South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[Rogi]

Prolet, there are already more than 15,000 Macedonian citizens in Australia (holding dual citizenship). It is not 100 people.

Why wouldn't SDSM want the Diaspora voting? Because the majority would support VMRO-DPMNE or a community leader, rather than SDSM, even though SDSM has quite a few supporters.

[makedonche]

makedonche, I do not mean any disrespect, but I think you are crossing some unnecessary and unbecoming lines here with threats of physical violence.

I understand this has turned into a discussion or debate on the most sensitive topic in our community, but I would urge that cool heads prevail nonetheless.

Rogi,
Thanks for your comments, if you recall some time ago MP_MK made reference to physical and mental abilities, at that point I bit my tongue in order not to inflame the situation. If you read the posts again you will see the instigator of threats and innuendo as a clever mask to not answering questions or taking responsibility for talking rubbish. Having said that I will keep a cool head as per your request.

[sf.]

sf. when I said 'here', I didn't mean on the forum, I meant here in Australia. In any case, I didn't have you in mind at all either way.

I didn't take it that way, and I did understand you were talking about Australia in general. I declared my personal stance to prevent people from jumping to conclusions after I made my statement.

[Prolet]

Lets calm down people, no need to be calling eachother names and making threats, we dont need tensions to rise we are better then that. Lets not point fingers at eachother whats done is done we cant change that, but we must look for the future and make sure that we dont make the same mistakes again.

SF, So who do people vote for? Will there be a list of independent candidates from Australia,North America and Europe so the one with the most votes goes to Stari Kraj and becomes a pratenik in Parliament?

[makedonche]

Totally agree.
Makedonche, please calm down.

RTG
Nobody is entitled to speak about myself or my family in that manner. You either hold him accountable or I certainly will.

[makedonche]

Don how about you just try knock me out or put me in an ambulance in front of everyone on Wednesday? Show the whole community the true face of Don?

Keep playing, let's see how far you can push it.

So you need an audience do you? Come on down I'll make sure we have enough people here for you.

[Risto the Great]

Firstly, let me declare that I support neither party.

Supporting SDSM is just as dumb as supporting VMRO simply on the basis of their name and the perceived historical links.

Yeah, I am a little troubled by this. I just don't see its relevance over here and cannot see how the voice of the Diaspora will be best served by merely being another pawn for established parties in Macedonia.

[MP_MK]

Makedonche and MP_MK, this can actually be a healthy debate if tackled usefully.
Makedonche can ease up and MP_MK can equip himself with all the facts before blindly defending something he is not acutely aware of.

MP_MK, I am not talking about being privy to internal policies, I am talking about actions. You said you don't know why the Vladika would be going for the community centre. Do you think anything "internal" would reveal that it was going to sold with proceeds going to "white dove purchases" for use in the church next door? His actions have been opportunistic and the communities have split because of it. He has too much dirt on his superiors in the Republic, and he will continue with his belligerence. Plain and simple.

Under the cirumstances, I believe I have handled myself quite well with Don. I have no issue with Don getting out of hand or getting heavy, it can only be harful to him.

RTG: This wasn't a debate or discussion in regards to the Vladika.

To say that I am "blindly defending something he is not acutely aware" is not fair. My position and comments on the split here today and on the matter is based on the fall out within the community, not the attack from the Vladika. You assume that all members within my community support the Vladika and what took place. This is incorrect.

[MP_MK]

So you need an audience do you? Come on down I'll make sure we have enough people here for you.

Don,

Can i get one thing clear first?

You are inviting me to your home or office or church in order to try to assult me and put me in an ambulance? Is this correct?

[Risto the Great]

RTG
Nobody is entitled to speak about myself or my family in that manner. You either hold him accountable or I certainly will.

Talk of family matters (whether substantiated or not) are unacceptable and will attract this kind of emotion. MP_MK, that was highly inappropriate.

At the very least, please take it private in due course.

[Stojacanec]

Are you seriously listening to yourself?

A splinter of the Findon community would be individuals that share the same history as the majority of that community. i.e: are 2nd, 3rd and 4th generational Macedonians which mostly stem from areas outside of ROM. If these people decided to leave for whatever reason, they would be classified as a "splinter goup".

The Woodville community was formed bacause the leadership at Findon gave our priest an ultimatum: Stay loyal to the MOC and leave the Findon church or abandon the MOC and stay.

Members of your community and individuals here on this forum, now say that it was our priest that caused the split, but we all know that this is not the case ...an ultimatum was not a decision on his part. SO the members that formed the new community remained loyal to the MOC: MACEDONIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH. They are all 1st generational Macedonians to Australia and hence share the same mentality and heritage, therefore unitied and formed the new community and church when faced with the ultimatum.

I wouldn't call this a splinter group. I would call it a short stay at the Findon church, realizing we don't sahre the same loyalty and outlook and moving on.

So in your view- This Easter, I should print out two or three hundred flyers, stating that we are no longer a Maceodnian community in Adelaide and hand these flyers out to all the members of our community and then follow this through with a mail out to the members that don't attend church, just to make sure everyone is aware that we don't belong to a community because Macedonche says so?


Poor form.

I totally disagree with this.

A breakaway group from the findon site happened well before any priest was given an altimaitum. It was not even religious based.

When the VMRO group broke away, we still retained the same priest hence it had nothing to do with that.

At the end of the day people at the executive level exchanged words and then people ended up forming another group.

Risto is on the money when he refers to certain new arrivals having radical plans and ideas.

MP_MK you say they had a short stay at Findon, my foot !! When I attended one of their first dances (VMRO) as I looked across the room maybe 5% of the people had a short stay in Findon.

Mind you I don't play politics between two Macedonian groups. I would go to both functions. Obviously I have a natural tendancy to the findon site.

It is NOT a newly formed group with differnent history etc. It may have been driven by new immigrants to Aust but the general makup of the breakaway group is old stock from the MOC of Findon.

The people that left have spent a good part of their earlier lives well entrenched in the MOC in Findon.

They are a breakaway group end of story.

The religeous debacle came later.

[sf.]

SF, So who do people vote for? Will there be a list of independent candidates from Australia,North America and Europe so the one with the most votes goes to Stari Kraj and becomes a pratenik in Parliament?

I don't know Prolet. It's a complicated situation with lots of unforeseen outcomes. At this point, I don't know whether it would do more good or bad.

[Prolet]

Prolet, there are already more than 15,000 Macedonian citizens in Australia (holding dual citizenship). It is not 100 people.

Why wouldn't SDSM want the Diaspora voting? Because the majority would support VMRO-DPMNE or a community leader, rather than SDSM, even though SDSM has quite a few supporters.

Rogi, Spolaj Ti for the update

What about the Macedonians from Egej,Pirin and Mala Prespa?? How do they entitle for citizenship? I just hope they get things right.

[makedonche]

Don,

Can i get one thing clear first?

You are inviting me to your home or office or church in order to try to assult me and put me in an ambulance? Is this correct?

You still don't get it do you? It's obvious you are clueless even when it comes to the most simple things! You haven't worked out what is dividing our people, as long as you conrtibute to the cause you will not be able to contribute to the solution - what you are doing here contributes to the cause of the problem. You know where I am!

[MP_MK]

Talk of family matters (whether substantiated or not) are unacceptable and will attract this kind of emotion. MP_MK, that was highly inappropriate.

At the very least, please take it private in due course.

The emotion started well before his family member was mentioned, it was also bipolar in characteristic.

There was no threat on my part to Don or any of his family members. I simply stated that I would not respect an individual that does not have the respect of his own family and I stand by this statement.