United Macedonia Diaspora

[Risto the Great]

He went on to explain himself, not to advocate the action, it is one thing if he said I made a mistake, but we should change the name. He said he made a mistake, has now advocated that we should not change the name, and then explained why he made the mistake, not in an attempt to absolve himself of guilt, but to reach an understanding.

I have no defect, nor am I a subservient slave to authority, from working with him I know his intentions are honorable, mistakes can be made, I can forgive, but I never forget.

He went on to say "if Macedonia had to decide a new name ... he would prefer Democratic to Skopje" etc. because "after all, Macedonia is a Democratic nation" etc.
It is on the second link Buktop. I assume you have seen it. Here it is again:
YouTube - MTO UMD 2

I queried the ideology of the organisation. If we had the ability (I say "we", because I hope you can join me) to step back and say "why the hell is an organisation who purports to represent Macedonians in the Diaspora even entertaining such a mindset"?

As the unofficial mouthpiece of the UMetoD, can you explain why a Macedonian Diaspora organisation needs to come to a conclusion about what name should be chosen IF Macedonia needs to come up with a new name? Perhaps we need an organisation that says "Change the name at your own personal peril to the Macedonian politicians". But that's right, it is the USA brand of patriotism we are talking about again ... far more polished than us peasants Down Under.

Tell me that joke about the moron who walked into the room and accepted the Framework Agreement and said we should use it against the Greeks. Perhaps we could draw parallels with the Hiroshimans using the nuclear bomb against the USA. Makes sense in a way, but why so many dead people?

UMetoD is yet to absolve itself and/or explain the issue in any truthful way whatsoever. I forget many things (unlike you apparently) but since I am continually reminded of the inconsistencies coming from UMetoD, I will probably retain this memory for quite some time.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Just offering suggestions at a more constructive option. Instead of calling UMD and their supporters imbeciles or jokers, why not target the source of your discontent i.e. Gruevski & Co.

Gruevski and co. don't claim to represent the Macedonian Diaspora, the UMD do. Are you having trouble understanding this? Open a thread about Gruevski and co. if you want to talk about policies and criticism in relation to the current Macedonian government, rather than attempting to divert attention away from the UMD by using this new 'argument' of yours that seems to have gained popularity among UMD apologists. It is not Gruevski, but Meto, who is going around claiming to speak on behalf of the Macedonian Diaspora. My specific concerns are addressed to the right people, get that through your head.

..........constantly denigrating other Macedonians.

Your generalisations are obvious and pathetic. I will always voice my concern against ideologically-flawed and treacherous Macedonian individuals and/or groups. Silence on such matters is why so much in our history has gone wrong, snap out of 'bratstvo i jedinstvo' mode, UDBA ne ti e poikje sudba.

As for asking you to write letters, is that too much to ask?

Is that the only response you people can muster, somebody makes a criticism towards the UMD and the latter, rather than providing an honest answer, accuse the critics of not sending letters? Pathetic (and expected).

I most certainly do, and my experience can attest to that.

Yep, together with Meto you're a beacon of 'integrity', lol.

As for your (yet again) pathetic and manipulated interpretation of Meto's statements on the clip, I think Risto the Great summed it up well:

Buktop, he went on to justify his original position. You must have a serious character defect if you cannot accept this.

You and the UMD have a 'beautiful' future.

[Phoenix]

To all of you guys engaging in 'debate' with that American arse kissing UMD apologist Buktop...its time that you have lost forever and time you will never get back...

[Soldier of Macedon]

As a result of these discussions, the integrity of the UMD and all of its apologists has also gone out the window, and I don't see that coming back either. So it's not all loss

[Buktop]

Buktop,

This is your real view - the "reality" of the Interim Accord - your argument that we cannot exercise our freedom now, but have to wait for some 'distant and vague future' that just never comes.

It will come, and we are nearly there.

Your supposed "support" for freedom is nothing but a facade, a one-liner that you throw out before you come back to defending our oppressors and the tools that they use to oppress us.

not at all

You are UMD at heart and your vision of Macedonia is one of a vassel state serving foreign masters.

not at all

You would never wrap yourself in the morally and intellectually corrupt arguments you do if you were using your REAL name, rather you hide behind this FAKE internet personality and try to convince the Macedonian people to accept defeat, to accept the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement as "reality" and to accept the rule of foreign interests.

not at all

For all we know, you are an UDBa style lackey, trying to prop up an ideologically flawed organisation that is working AGAINST the Macedonian cause.

This really made me laugh

[Buktop]

He went on to say "if Macedonia had to decide a new name ... he would prefer Democratic to Skopje" etc. because "after all, Macedonia is a Democratic nation" etc.
It is on the second link Buktop. I assume you have seen it. Here it is again:

Yes I saw it, and you asked him the right question right before the other man cut you off, and as I said, he said he made a mistake, and then explained why he made the mistake.

I queried the ideology of the organisation. If we had the ability (I say "we", because I hope you can join me) to step back and say "why the hell is an organisation who purports to represent Macedonians in the Diaspora even entertaining such a mindset"?

As the unofficial mouthpiece of the UMetoD, can you explain why a Macedonian Diaspora organisation needs to come to a conclusion about what name should be chosen IF Macedonia needs to come up with a new name? Perhaps we need an organisation that says "Change the name at your own personal peril to the Macedonian politicians". But that's right, it is the USA brand of patriotism we are talking about again ... far more polished than us peasants Down Under.

I agree, they should not be making inferences about acceptable name changes. I wouldn't classify this as USA patriotism versus Aussie patriotism, it's politics.

