Nikola Gruevski

[Soldier of Macedon]

In my view, the rank and file of DPMNE need to reclaim their party or organise an alternative.

In the meantime, are they traitors by default?

[Vangelovski]

In the meantime, are they traitors by default?

I wouldn't 'default' anything, but if they clearly understand the position that their party has taken (granted many are ignorant or just confused) and are actively or passively condoning it, then yes. Members of a political party are by definition politically active and, therefore, responsible for the consequences that their political support (and monetary support) leads to. If I stayed on at UMD, how could you possibly take me seriously?

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

SoM since you know more about Gruevski, what are the chances of him changing the name?

We need a new Pro-Macedonian party in Macedonia just like the Tea Party in America. If you think about it, both VMRO and SDSM are screwing us over little by little. VMRO ain't the same organization as the old one. So we need to stop thinking that VMRO is our only hope just because it's called "VMRO".

We need educated Macedonians that love their country and identity and not these criminals that have been screwing us over with the flag and the name negotiations.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I wouldn't 'default' anything, but if they clearly understand the position that their party has taken (granted many are ignorant or just confused) and are actively or passively condoning it, then yes. Members of a political party are by definition politically active and, therefore, responsible for the consequences that their political support (and monetary support) leads to.

So, ignorant, confused or otherwise, they are all traitors by default, according to the definition above which makes all members responsible for the consequences that their political support (and monetary support) leads to. Admittedly, that is a little too black and white. There are numerous people that work for Greek businesses in Bitola and Prilep. Some of the Greek owners are anti-Macedonian scum, and they fund organisations in Greece that actively work against Macedonia and the Macedonians. Are the Macedonians that work for these businesses also traitors? How about Macedonians that shop at the Vero food store chain? Probably not the best analogies, but I think you can understand where I am coming from.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM since you know more about Gruevski...........

What are you implying? Why would I know more about him than anybody else?

[George S.]

what makes people think that the politicians will do what the people want them to do.We have a classic example of the flag issue where they gave in.The people may want the negotiations on the name to stop,but the politicians are'nt stopping.The interpretation is they are being pushed to negotiate so when it turns to shove they will change the name.Greece is playing the waiting game,sooner or later macedonia is going to cave in.I like Som's analysis that the politicians are traitor's by default.When all is said & done we hope to be proved wrong & they stand their ground & not give in.

[Rogi]

There is no 'political will' in Macedonia right now for terminating the negotiations over Macedonia's name, all because, it is claimed, it would allegedly disrupt Macedonia's international reputation, standing, support and international relations.

When Macedonia capitulates further and joins the European Union and/or NATO under the pretense that it must come to an agreement with Greece, as a member (which is what they are negotiating for at the moment), there will be absolutely no political will in Macedonia at all to protect Macedonia's name because it will be then argued that at that point Macedonia will have even more to lose.

The only real option for Macedonia is to end the negotiations, and send the required notifications to the United Nations of Macedonia's intention to from then onward be referred to as Macedonia. If need be, force the United Nations to break its' own Charter - where the absurdity of the situation will become far too evident for it to continue.

It is time to let the chips fall where they may in a stand to protect our name and identity, rather than allow the Macedonian name and the Macedonian identity suffer this death by a thousand cuts.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

What are you implying? Why would I know more about him than anybody else?

I don't really follow the news as much as you do, plus you know more info about him and politics. Its just hard to trust these politicians because they can say "we don't support changing the name" but when they get in power they will change it like they did with the flag.

So what are the chances of him changing the name? and how much can we trust him?

[Rogi]

75-80%. 0%.

[Volk]

Rogi, I would like to hear what are the reasons why Gruevski has not changed the name already if you are so sure he cannot be trusted...?

[Soldier of Macedon]

So what are the chances of him changing the name? and how much can we trust him?

The chances of the first are increasing by the day, and the chances of the second are decreasing by the same measure. The fact is, after years in power, he has not made any definitive actions with regard to the name 'dispute'. During the Bucharest summit he almost promised the Macedonian people that enough was enough and we were pulling out of the negotiations. I lost a lot of respect for Gruevski when he back-flipped on that issue.

The question must be asked of him: Do koga vaka so opashkata megju nodze?? He puts up statues of our heroes from the past, excellent, but he demonstrates none of their qualities such as valour, honour, integrity and self-respect.

[Volk]

The chances of the first are increasing by the day, and the chances of the second are decreasing by the same measure. The fact is, after years in power, he has not made any definitive actions with regard to the name 'dispute'. During the Bucharest summit he almost promised the Macedonian people that enough was enough and we were pulling out of the negotiations. I lost a lot of respect for Gruevski when he back-flipped on that issue.

The question must be asked of him: Do koga vaka so opashkata megju nodze?? He puts up statues of our heroes from the past, excellent, but he demonstrates none of their qualities such as valour, honour, integrity and self-respect.

Would it be political suicide in Macedonia to withdraw from these 'talks'? By doing so your pretty much righting off the wishes of 80% of the people (eu and nato membership).

It seems to be a case of your damned if you do and your damned if you dont.

To me the current crisis in greece seemed to be a perfect moment for quitting the suicidal talks

[Rogi]

He had not yet reconciled with the fact that he will be remembered among the worst traitors in Macedonian history, and lose power at the same time.

I think by now all Macedonians should be wise enough not to trust any politician, Macedonian or otherwise. It is far better to err on the side of caution, and principles, in matters of such national importance.

[George S.]

dch youre right it's a matter of trust.Macedonia's record isn't too good & they are playing right in their hot hands.They are too stupid to even realise.Why do they have to be so nice & polite just give them the 2 fingered salute is it too much to ask.

[Risto the Great]

Rogi, I would like to hear what are the reasons why Gruevski has not changed the name already if you are so sure he cannot be trusted...?

Because the Greeks were not satisfied with his treacherous offer. They wanted more blood out of Macedonia and he knew it would be political suicide.