Nikola Gruevski

[Pelister]

There is no doubt about it. Gruevski is meddling with our identity.

[Pelister]

Your right Tom.

He can't hide the fact that he is interferring with our historical and political identity.

He can convince people that he is not for a name change, he can convince them that the 'negotiations' are out of his hands, but he made his intentions very clear recently. I think that Gruevski has been lying to the Macedonian people - I think he is a reckless individual and a traitor to all Macedonians. He may well be the best pick out of a very bad bunch but that isn't saying much.

We needs a grass roots movement to stop the negotiations, and the Macedonian people should be made aware that we have not in fact been blocked at the United Nations.

[fyrOM]

What with this relativism? If something does not measure up, it simply does not measure up - regardless of place, time or circumstance.

Its just like a lot of things there…

He may well be the best pick out of a very bad bunch but that isn't saying much.

that’s all I meant.

[Volk]

There is no doubt about it. Gruevski is meddling with our identity.

Greuvski is held hostage not by greece but by the majority of Macedonians that want entry to NATO and EU. Terminating talks would mean an end to this 'dream' to the majority of people which would probably mean the fall of this government and the rise of one which would accept ANY terms

Dont be so short sighted, the problem is the people and their slave, defeatist mentality.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Greuvski is held hostage not by greece but by the majority of Macedonians that want entry to NATO and EU.

Lol, that's a new one.

How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?

Terminating talks would mean an end to this 'dream' to the majority of people which would probably mean the fall of this government and the rise of one which would accept ANY terms

I would rather see this government fall than see another capitulation. The Macedonian identity is more important than Gruevski's career - which he should be putting out on a limb to defend the honour and integrity of his nation.

Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.

Dont be so short sighted, the problem is the people and their slave, defeatist mentality.

That is certainly a problem. How about the cowardice of our spineless leaders, do you think it would make a difference if Gruevski actually grew a pair?

[Vangelovski]

Lol, that's a new one.

How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?

I would rather see this government fall than see another capitulation. The Macedonian identity is more important than Gruevski's career - which he should be putting out on a limb to defend the honour and integrity of his nation.

Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.

That is certainly a problem. How about the cowardice of our spineless leaders, do you think it would make a difference if Gruevski actually grew a pair?

The only thing that I would add is that Gruevski should be addressing the slave mentality rather than allowing himself to be held hostage by it. However, he can't do that until he realises that he himself suffers from a slave mindset and undertakes his own personal moral revolution to free himself from that mindset.

[Volk]

Lol, that's a new one.

How about finally accepting the fact that this guy is negotiating our identity with Greece?

I would rather see this government fall than see another capitulation. The Macedonian identity is more important than Gruevski's career - which he should be putting out on a limb to defend the honour and integrity of his nation.

Instead, he walks around international forums with 'FYR Macedonia' stickers on his shirt or jacket. How utterly disgraceful and pitiful.

That is certainly a problem. How about the cowardice of our spineless leaders, do you think it would make a difference if Gruevski actually grew a pair?

SOM, yes Macedonia is in the 'negotiations' and any self respecting person would be against this. However you chose to ignore my point for the real reason we are still in these talks.

If a government that has refused to change the name is replaced with one that has openly announced it would do so "bend backward to please greece" (not sure what kind of sick sexual position they are thinking of)
guess what would happen?? a name change. Its up to the people.

Walking around with a FYR Macedonia tag makes me as sick as anyone and I cannot understand the mentality behind that.

Unfortunately it seems Gruevksi has the 'biggest pair' from all of our previous politicians, most of which completely robbed the country and did not see fit to defend its name, flag, constitution and territory. Thats the sad truth.

Gruevski should be addressing the slave mentality

Completely agree with you and I believe the government has taken some steps in this regard. The biggest being the acknowledgment of our ancient history. There is propaganda in Macedonia to raise national pride, which is an important step in addressing the slave mentality.

[Vangelovski]

Volk, Gruevski needs to address his own slave mentality before he can do anything further. How are the blind going to lead the blind?

Those statues have no substance other than a pathetic attempt to convince the people of DPMNE's "patriotic" credentials. Further, Gruevski is not better than previous PM's. He has not seen it fit to defend Macedonia's sovereignty or the rights of Macedonians either. In fact, he has only legitimised the Interim Accord even more than any previous Macedonian politician by asking the ICJ to ENFORCE it.

I previously stated that the only positive policy that Gruevski has implemented, that I can think of, the 10% flat tax rate and asked if you can provide me with any other concrete examples - I'm still waiting.

[Risto the Great]

Unfortunately it seems Gruevksi has the 'biggest pair' from all of our previous politicians, most of which completely robbed the country and did not see fit to defend its name, flag, constitution and territory. Thats the sad truth.

The "pair" are still below standard issue.
Gruevski has not defended the name, flag and constitution in any meaningful way.

