting me into an argument.

I don't highly rate discourse with people who kiss Gruevski's arse, so no, I wasn't baiting you. And if some (like who, you?) think I was, then they obviously haven't taken note of your previous statements.

I am not here to fight with you........

Are you sure about that? The only time you seem to post is when you want to criticise the comments that we make, just because we are prepared to show some integrity and honesty. The truth hurts, I know, but better to tell it how it is rather than sell more fluff to our own people. They've seen enough.

.........because if you lost you would find some Macedonian that is not from the diaspora to blame.

I can't lose against somebody like you, and that will remain the case so long as you continue to support the traitors of Macedonia. The second part of your above line is wrong, irrelevant and stupid.

Rather than take your frustrations out on people that don't agree with your self loathing and apathetic views maybe you should try to be a little more positive?

I am frustrated with the traitors of Macedonia, and the dumb Macedonians who support them. You're not naive of what is going on in Macedonia, yet you argue against our views just for the sake of arguing, most probably because you're on some sort of idiotic agenda to make us look bad. You've failed miserably, and you'll continue to do so until you accept the truth for what it is.

[Onur]

Finally the Greek drama is about to end soon;

EU trade commissioner Karel De Gucht claimed that the European Commission and the European Central Bank were working on an emergency scenario for a Greek exit from the euro and a British money printing company are working for the new Drachma for Greece because of possible sudden demand of new currency.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/delarue-greece-idUSL5E8GI5I720120518

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/05/18/greek-crisis-british-money-drachma_n_1526903.html

[Brian]

People need to move on from this silly notion that Macedonia is on the agenda of the 'great powers' for regional domination

Really?
So you've never heard of the saying, "He who controls Macedonia controls the Balkans"?

They already have secured 3 of the 4 parts.

If Macedonia really doesn't matter then why not roll-forward with recognising RoM or let Macedonia in NATO even as FYROM despite the ICJ? - if Macedonia is so insignificant then why bother wasting resources on the matter?

and that the name is the means to that end.

Really?
So the Albanians saying they want the EU and NATO and threatening to split the country up and leave if they don't get it isn't an internal pressure while Greece is given a 'blind-eye' to Veto RoM from being able to quieten the internal pressure by getting into the EU and NATO even as FYROM in violation of the IA and also in violation of the IJC not external pressure? Where's the justice? Doesn't the USA/West say they are all about justice and the rule of law including international treaties? You don't consider that external pressure from the USA/West via proxy Greece?

If we don't count for so much then why bother so much?
If they don't really care about the name then why not just call it RoM and Southern Macedonia/Aegean Macedonia, ect. Problem solved. Or is it? The name is a can of worms they don't want to open because it would lead to another question and then further another one and so on until the whole dirty secret is laid bare and exposes them for the lying, cheating manipulative scum they are. Have you not notice how careful they are to present each new conflict/war with a cover-story portraying the USA/West as ALWAYS just and righteous?

The name issue is a self inflicted wound, committed by a succession of spineless, self-interested traitors that have put their own personal gain ahead of a people's entire history and culture.

It's both external (re see above internal and external pressure) and self inflicted - it should never have started as a problem and the Albanians should never have been allowed to gain such leverage.

The so called "great powers" couldn't give a fuck about the name, they just see some spineless sellouts that can be easily bought and traded for the promise of fools gold. For the "great powers" it's merely the path of least resistance to an otherwise mundane problem.

What problem would that be.

@ALL
I don't know who first posted it to give credit to them but the video of Parenti on the break-up of Yugoslavia hits some key notes about the Albanians in Kosovo and Macedonia even though the focus is on Kosovo.
see
"Brian's Corner" Post557
( http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...t=6094&page=56 )

with highlight quotes from the video.

[Ljubanec]

I don't highly rate discourse with people who kiss Gruevski's arse, so no, I wasn't baiting you. And if some (like who, you?) think I was, then they obviously haven't taken note of your previous statements.

