Financial Crisis in Greece

[Niko777]

Here is the author's personal webpage.
Thank you Onur for posting the article.

[Sputnik]

VOLTRON, by the sounds of your post above, you are a perfect example of what George Zarkadakis would call "fraudster, liar". Why are you still in denial?

You do not live in a utopian place where you are related, and are as glorious as the ancient Hellenes. Such fantasies is what holds your nation back, it gives you false senses, that it makes you feel something special, untouchable, a unique race above everyone else, which all this leads to becoming indolent sloths. You must move fwd. How can one move fwd and not fall when they are blinded? Its time you breakaway from this dogma and no longer rely on (this non existent) history carrying you on its shoulders.

George Zarkadakis; " Although their bonds with the land, the ruined temples, the living Greek language, the names and the myths were strong and rich, they were not walking around in white cloaks wearing laurels on their heads. They were Christian orthodox, conservative and fiercely antagonistic toward their governing institutions....."

And they were Albanian speaking Christian orthodox, such as soldiers in grk army http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=3841

The first president, an Albanian speaking George Konduriottes who could not speak a word of modern Greek http://www.macedoniantruth.org/2009/...albanian-1824/

During the times where Athens was an Albanian village, http://pzdl.info/L.php?u=Oi8vd3d3Lm1...dW50PTE%3D&b=7

[Onur]

Here is the author's personal webpage.
Thank you Onur for posting the article.

Thanks to you and here is what i found in his website;

Some further comments on my article in The Washington Post
What has been happening with Greece over the past several months is not of significance to Greeks only.Greece is the canary in the mine; the metaphorical mine being in this case the European Union. Greece is dying because the European, social-democratic welfare state is falling apart.Greece is the first victim because it is an economically weak country where the welfare state has been elevated, and abused, to the nth degree.

In my article I attempted to explore the cultural reasons that could have caused such an abuse of the welfare state in Greece. The main question that I’m trying to answer is this: is there something in the culture of Greeks that makes them adopt, without really questioning, the idea of a welfare state? This question is crucial to understanding why the Greek Left has been driving the political agenda of the country since the 1980s, and whether there can be any hope whatsoever that Greece may liberalize its markets, reduce its deficits, tap in the creativity of its business people and innovators, and move on and away from its perennial misery.

To provide a conclusive answer the my question one must first try to understand Greek culture. Here the problem, not unlike a case of national schizophrenia, is that “Greek culture” has two personalities. One is the “official” personality taught at Greek schools, projected in touristic billboards and widely accepted internationally: that modern Greeks are, somehow, descendents of ancient Greeks. My article in The Washington Post focused on that, in an attempt to bust the myth.

The “other” personality of Greek culture – the real one, in my opinion – is more complex; one must pick up the story not in the times of classical Greece but in the late Middle Ages, in late Byzantium. For interested readers I shall return in a future post with more detail on that.

So, in summary,Greece is a country inhabited by a people whose values are very different from the mainly protestant values and ethics that have shaped, and defined, western institutions of democratic government. When Greece became an independent state in 1830 those institutions were readily introduced in the assumption that Greece was just another European country. It was not. The result of this cultural misunderstanding (the one I am focusing in my Washington Post article), is that Greeks have been systematically undermining their governments since then.

Because of this, Greece has never been truly independent but always relied on foreign capital and protection. As long as money flowed in Greece from abroad Greece was kept afloat. Whenever the money supply was interrupted Greece defaulted.

So what happened to the money? I guess everyone in the world knows the answer to this question nowadays. It was used by the political class to bloat the public sector, a quid pro quo exchange between voters and politicians.

Greece will remain forever in this trap, unless it finds a cure for its cultural schizophrenia. Greeks must reject the imagined culture imposed upon them by European romantics and several of their own intellectuals, and embrace their real cultural identity. When they do so they must then redesign their political institutions in order to reflect their true social and cultural values.

November 6, 2011

http://georgezarkadakis.com/2011/11/...shington-post/

When i read this, i remembered my conversation with a Greek guy nicknamed as John here. The main post was about Albanian and Turkish lookalike habits of modern Greeks and the so-called orientalisation of the Greeks by the Turks!!! Thats what i wrote there last year;

There is one fundamental mistake about the conception of Greeks, whether ancient or modern by the western Europeans. Especially the 18-19th century western European scholars had this misconception.

First of all, Greeks didn't became "orientalized" by the Turks because they already had oriental culture. Today, we know that most of the eastern Roman empire`s political system was taken from ancient Persians. So, Byzantine empire was not a western empire. Orthodoxy is an oriental sect of christianity too. I cannot say that ancient Greeks had western culture either. Already in the era of ancient Greeks, there was no such a thing called "western culture". All the world was eastern only at that time, nothing else. IMHO, western Europeans started to relate them as a part of western culture after early 18th century but they were always belonged to the east, not west.

If we look at today, modern Greeks doesn't have western culture either. I don't see them any different than us, Turks or any other Balkan state. So, to me, neither Balkans nor Anatolia was never a part of western culture throughout history.

