South Australian Premier Mike Rann, an enemy to Macedonians

[Pavel]

volk everyone just saw what you did there. are you going to answer the question?

[Bill77]

Bill are you deliberately taking me out of context ili ti fali nesto?

When every thread turns into infighting it becomes embarrassing, whose agenda does it serve?

Mene nishto ne mi fali ne beri gajle. ama tie shto se krstat na Meto, sigurno mu fali neshto.

You asked why this thread has turned into infighting and its embarrassing, i explained why its hapened and you can guess for your self who's soldier started it.

So answer my questions on the previous posts.

[Prolet]

Volk, You are very realistic mate i feel the same way, i want all our organizations to be strong. I want a strong UMD and i want a strong AMHRC what is wrong with having that?? I think the key thing here is responsibility, everyone needs to be responsible with their work and be responsible to their people...

Bill, So you are upset because Buktop who comes from USA asked a question why the AMHRC was not aware earlier about the Mike Rann comments and that makes him the enemy?? My god, if he is a UMD soldier as he is accused to be and asks a question then what should he say when the UMD has been literally slaughtered in this forum is that fair in your view?? Buktop is a fellow Macedonian just like you and me, if somebody had a go at you i would defend you aswell, why cant we have a strong UMD and a Strong AMHRC that will work together and do whats best for our diaspora, is that a question thats too hard to ask?? Why cant we be together and defend our groups instead of bitterly dividing ourselves into UMD vs AMHRC its very disappointing and you know it.

Whats done is done, mistakes have been made nobody is perfect we know this, why cant we move on?? Meto is in Australia, he's done his very best to show to the people what the UMD is all about. Its not easy we are not the biggest Diaspora in the world, we are not the richest diaspora in the world but why throw away the very little that we have left? Why are we turning on eachother when the Greeks are doing their very best to destroy us?? It really is a shame and its not what we are about, we deserve alot better then this.

[Prolet]

volk, who took this thread on a wrong turn? wasn't it buktop??

And what exactly did Buktop do Pavel??

He never accused AMHRC of anything he asked them a question, do you think the people in USA know much about what goes on in South Australia?? The majority of us didnt know as this happened in late November so if somebody is to blame we are all to blame thats that, we deal with it and move on.

All this finger pointing,bitter fighting,accusations are not getting us anywhere and this has to stop right away.

[maslinka]

So the way things have played out are:

(1) UMD gets the first mention in the press in the advertiser - tick box for profile.

(2) AMHRC begins the road to legal action by announcing open letter - tick box for action

Soon:

(3) UMD will forget all about the issue especially when Meto has finished his tour.

(4) AMHRC will continue with legal proceedings

So, lets face it, there is criticism to be had. Just look at the actions of the two organisations. Tell me, if you were Australian, where would you put your money?

Now I would retract my criticism if the UMD coughed up some cash for the proceedings.

If we are trying to be objective about this, the issue at hand is that Rann needs to be clattered for his actions, and UMD bought into the issue, so lets see some backbone UMD - "united we can" . Invest some of the cash you extracted from your Australiana tour back into something that will benefit the community directly and that isn't self serving tokenism.

Prolet, let's exercise that obkectivity of yours. What about the quote above?

[Pavel]

wrong. he didnt just ask the question. buktop was trying to say that they should be mind readers. no one could know what rann said unless they were at that greek festival in adelaide. so unless someone tells you, how could you know?? magic?

volk everyone here just saw how you couldnt answer the question about buktop honestly. this is a waste of time.

[Bill77]

Volk, You are very realistic mate i feel the same way, i want all our organizations to be strong. I want a strong UMD and i want a strong AMHRC what is wrong with having that?? I think the key thing here is responsibility, everyone needs to be responsible with their work and be responsible to their people...

Bill, So you are upset because Buktop who comes from USA asked a question why the AMHRC was not aware earlier about the Mike Rann comments and that makes him the enemy?? My god, if he is a UMD soldier as he is accused to be and asks a question then what should he say when the UMD has been literally slaughtered in this forum is that fair in your view?? Buktop is a fellow Macedonian just like you and me, if somebody had a go at you i would defend you aswell, why cant we have a strong UMD and a Strong AMHRC that will work together and do whats best for our diaspora, is that a question thats too hard to ask?? Why cant we be together and defend our groups instead of bitterly dividing ourselves into UMD vs AMHRC its very disappointing and you know it.

Whats done is done, mistakes have been made nobody is perfect we know this, why cant we move on?? Meto is in Australia, he's done his very best to show to the people what the UMD is all about. Its not easy we are not the biggest Diaspora in the world, we are not the richest diaspora in the world but why throw away the very little that we have left? Why are we turning on eachother when the Greeks are doing their very best to destroy us?? It really is a shame and its not what we are about, we deserve alot better then this.

Prolet.... rasvestise.

There is so much wrong with your post. ama momentalno umo ti leta i so koj kje se raspravam.