Are you sure about that? The only time you seem to post is when you want to criticise the comments that we make, just because we are prepared to show some integrity and honesty. The truth hurts, I know, but better to tell it how it is rather than sell more fluff to our own people. They've seen enough.

I can't lose against somebody like you, and that will remain the case so long as you continue to support the traitors of Macedonia. The second part of your above line is wrong, irrelevant and stupid.

I am frustrated with the traitors of Macedonia, and the dumb Macedonians who support them. You're not naive of what is going on in Macedonia, yet you argue against our views just for the sake of arguing, most probably because you're on some sort of idiotic agenda to make us look bad. You've failed miserably, and you'll continue to do so until you accept the truth for what it is.

I think you are frustrated in other ways as well. Maybe you should try cold showers. You're right I'm not naive, but I am not arguing about what you are saying in as much as how you are saying it. Your complaining like a punk and baiting me into an argument. You are really childish and I can honestly say I haven't seen anyone like this since high school. I am not glad that Albanians read your comments here and get a good laugh. You SOM, are a joke. You make me and all Macedonians look bad. You are not Macedonian. You are a loser. You might think they are synonomous with all your complaining, but you are wrong.

[DedoAleko]

Greece No Longer a Nation; Announces Plan to Become Social Network
IPO Imminent for FetaBook



ATHENS (The Borowitz Report) – After struggling for months with an intractable financial crisis, Greece announced today that it would cease to exist as a sovereign nation and would instead reboot itself as a social network.

The new entity, FetaBook, is expected to raise much-needed billions in an upcoming IPO.

The social network formerly known as Greece announced that it would cancel its upcoming elections and instead install a CEO, a 24-year-old hacker from suburban Athens named Ciro Mavromatidis.

Speaking from the newly opened offices of FetaBook, Mr. Mavromatidis explained how the social network would be attractive to the investment community in ways that Greece was not.

“We’re keeping all the aspects of Greece that made it a cool brand – the ruins, the Olympics, the olives,” he said. “We’re just losing the things that were a drag on the Greek economy: namely, the Greeks.”

He said under the new plan, all Greeks would cease to be citizens of Greece and would instead become friends of FetaBook: “They won’t receive any government benefits anymore, but they’ll be able to grow all the imaginary food they want.”

Mr. Mavromatidis said that by converting from a nation to a social network, FetaBook will enjoy other cost savings as well.

“We Greeks waste billions of dollars a year smashing plates after meals,” he said. “Now that’s going to be done by an app.”

izvor: http://www.borowitzreport.com/

[Brian]

Voltron
Big difference between dogs and weapons of war, don't you think?
Preventative measures could also include nuking the places these people are coming from, cost effective and instantaneous! There are many ideas and useful suggestions that I could put forward, but unless you or your country searches for other means and discovers what works, in a costly and efficient manner, then no amount of ideas any one else comes up with will work, for the idea to be embraced and implemented it must come from within - this is known as "makedonche's law".

PS more tomorrow - that's enough time off, back to work!

Good grief give it a rest, you're sounding silly.

"makedonche's law"???
I think people might confuse your login ID with Macedonians in general and you're making us look bad. What is it with Macos from Australia?

You've been chasing Voltron over successive posts and sounding more absurder as you go along - he said landminds, not nukes ect. Your argument sounds like eg someone told you to, "punch that guy in the face", and using your logic it's like you replied, "well if punching someone hurts then, and if you want me to hurt them, then why don't I just take an axe to their head, it will definitely do a better job if hurting them is what you want". Duhhh...like there's a reason why it was JUST punch them in the face there also is a reason why it's JUST landminds and not other things you mentioned - limmit the action.

Also you're sounding like a bleeding-heart liberal trendy greenie nut job.

Get it through your head - YOU CANNOT HELP EVERYONE WHO COMES TO YOUR DOOR and NOR SHOULD YOU BE OBLIGED TO.

Send them home, in my opinion, and if it takes landmines to keep them back then so be it because they certainly are not going to be polite and civil and just accept your 'No' and turn back.