[Volk]

Volk, Gruevski needs to address his own slave mentality before he can do anything further.

Those statues have no substance other than a pathetic attempt to convince the people of DPMNE's "patriotic" credentials. Further, Gruevski is not better than previous PM's. He has not seen it fit to defend Macedonia's sovereignty or the rights of Macedonians either. In fact, he has only legitimised the Interim Accord even more than any previous Macedonian politician by asking the ICJ to ENFORCE it.

I previously stated that the only positive policy that Gruevski has implemented, that I can think of, the 10% flat tax rate and asked if you can provide me with any other concrete examples - I'm still waiting.

If the acknowledgment and celebration of our history (for the first time) has 'no substance' in your eyes then truly I feel sorry for you.

If he is no better than previous PMs perhaps you are not acquainted with the PMs of the past:

Branko Crvenkovski - Robbed the country, runs the mafia and is backed by greece. Openly supports a name change.

Ljubco Georgievski - Bulgar version of Crvenkovski, open calls Macedonians Bulgarians, robbed the country and orchestrated 2001 to try to join Macedonia with his mother bulgaria.

Vlado Buckovski - puppet of Crvenkovski, masterminded the territorial divide of Macedonia by ethnic lines and handed over Struga to the albanians which nearly got him killed by the people.


The interim accord cannot be enforced by ICJ and you are well aware of this, blatant example of a misleading statement on your behalf.

Winning the ICJ case does not provide Macedonia with an avenue to admittance into NATO and EU as FYROM, it only proves that greece broke the accord, which opens all sort of opportunities for Macedonia like reinstating the original flag and negating FYROM in general.

[Vangelovski]

Volk,

Provide examples of positive policies that Gruevski has implemented if you have any.

Statues of national heroes are only of value if the ideals they struggled for are taught and practised alongside them - in Gruevski's case they are cheap political point scoring. Putting up a statue of Delcev and then negotiating the name and accpeting the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement shows that there is no substance in those statues and that it is a cheap political trick for DPMNE footsoldiers like yourself.

Your understanding of the ICJ process and what Macedonia is asking for (read Macedonia's application to institue proceedings http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index....&code=aci&p3=0) is frankly wrong. This has been explained to you, with the relevant sections quoted, time and again. Yet you either fail to understand it or refuse to believe that your beloved Gruevski could do something of the sort. This is the sort of illogical obsessive defence of Gruevski that betrays your own slave mentality.

In particular, you may want to read Section IV, Paragraph 23 (ii) of Macedonia's application to the ICJ:

The applicant requests the court:

to order that the Respondent immediately take all necessary steps to comply with its obligations under Article 11, paragraph 1, of the Interim Accord, and to cease and desist from objecting in any way, whether directly or indirectly, to the Applicant’s membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and/or of any other “ international, multilateral and regional organizations and institutions ” of which the Respondent is a member, in circumstances where the Applicant is to be referred to in such organizations or institutions by the designation provided for in paragraph 2 of United Nations Security Council resolution 817 (1993).

Gruevski is clearly asking the ICJ to ENFORCE the Interim Accord by asking the Court to make Greece COMPLY with it. That is what ENFORCEMENT by a Court is - making the parties to an agreement COMPLY with the terms of that agreement.

[Phoenix]

Volk, I think it's far too early to judge the honesty of Gruevski, somehow that all manage to accumulate great wealth that is only exposed after they leave office...what works in gruevski's favour is that his opposition has already been exposed and gruevski is looked at as the lesser evil, meanwhile he has more time in office to set himself up for the future...

[Volk]

Tom,
Providing me with a link to a 176 page document proves absolutely nothing. And my understanding of the power the ICJ has is very simple: They have no power to implement any ruling, thus they cannot ENFORCE the interim accord. Then one needs to ask the question, why do it? Ask yourself that question because you are the one not understanding this.

Phoenix, I agree with you.

[Vangelovski]

Tom,
Providing me with a link to a 176 page document proves absolutely nothing. And my understanding of the power the ICJ has is very simple: They have no power to implement any ruling, thus they cannot ENFORCE the interim accord. Then one needs to ask the question, why do it? Ask yourself that question because you are the one not understanding this.

Phoenix, I agree with you.

I added in the relevant paragraphs (again) just so you don't need to trawl through the document, which you obviously have not done, yet think you are fit to comment on it. On the point that they have no power to implement their decisions, this is correct. However, you would have to be deluding yourself if you thought for a minute that Gruevski would not join NATO under FYROM (seeing as he was going to do it under "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)". Howver, the point of discussion is not the power of the ICJ, but Gruevski's treasonous actions. By even taking this to the ICJ and asking them to ENFORCE it, he is LEGITIMISING the Interim Accord instead of declaring it NULL AND VOID.

[makedonche]

Makes perfect sense Vangelovski .....not a lot of room for misinterpretation there!