Tell me that joke about the moron who walked into the room and accepted the Framework Agreement and said we should use it against the Greeks. Perhaps we could draw parallels with the Hiroshimans using the nuclear bomb against the USA. Makes sense in a way, but why so many dead people?

It's nothing like the example of Hiroshima. Just think for a minute. What possible reason does the government have to continue abiding by an agreement it has publicly condemned? Why continue the talks when they already know any name change will not pass at referendum? Why would Gruevski and Co maintain a policy of domestic national enrichment emphasizing history, while at the same time maintain negotiations with those who claim we have no history?

UMetoD is yet to absolve itself and/or explain the issue in any truthful way whatsoever. I forget many things (unlike you apparently) but since I am continually reminded of the inconsistencies coming from UMetoD, I will probably retain this memory for quite some time.

And I don't blame you, but I see some good that can come out of UMD and until I lose sight of it I cannot see myself condemning them entirely.

[Buktop]

Gruevski and co. don't claim to represent the Macedonian Diaspora, the UMD do. Are you having trouble understanding this? Open a thread about Gruevski and co. if you want to talk about policies and criticism in relation to the current Macedonian government, rather than attempting to divert attention away from the UMD by using this new 'argument' of yours that seems to have gained popularity among UMD apologists. It is not Gruevski, but Meto, who is going around claiming to speak on behalf of the Macedonian Diaspora. My specific concerns are addressed to the right people, get that through your head.

Gruevski and Co claim to represent Macedonians everywhere.

Your generalisations are obvious and pathetic. I will always voice my concern against ideologically-flawed and treacherous Macedonian individuals and/or groups. Silence on such matters is why so much in our history has gone wrong, snap out of 'bratstvo i jedinstvo' mode, UDBA ne ti e poikje sudba.

Once again, unwarranted insults about me being a Titoist given that I have not mentioned anything here that would justify the comparison. It seems to be a common element among many here who don't like the way I think, if you don't agree with me just call me a Tito lover and immediately everything I say becomes meaningless. It seems to be the comeback of choice for those who don't have anything of substance to add to a discussion.

Is that the only response you people can muster, somebody makes a criticism towards the UMD and the latter, rather than providing an honest answer, accuse the critics of not sending letters? Pathetic (and expected).

I didn't accuse you of anything, I was offering a suggestion on how to better use your time.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Gruevski and Co claim to represent Macedonians everywhere.

Don't get all philosophical, Meto and the UMD are the one's who specifically go around claiming to speak on behalf of the Macedonian Diaspora. The Macedonian Diaspora. I am in the Macedonian Diaspora. Get it? Or do you require guidance again?

Once again, unwarranted insults about me being a Titoist given that I have not mentioned anything here that would justify the comparison. It seems to be a common element among many here who don't like the way I think, if you don't agree with me just call me a Tito lover and immediately everything I say becomes meaningless. It seems to be the comeback of choice for those who don't have anything of substance to add to a discussion.

Don't blame others for your own shortcomings.

[Buktop]

Don't get all philosophical, Meto and the UMD are the one's who specifically go around claiming to speak on behalf of the Macedonian Diaspora. The Macedonian Diaspora. I am in the Macedonian Diaspora. Get it? Or do you require guidance again?

Who is getting philosophical, you are more upset with a diaspora org than you are with the actual perpetrators of the act who represent Macedonians all over the world.

Don't blame others for your own shortcomings.

You should heed your own advice before you attempt to profess it to others.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Who is getting philosophical, you are more upset with a diaspora org than you are with the actual perpetrators of the act who represent Macedonians all over the world.

I live in the Diaspora, specifically. The UMD claims to represent the Diaspora, specifically. The majority of the Diaspora does not agree with the views of the UMD. That impacts me, as I live in the Diaspora. Knock, knock? Registered yet? Let me know if you need to be taken around the block again.

You should heed your own advice before you attempt to profess it to others.

You're the one performing a public whining because MOST people disagree with your flawed views, or perhaps you like being the drama queen, who cares, really.

[Buktop]

I live in the Diaspora, specifically. The UMD claims to represent the Diaspora, specifically. The majority of the Diaspora does not agree with the views of the UMD. That impacts me, as I live in the Diaspora. Knock, knock? Registered yet? Let me know if you need to be taken around the block again.

And the actions of the Macedonian government don't affect you at all then?

You're the one performing a public whining because MOST people disagree with your flawed views, or perhaps you like being the drama queen, who cares, really.

I could care less if you disagree with me, I am just trying to get you to realize that rather than wasting your time on a small organization and losing the big picture, you should be focusing on the government that perpetuates and facilitates this issue that affects all Macedonians everywhere.

[Soldier of Macedon]

And the actions of the Macedonian government don't affect you at all then?

Is this thread about the Macedonian government or the UMD? Knock, knock....

I am just trying to get you to realize.....

Lol, spare me........

[Buktop]

Is this thread about the Macedonian government or the UMD? Knock, knock....

The discussion within the thread can be about anything

Lol, spare me........

Will do

[Soldier of Macedon]

The discussion within the thread can be about anything

Everytime I mention the UMD you talk about the government. You're on a another planet altogether, and defect of character at this point seems a severe understatement by Risto the Great.

[Buktop]

Everytime I mention the UMD you talk about the government. You're on a another planet altogether, and defect of character at this point seems a severe understatement by Risto the Great.

No, I entered here when you were calling people jokers and loonies, I respect the fact that you don't like the UMD, but name calling doesn't suit you.

In relation to the government, I would like to see the same amount of time and effort you spend on UMD directed towards the government. You don't see AMHRC or MHRMI or any other orgs wasting time calling names and arguing over this type of stuff, they are trying to get results, the best way to prove someone wrong is to do it right yourself, not through criticism or through mudslinging.