There are literally billions, with a B, of people in Asia and Africa who want to live in the EU or West and it is a never ending stream of great numbers.

Many cannot afford the trip but out of so many Billions, that even if a small percentage can afford the trip, it still means many millions. How would you like RoM to become 90% Asian, 5% Macedonian, 3% Albanian and 2% other - it would certainly solve the Albanian problem, why don't you write a letter to Gruevski and suggest it to him.

[Brian]

Greece No Longer a Nation; Announces Plan to Become Social Network
IPO Imminent for FetaBook

Wasn't the first rule in their constitution that you just had to 'feel' Greek to be Greek. Kind of like 'poking' someone and if they 'friend' you, you're in, you're a 'Fetabook'.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think you are frustrated in other ways as well. Maybe you should try cold showers.

Now you're just trying to pass off your own issues like they're mine. It won't work.

You're right I'm not naive, but I am not arguing about what you are saying in as much as how you are saying it.

I call Gruevski a traitor for negotiating the identity of Macedonia. When I do this you whine, assuming that Gruevski is playing out his master plan. Yet you supposedly disagree with the negotiations that Gruevski has engaged in for his whole time as PM. Get your head of your arse you conflicted fool.

I am not glad that Albanians read your comments here and get a good laugh.

Albanians don't laugh at me mate, they laugh at idiots like you who support the traitors of Macedonia that are handing the country over to them on a silver platter.

You make me and all Macedonians look bad.

Macedonians like me have integrity. Macedonians like you are the problem in our society. Those who aren't naive yet still support traitors.

You are not Macedonian.

Even though you're an agitating moron, I have never denied that you're Macedonian. If you ever make such a statement about me again, it will be your last here. I am sick and tired of wasting my time with another UMD maggot, and I am also bored with asking you to become relevant. Why are you still here if you don't agree with our approach? Haven't you got some other forum to go to where you and your fellow Gruevisti can arse-slap each other and worship your messiah and his 'master plan'? If you want to be pro-Gruevski, fine, but either work on your attitude or get lost, before I make you disappear. I won't be telling you again.

[Phoenix]

Really?
So you've never heard of the saying, "He who controls Macedonia controls the Balkans"?
.

Brian, maybe you need to drag yourself out of the Middle Ages.
perhaps your saying had some relevance several hundred years ago but I doubt it has any today.

How are the "great powers" inconvenienced one way or the other, by Macedonia's name.
You're taking my quotes and adding your typically outlandish conspiracy theories into your amalgam of madness.

If Macedonia really doesn't matter then why not roll-forward with recognising RoM or let Macedonia in NATO even as FYROM despite the ICJ? - if Macedonia is so insignificant then why bother wasting resources on the matter?.

Listen up, Macedonia is insignificant in terms of political power, economic power and military power, on a regional basis, let alone on the world stage.
That mix of limited 'power' coupled with political incompetence at the highest levels of office in Macedonia is deadly in terms of Macedonia asserting any influence over this senseless name issue.

I think you underestimate the power and image that the EU and NATO project when dealing with such issues.
In the current climate of economic uncertainty in the EU and Eurozone countries and the continuing questioning of the modern relevance of NATO, do you think either organization is prepared to risk further damage by not showing a united front in support of the greek position.
Do you really think they're going to side with a new member and risk splitting the group by going against greece, no matter how stupid the greek position is?
That should show you the significance of Macedonia on the global stage, there's no conspiracy, no NWO agenda, just plain old insignificance coupled with a huge dose of political incompetence and treachery on the Macedonian side.

[George S.]