[Grotius]

Hey 'Kevin Rudd',

Stop purporting to engage in middle power diplomacy. You are the biggest shit stirrer here. I simply do not believe that you are as ignorant as you appear. Or am I wrong?? Either way, you sound like an apologist right now - I simply cannot take you seriously.

Volk, I actually believe you are genuine, unlike 'Kevin Rudd'. I appreciate your points against descending into divisive debate amongst ourselves, moreover, I do not even think this has anything to do with the UMD or AMHRC, its about the objectiveness of the observers here. I notice you have gone into defence of UMD, have you equally employed your righteous postulates in defence of the AMHRC?

[Soldier of Macedon]

No SOM, whats embarrassing is the continual infighting, that's what this forum has degraded to... People like YOU have created some artificial division between UMD supporters and god knows what else..

This forum hasn't degraded at all, quite the contrary, threads on all sorts of issues and topics are flourishing. I will consider your comment as a cheap shot by someone who has certainly cheapened his views as of late. I created no division, you liar, there's another reason for you to be embarrassed. I am a late comer to this 'anti-UMD' sentiment that was brewing long before my involvement. On account of your selfishness and your issues against some individuals, you have backed the 'enemy of your enemy', so to speak, regardless of surrounding circumstances. Cheap it may be, but that is your choice.

And rest assured, the animosity the UMD faces is not artificial, it is very real and completely valid. People like you (I wouldn't have thought so previously, but hey, there you go) seem to be quite happy with whatever explanation Meto throws in your ear, or perhaps, you share his sentiment, perhaps, you may not be that staunch Macedonian I thought I knew.

I dont attack people maliciously like a lot of people here on the forum. If that's what it means for you to be a "staunch" Macedonian you can have it...

A staunch Macedonian is somebody who stays strong to their beliefs which are congruent with the Macedonian Cause. Finding a 'democratic' prefix acceptable is not congruent with the Macedonian Cause, although it is with UMD's cause. Seriously mate, forget about the 'staunch' comment, who am I to think more of you.

Now I am a solider of Meto, because I dont agree with your views on them... gospode zacuvaj....

Please, enough with your self-pity. This has nothing to do with my individual views, you are using that as an excuse to defend whatever point you are trying to make, which is wrong.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hey 'Kevin Rudd',

Stop purporting to engage in middle power diplomacy. You are the biggest shit stirrer here. I simply do not believe that you are as ignorant as you appear. Or am I wrong?? Either way, you sound like an apologist right now - I simply cannot take you seriously.

Volk, I actually believe you are genuine, unlike 'Kevin Rudd'. I appreciate your points against descending into divisive debate amongst ourselves, moreover, I do not even think this has anything to do with the UMD or AMHRC, its about the objectiveness of the observers here. I notice you have gone into defence of UMD, have you equally employed your righteous postulates in defence of the AMHRC?

To be honest Grotius, I knew a different Volk once upon a time, now the only one that shows himself is the UMD representative.

[Volk]

I notice you have gone into defence of UMD, have you equally employed your righteous postulates in defence of the AMHRC?

Defend what? I support both groups.

Just because I do not agree with some peoples views about UMD I am a "UMD representative"... Common, regardless of the fact if people do not agree with them 100%, I doubt you will find anyone here that does...
Does this mean our cause is better off without them? Does it mean we should not have a voice in Washington?

Does every thread deserve to be about them? The greeks are united to attack us on every front and the squandering continues...

SOM, I will only say this, I thought you had better judgment... Instead you are initiating ill calculated attacks... You have not addressed any of my points...

So sreka neka tie, ne ti baram bilokakvo odobruvane. Samo da razberis deka ti si sega del od nekoja ilogicna, namestena podelba sto edinstven cel e da ne oslabi vo vreme koga treba da se obiduvame.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Which points Volk? Please list them all in point form and I will address each of them with my next post. Will you agree to do the same with my points after I have?

Ne, jas sum del od sobrani lugje sho mu se zdosade so lagite, i sho ne mozhat da mu kjutat poikje. Od site ova ne go odchekuvav od tebe, znam deka vo mislite nogu slichen si so mene, ama za ova tema ne sakash da napushtash i ne sakash da priznavash, bez vrska ako si kriv ili ne. Toa e tvoja greshka, ne moja. Do chera i jas gi podrzhuvav UMD, ama ne mozham samio da se lazham so toa sho go znam sega.

[Prolet]

Grotius, Who gives you the right to judge people??

Im a shit stirrer exactly how is that?? Because i ask for the little that we have left not to be destroyed?? An apologist?? I can only apologize that as a member of the community in Australia we have been left in a stand still for years now, you wont see me pointing fingers at anyone unlike what you are doing. If i wanted to shit stir, if i wanted to destroy something its not very hard when tensions are already rising.