This is so true, mate. Being far Greece for some years, I have realised that culture-wise, behaviour-wise and even appearance-wise Greeks are much more similar to the Turks, the Balkans, and to the Arabs of the more northern countries like Jordan, Lebanon etc.

There is nothing in common with the Western and Northern Europeans and it's more than obvious.

So Voltron, as the author of the article says, none of your problems will be fixed unless you quit living in the fantasies created by the western European romantiques of 19th century. I have no idea how come you do that because you live like this for more than a century but it`s the only way for your own salvation as the author says.

Like i said a year ago, you Greeks have pretty much no difference from other Balkan states and most of your culture comes from the Ottoman era Anatolia, the rest from eastern Roman times of Anatolia. That makes us your closest relatives in terms of culture, the Turks. The religion is the main difference between us, the rest is similar if not same. Albanians and Macedonians were living in Ottoman era Greece, so the other part of your culture comes from them. This is pretty much a summary of today`s Greek culture.

It`s same for other Balkan states too. I can say same for all other Balkan states, especially the orthodox ones. They never had western culture either and they will never have. This actually includes Croatians, Slovenians, Hungarians too. Despite their catholism, they mostly have eastern culture. And like i said above, they didn't became oriental during Ottoman era, because they were already oriental since the beginning.

[makedonche]

modern Greeks were described as indolent sloths, cheats and liars, masters of corruption,

.........I have forgotten how long I've been saying this for! Where's Phoenix to remind me?

[Risto the Great]

Greeks must reject the imagined culture imposed upon them by European romantics and several of their own intellectuals, and embrace their real cultural identity. When they do so they must then redesign their political institutions in order to reflect their true social and cultural values.

This is particularly important for Greece and the rest of the Balkans as a consequence.

[Phoenix]

.........I have forgotten how long I've been saying this for! Where's Phoenix to remind me?

I hear you brother...it's merely that little bit sweeter when it comes from an outsider or better still, one of their own...as apt as the description of sloths, cheats, liars and masters of corruption are in describing our little bouzouki playing and plate smashing friends is, no description fully describes this rabble if the notion of delusion isnt considered.

[George S.]

i don't know if you guys know but papandreou has just resigned.

[makedonche]

I hear you brother...it's merely that little bit sweeter when it comes from an outsider or better still, one of their own...as apt as the description of sloths, cheats, liars and masters of corruption are in describing our little bouzouki playing and plate smashing friends is, no description fully describes this rabble if the notion of delusion isnt considered.

Phoenix
....hahahah!!!!!!! Very true, that notion of delusion is clearly evident and closely linked to their continual state of denial! Shit I think I just created a new state in the southern balkans, the state of "Denial"

[makedonche]

i don't know if you guys know but papandreou has just resigned.

George S
yeah...that's old news, Phoenix gave him his marching orders a while ago, took a bit longer coz he had to getthe instructions translated!

[George S.]

who is going to replace him?

[makedonche]

who is going to replace him?

George
Does it really matter? My guess is Samaras the opposition leader!

[lavce pelagonski]

it is Samaraus(sarma)

[Voltron]

So Voltron, as the author of the article says, none of your problems will be fixed unless you quit living in the fantasies created by the western European romantiques of 19th century. I have no idea how come you do that because you live like this for more than a century but it`s the only way for your own salvation as the author says.

Going back to the author. Is ancient Greece to be blamed for Italy? Spain? or perhaps Ireland ? Is ancient Greece to be blamed for the US as well ? This tool intentionaly overlooks the fact that the whole western world is going through a tough time. Its unfortunate that this guy takes a cheap shot at Greece a country that supposedly he has ethnic ties to. I dont know what he was trying to prove, maybe he was trying to distant himself from his heritage. Nowadays, you have these types of people that want to conform to the new world order where all ethnicities should forget where they come from and just fuse together to a new globalist multi-culturalist world. With one bank, one currency and God knows what else. He even says it in his last statement.

Like i said a year ago, you Greeks have pretty much no difference from other Balkan states and most of your culture comes from the Ottoman era Anatolia, the rest from eastern Roman times of Anatolia. That makes us your closest relatives in terms of culture, the Turks. The religion is the main difference between us, the rest is similar if not same. Albanians and Macedonians were living in Ottoman era Greece, so the other part of your culture comes from them. This is pretty much a summary of today`s Greek culture.

Never denied we have nothing in common with the Balkans. Neither did I deny we have major differences from Turks. In fact I was the one telling you this.

It`s same for other Balkan states too. I can say same for all other Balkan states, especially the orthodox ones. They never had western culture either and they will never have. This actually includes Croatians, Slovenians, Hungarians too. Despite their catholism, they mostly have eastern culture. And like i said above, they didn't became oriental during Ottoman era, because they were already oriental since the beginning.

You're getting way ahead of yourself on this. Greeks oriental ? No, I dont think so. If the balkans are backward it is a direct result of the Ottomanization of the balkans during that rule. Everybody knows this.
They even named a piece of furniture after the Ottomans where you put your feet up on. Quite fitting.

[George S.]

it does matter as to who gets to veto macedonia or unveto it.Maybethey may not be interested in the name discussions as there are more pressing moments.

[George S.]

i think that samaras is completely washed up & he'll probably dissapear off the radar.