The powers that be are supporting the greeks in terms of their veto to nato & eu.From what i have heard the power of veto is extremely strong.Even if a majority of the eu supports macedonia the veto stands.So macedonia is in a no win situation even before it stands.The other thing the greeks can allways veto macedonia whils't they are in the eu.Gruevski has chosen the stupid approach rather than refuse to negotiate the name.The name is our name is macedonia.We have been sold out allready by a leader willing to compromise & capitulate on our name just to get into nato or the eu.Think about how stupid that is.Just recently the greeks have let on after 23 years of gruevski's et all negotiations they are getting bored,they don't want any of it to go on.So what does gruevski do,he wants to keep negotiating still.So we are really asking for trouble,it would be in our interest to call it off.Gruevski take the hint you are a bloody joke & a disgrace.No other leader would dare do what you have done.

[makedonche]

Good grief give it a rest, you're sounding silly.

"makedonche's law"???
I think people might confuse your login ID with Macedonians in general and you're making us look bad. What is it with Macos from Australia?

You've been chasing Voltron over successive posts and sounding more absurder as you go along - he said landminds, not nukes ect. Your argument sounds like eg someone told you to, "punch that guy in the face", and using your logic it's like you replied, "well if punching someone hurts then, and if you want me to hurt them, then why don't I just take an axe to their head, it will definitely do a better job if hurting them is what you want". Duhhh...like there's a reason why it was JUST punch them in the face there also is a reason why it's JUST landminds and not other things you mentioned - limmit the action.

Also you're sounding like a bleeding-heart liberal trendy greenie nut job.

Get it through your head - YOU CANNOT HELP EVERYONE WHO COMES TO YOUR DOOR and NOR SHOULD YOU BE OBLIGED TO.

Send them home, in my opinion, and if it takes landmines to keep them back then so be it because they certainly are not going to be polite and civil and just accept your 'No' and turn back.

There are literally billions, with a B, of people in Asia and Africa who want to live in the EU or West and it is a never ending stream of great numbers.

Many cannot afford the trip but out of so many Billions, that even if a small percentage can afford the trip, it still means many millions. How would you like RoM to become 90% Asian, 5% Macedonian, 3% Albanian and 2% other - it would certainly solve the Albanian problem, why don't you write a letter to Gruevski and suggest it to him.

Brian
I will give you a detailed response in due course, in the interim I'll just put you on notice that this sort of driblle will cost you dearly, I have always tried to look at your posts with objectivity and provide support when I believed you were right or refrained from joining the chorus of posters who thought you are a lunatic.........congratulations on proving them right! More to follow...fortuneately I work for a living and don't have a lot of time to post pages of absolute garbage and create thread afte thread of bullshit which has no relevance to the MTO or Macedonians in general....more to follow!

[Brian]

Brian, maybe you need to drag yourself out of the Middle Ages.
perhaps your saying had some relevance several hundred years ago but I doubt it has any today.

How are the "great powers" inconvenienced one way or the other, by Macedonia's name.
You're taking my quotes and adding your typically outlandish conspiracy theories into your amalgam of madness.

No conspiracy theories, just facts.
Greece has been and continues to be a solid base for the West from which they guard Israel, Middle-East, Egypt and the Suez Canal.

Greece proper (minus Macedonia) would, apart from being a smaller and hence an easier target, not be able to sustain herself and grow as a country. If Greece is non-viable then your security base is also non-viable.

If you only think in terms of WW3 and 'push a few buttons' then none of those places have any real relevance, but that's not all there is to power and war even these days let alone the significance over just the last 100 years ie no need to look at the middle-ages.

Listen up, Macedonia is insignificant in terms of political power, economic power and military power, on a regional basis, let alone on the world stage.
That mix of limited 'power' coupled with political incompetence at the highest levels of office in Macedonia is deadly in terms of Macedonia asserting any influence over this senseless name issue.

Yes we know their piss-weak and would throw their own grand-mother under a bus for money.

I think you underestimate the power and image that the EU and NATO project when dealing with such issues.

This is a quote from the video of Parenti on Rome.
The number is the time stamp on the video.

"22.55 (about Rome) That policy which pretends to aspire to peace but generates war,
the policy of continual preparation for war, the policy of meddlesome interventionism,
there was no corner of the known world where some interest was not alleged to be in danger or under actual attack...
the fight was always invested with an aura of legality...
(is this not what the West does with every war?)"