SOM, Ti ako ne se soglasuvas so UMD ne mora da znaci oti treba da gi mrazish,kazhi mi kako e toa negova greshka?? Fakt e oti treba da imame prestanvici vo Washington, Fakt e deka treba da imame prestavnici vo Canberra,Fakt e deka treba da imame prestavnici vo Brisel, bitno e da se napravi struktura za da se znae kako ke se lobira niz svetot a ne vaka Grcite da dobivat grantoj vredni nekolku miljoni dolari a nashite nishto da ne dobijat. Zosto da se samounishtuvame vaka? Eve neka rabotat deckite od UMD, neka ima struktura, neka ima sistem,neka ima uslovi, neka ima ofisi pa posle toa za menvanje ke ima luge i toa po mladi shkolovani koj ke prevzemat. Metodija nema sto godini da bidi precedatel na UMD a nie sme vo kritichen moment i se borime za nashata egzistencija.

Bill, Jas ne se raspravam so tebe, nie samite si se unishtuvanje i se karame i posle se chudime kako drugite si pravat shto sakat so nas. Jas se soglasuvam so tebe oti sekoj pravi greski, ali treba da znajme oti vakvi kavgi da si gi vadime ochite mozhe samo zlo da donese nishto pojke. Ednostavno jas ne sakam da gledam kako samite se samounishtuvame i treba da bidime pozitivni mozi i jas sum zgreshil i jas sum chojek ke zgresham i drugite ke greshime ali nashata kauza, nashata idnina,nashiot jazik i taka natamu ne smee da se izgubi i namesto da se razgovara na toa namesto da se razgovara kako ke ideme ponatamu, kako ke se branime, kako ke go zachuvame toa shto nashite predci go branele nie se karame zoshto ovoj ona rekol zoshto toj vaka kazhal, oti ti gi sakas UMD oti AMHRC dali toa ke ni pomogne za idninata? Nie treba da gledame kako mozhi ovie organizacii da bidat po cvrsti i da gi suportirame za ponatamu tie ke mozhat da si ja vrshat svojata rabota.

[Grotius]

'kevin rudd'

Look it’s ‘Kevin Rudd’,

Able to contort his positions on any topic faster than a UMD speaking tour, able to leap over tall arguments in a single bound …. Sorry Prolet, I couldn’t help myself.

You are shit stirrer because you play the field, you make subtle remarks that are designed to provoke angst – I initially debated whether this was out of ignorance, but I don’t think so, because as soon as somebody responds, you pounce with your messages of virtue.

Your purported ignorance contributes to the destruction of our Community’s unity. You are an apologist when you start espousing the agenda of a particular group, your childish enthralment with the boy wonder is even scary. ‘If’ we have been left in a stand still in Australia, it is because of the fact that people like you, who only ever talk, but do not actually support the Community groups that exist in Australia in any way. Why don’t you support our Community organisations? Have you joined as a member with any of them? Have you donated any money to them? Are you just another tight ass? In any event, the Community has not stood still, maybe you have, maybe you are stuck in a particular period of time (when were your glory days Prolet??), the Community has moved on, the fact is you do not recognise it anymore. And yes you are pointing fingers, you do it all the time you shit stirrer, you are the one that is raising tensions by your frequent immature statements.

Further, who gives you the right to judge people and organisations? This is precisely what you do all the time you obtuse pretender, with your regular sermonizing. How are you going to help our Community in Australia Prolet, as opposed to articulating how you fawn over the boy wonder?

[Bill77]

Bill, Jas ne se raspravam so tebe, nie samite si se unishtuvanje i se karame i posle se chudime kako drugite si pravat shto sakat so nas. Jas se soglasuvam so tebe oti sekoj pravi greski, ali treba da znajme oti vakvi kavgi da si gi vadime ochite mozhe samo zlo da donese nishto pojke. Ednostavno jas ne sakam da gledam kako samite se samounishtuvame i treba da bidime pozitivni mozi i jas sum zgreshil i jas sum chojek ke zgresham i drugite ke greshime ali nashata kauza, nashata idnina,nashiot jazik i taka natamu ne smee da se izgubi i namesto da se razgovara na toa namesto da se razgovara kako ke ideme ponatamu, kako ke se branime, kako ke go zachuvame toa shto nashite predci go branele nie se karame zoshto ovoj ona rekol zoshto toj vaka kazhal, oti ti gi sakas UMD oti AMHRC dali toa ke ni pomogne za idninata? Nie treba da gledame kako mozhi ovie organizacii da bidat po cvrsti i da gi suportirame za ponatamu tie ke mozhat da si ja vrshat svojata rabota.

Aide prolet dosta. ti ne si za veruvajne pojke. ako si ti tolku chojek za prava, ili za mir, trebashe odma da mu recheshe na amerikaneco da si beri pamet. toj pluka po nashata organizaciata i ti go branish. pravoto si e pravo.

i ako priznavash deka si chojek i zgreshuvas, odma priznavaj i ne drapaj madina. isto i za ikonata tvoja sveti metodija na ke priznaj greshkite setne da mu gi oprostime greshkite za da mozime da kinisama. nemoj da ne prajte kako budali ili nekoj ne razbrani. UMD i AMHRC dvete ni se vazni i ke gi krepime. ni eden mema receno do sega za UMD da gi nemat pojke. ama ti natre shto gi grdat imeto na UMD morat da se svestat, da priznavat greshkite, da mislat pred da zboruvat, i da slushat narodo.