Is this not what the West do? Have they EVER been morally wrong in ANY war? They take such extreme care to ALWAYS maintain an image of proper behaviour and moral conduct.

It first gives them the ability to 'sell' a war to their own public - you need approval, funding and bodies to die from their public - and if it is a 'good fight' you'll have idiots running to the recruitment office to sign up.

But what if you told your public we're going into Vietnam because the weapons industry is going stagnant and they want to flog-off their old equipment at hugely inflated prices to then have the funds to pump into new research and development, oh and give themselves multi-million dollar bonuses for coming up with the idea. Do you still want to go to war and die for us or send your kid to die?

No???

What if we told you that your boy will be fighting to secure the drug trade worth billions for us (I do me us, not you and I) so we can sell it to your younger kid whole go into prostitution (it's a public service you know, it helps keep rape down) to pay for her drug habit and if your boy doesn't die there he'll come back with drug and mental problems that will plague him for the rest of his life and if by some chance he does get married your grand-kids have a very high chance of being born deformed from all the chemicals we sprayed on your son.

Still want to send your kid to war? - sign here, please?

Or hows about the story of how the USA and the West helped these piss-weak excuse for a human beings create a country and then helped them burn hundreds of villages rapping and murdering because we wanted the locals land. Oh, and later after WW2 the dumb local just wanted their land back so we bombed them with napalm, it's this new thing we got which is like spraying men with petrol and setting them alight or the phosphorus bombs which are like burning a hole through a man with an acetylene torch. Come on, be a guy and send your son to help us. It means the difference between millions and Trillions to our fat bankers in Manhattan.

Do you think many USA Americans would go for that?

Image is what counts - the one where we're always right and just.

Help us bomb the Serbs because Milosovic wont let us send occupying troops into Kosovo an Serbia so we can take all the mineral wealth out of Kosovo and Bosnia. If it will make you feel better we'll stage a bomb in the market (fact - the pretence for bombing Serbia) killing a hundred or so and blame it on the Serbs. Go on, send your boy to help us out.

What about just bombing the Albanians there? It's easier to do some 'horse trading' and make them help us dig the stuff out and give them a free hand in dealing drugs and prostitution and trafficking in women and children. We'll even let your boy have fun with a 12 year old if that will convince you to let him go fight for us - it's ok, we have a few thousand on stand-by so he'll definitely get one if you want.

What do you say Mr. Average USA Citizen, do we have a deal or what?

Image, not reality is what makes wars happen.

How do we now tell those dumb locals they were right all along?

Macedonia is a can of worms they don't want to open 'less the truth comes out, and keep coming out until dry-reach.

Still think Macedonia doesn't count? As nothing more than a thumbprint on a map, No, but as an idea or a principle, hell yeah.

Watch the Parenti video.

In the current climate of economic uncertainty in the EU and Eurozone countries and the continuing questioning of the modern relevance of NATO, do you think either organization is prepared to risk further damage by not showing a united front in support of the greek position.
Do you really think they're going to side with a new member and risk splitting the group by going against greece, no matter how stupid the greek position is?

Why do you think it would split either group? They can't just nail the Greeks down with a bit of 'persuasion'?

No, it's better if Macedonia disappears - everyone gets to be happy, well almost everyone - the Albanians get Greater Albania, Greece keeps her 'bread-basket' and we get the minerals and get to keep our dirty little secret hidden.

That should show you the significance of Macedonia on the global stage, there's no conspiracy, no NWO agenda, just plain old insignificance coupled with a huge dose of political incompetence and treachery on the Macedonian side.

Read above and watch the video. There's a very big conspiracy (ies).

If Macedonia IS so insignificant then why not just let RoM be what they want, rename Macedonia (in Greece) to South/Aegean Macedonia "so there's no confusion" and let 'nature take it's course' in Kosovo and RoM? Problem(s) solved, easy!